Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

You don’t know that it was a 22 week old. No, you do not.

Some women have abortions at 20-22 weeks for doomed pregnancies. They don’t always deliver intact fetuses and those fetuses might be disposed of in ways you’d not approve of. I had a d&c and the contents of my uterus were sent to an incinerator.

This woman was not in a hospital surrounded by medical professionals who had procedures in place for dealing with a miscarriage or stillbirth.

You weren’t there to know the mental state of this woman who gave birth sitting on a toilet. You didn’t see what the contents of the toilet bowl looked like. You have no idea whether the fetus was covered in blood or toilet or diarrhea or vomit and whether she reflexively reached out and flushed. Because you were not there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Look. Having a stillbirth in a toilet and then trying to flush the baby is messed up. You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse the behavior.

I’ve asked this question before— and still haven’t had a straight answer. What exactly do you think she should have done? Is there some general consensus? DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

Personally, I would assume that the hospital has a protocol for handling such a situation. I have no idea what that protocol might be. I do know that I wouldn’t expect someone who just had a miscarriage to have a protocol for handling it. DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Look. Having a stillbirth in a toilet and then trying to flush the baby is messed up. You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse the behavior.

I’ve asked this question before— and still haven’t had a straight answer. What exactly do you think she should have done? Is there some general consensus? DP

Apparently Ohio thinks there are “community standards” as to how this should be handled even though no one on this board can even articulate what this woman should have done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Look. Having a stillbirth in a toilet and then trying to flush the baby is messed up. You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse the behavior.

Spoken like a man who has never had a gush of bodily excretions come out of him as he sits on the toilet. Sometimes I don’t even stand up, I reach back and flush to clear things out before more excretions come out.

Oh is that grossing you out? Now imagine sticking your hand in it to pull out a dead fetus.

Let’s see what your initial instinct is when you experience that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri.

What a colossal d***. It wasn't "put" in a toilet. It was almost certainly delivered there, because many, many, many, many miscarriages happen that way. And then the toilet is a bloody, s*****y mess, and there may well be a placenta in htere, too, and the woman has lost blood, and doesn't have all the medical supplies that a hospital does, and isn't trained on how to dispose of this, and is probably in shock and confused. And for this, some d***w*d who probably failed HS biology thinks she should go to jail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Look. Having a stillbirth in a toilet and then trying to flush the baby is messed up. You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse the behavior.

I’ve asked this question before— and still haven’t had a straight answer. What exactly do you think she should have done? Is there some general consensus? DP

Apparently Ohio thinks there are “community standards” as to how this should be handled even though no one on this board can even articulate what this woman should have done.

And I am very troubled by the idea that a group of all or mostly men, possibly with anti-abortion agendas, will be deciding that their personal “standards” are representative of the “community “.

[Anonymous]

I hope the women of Ohio show up to vocally and visibly protest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Look. Having a stillbirth in a toilet and then trying to flush the baby is messed up. You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse the behavior.

Spoken like a man who has never had a gush of bodily excretions come out of him as he sits on the toilet. Sometimes I don’t even stand up, I reach back and flush to clear things out before more excretions come out.

Oh is that grossing you out? Now imagine sticking your hand in it to pull out a dead fetus.

Let’s see what your initial instinct is when you experience that.

Thank you for this post, PP. Before reading it, I hadn’t really thought much about the imaginations of anti-abortion men who have had abstinence only sex education— if that. I realize that reading about this poor woman, most of us women are imagining severe cramps, emotional turmoil, and something including blood clots and placentas. Meanwhile, some men might be imagining something much less messy, and much closer to a fully formed healthy newborn, and much closer to a hospital birth — since that might be the limits of their own experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri.

What a colossal d***. It wasn't "put" in a toilet. It was almost certainly delivered there, because many, many, many, many miscarriages happen that way. And then the toilet is a bloody, s*****y mess, and there may well be a placenta in htere, too, and the woman has lost blood, and doesn't have all the medical supplies that a hospital does, and isn't trained on how to dispose of this, and is probably in shock and confused. And for this, some d***w*d who probably failed HS biology thinks she should go to jail.

That’s the problem with ignorant men being in charge. They should learn the facts before speaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri.

What a colossal d***. It wasn't "put" in a toilet. It was almost certainly delivered there, because many, many, many, many miscarriages happen that way. And then the toilet is a bloody, s*****y mess, and there may well be a placenta in htere, too, and the woman has lost blood, and doesn't have all the medical supplies that a hospital does, and isn't trained on how to dispose of this, and is probably in shock and confused. And for this, some d***w*d who probably failed HS biology thinks she should go to jail.

I just had the giant lightbulb that this guy literally thinks this woman somehow gave birth on a bed or something, and moved the fetus to the toilet. He has no idea she was sitting on there while her body expelled anything and everything through this process. This is horrifying.

[Anonymous]

here is a simple answer on what to flush, if she had learned this we wouldn't be in this predicament, you don't flush corpses, still births, abortions of any size both for plumbing, legal and humanitarian reasons.

[Anonymous]

To add watch this video, they don't recommend flushing fish as they are too large

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

You don’t know that it was a 22 week old. No, you do not.

Some women have abortions at 20-22 weeks for doomed pregnancies. They don’t always deliver intact fetuses and those fetuses might be disposed of in ways you’d not approve of. I had a d&c and the contents of my uterus were sent to an incinerator.

This woman was not in a hospital surrounded by medical professionals who had procedures in place for dealing with a miscarriage or stillbirth.

You weren’t there to know the mental state of this woman who gave birth sitting on a toilet. You didn’t see what the contents of the toilet bowl looked like. You have no idea whether the fetus was covered in blood or toilet or diarrhea or vomit and whether she reflexively reached out and flushed. Because you were not there.

That what trial is for, all evidence will come in, including here state of mind at the time of the crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:here is a simple answer on what to flush, if she had learned this we wouldn't be in this predicament, you don't flush corpses, still births, abortions of any size both for plumbing, legal and humanitarian reasons.

What should she have done?