Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

“ it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Look. Having a stillbirth in a toilet and then trying to flush the baby is messed up. You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to excuse the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

Welcome to the thread, maybe read it because this has been covered as infinitum.

[Anonymous]

Ladies republicans have written down the plan for women it’s called breeders that is all we are good for


When you vote think about your daughters lives and how you have wasted,only on college because they are not going to be able to have Jo’s

Jesus people they are spewing it out loud start listening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ladies republicans have written down the plan for women it’s called breeders that is all we are good for


When you vote think about your daughters lives and how you have wasted,only on college because they are not going to be able to have Jo’s

Jesus people they are spewing it out loud start listening

Or maybe some people still have standards and think women are better than resorting to flushing a corpse down a toilet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

Did you read the thread? Flushing is common around the world and it's up to THE WOMAN to decide how to dispose of the dead fetus or tissue that comes out of her.

Doctors have flushed pregnancy losses without the patient's permission and the patient got mad, sued, whatever (google it). And that's fine because it should be HER CHOICE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ladies republicans have written down the plan for women it’s called breeders that is all we are good for


When you vote think about your daughters lives and how you have wasted,only on college because they are not going to be able to have Jo’s

Jesus people they are spewing it out loud start listening

Or maybe some people still have standards and think women are better than resorting to flushing a corpse down a toilet?

Bury it in the yard next to my goldfish? Is that what I should do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ladies republicans have written down the plan for women it’s called breeders that is all we are good for


When you vote think about your daughters lives and how you have wasted,only on college because they are not going to be able to have Jo’s

Jesus people they are spewing it out loud start listening

Or maybe some people still have standards and think women are better than resorting to flushing a corpse down a toilet?

We have asked many many times here and no one has explained exactly what she should have done with the already dead fetus that she delivered into the toilet. Who should she have called? Where should she have put it instead? How much would those things have cost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

Your attempt at an analogy was a huge miss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ladies republicans have written down the plan for women it’s called breeders that is all we are good for


When you vote think about your daughters lives and how you have wasted,only on college because they are not going to be able to have Jo’s

Jesus people they are spewing it out loud start listening

Or maybe some people still have standards and think women are better than resorting to flushing a corpse down a toilet?

We have asked many many times here and no one has explained exactly what she should have done with the already dead fetus that she delivered into the toilet. Who should she have called? Where should she have put it instead? How much would those things have cost?

Don't some states make you have an actual funeral for the stillborn? My guess is the police wanted her to pay for a burial plot or urn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

Amen. And not to be too graphic, but here goes.

If the state of Ohio is calling a non-viable fetus a "corpse", please tell me how it is acceptable for a woman to push a "corpse" through her vagina?

Lawmakers need to understand that a woman giving birth or expelling a dead fetus is just in a different situation that any other non pregnant person, dealing with a recently deceased person's body. Sure, if you wake up one morning and you find grandma died in her sleep (or your spouse or child), yes, you need to treat their deceased body with respect and according to community standards.

But women who are carrying a dead fetus? Please put them in a different category. It truly is different when the "corpse" became a "corpse" within your own body, and your body has to expel it. No other time does a person have to push a corpse out of their own body and then be expected to deal with it according to "community standards". Please. Understand that there is a difference here.

This is particularly true in that there seem to be no generally known and widely accepted “community standards” for handling a stillbirth or (later term) miscarriage outside of a medical setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a prosecutor and a woman who has has two miscarriages and an abortion, I can't imagine how these prosecutors think this case is worthy or provable.

How can they prove that she knew the fetus was out of her body when she flushed? Or that she saw it and understood that it was in one piece, for lack of a better term? What if the sensations she was experiencing on the toilet felt like when her membranes ruptured and she didn't know she was in labor?

The Ohio statute criminalizes (as a misdemeanor) treating a corpse in a way that would outrage "reasonable family sensibilities." It is a felony to treat a corpse in a way that would "outrage reasonable community sensibilities." What is the difference between a family sensibility and a community sensibility? More to the point, how does that language put anyone on notice of how to respond to a miscarriage/stillbirth?

There’s likely more to this story than we know. Whenever something sounds a little far fetched it usually is.

My guess is the corpse would have tested positive for drugs.

Since you have nothing to support your “guess”, are you basing your “guess” on your own, personal experiences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

There is a huge difference between a hospital staff member who is licensed and specifically employed in part to handle medical remains (and likely regulations and a heightened duty of care) and a woman who just underwent the physical and mental trauma of a stillbirth in her own home. It’s entirely likely she was sitting on the toilet due to all the blood when she passed the baby. She would have had labor pains with no medication. There is no well defined process for handling the fetus — does she call 911 after being turned away during 2 prior attempts to receive help? What entity is responsible for fishing the fetus from the toilet and … then what?

I agree with PPs that there could be more to this case (although my gut instinct is this is a dangerous path to go down regardless).

But you absolutely cannot compare a medical facility handling a stillborn to an at home stillbirth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say you had a stillbirth at a hospital and later found out the hospital staff tried to flush the 22 week old down the toilet.

Would you sue? Report the event?

I doubt you’d be okay with it. Problem is posters are so emotional about abortion that they can’t logically see how flushing a 22 week old fetus is not okay.

I posted earlier. I’m opposed to abortion on a theoretical level, but I will not condemn this woman for what she did.

She did not have a stillbirth in the hospital because she was turned away twice. She expelled the fetus while on the toilet. What exactly do you think she should have done at that point?