Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

I suspect several families will leave BRYC over this bold move. It is kind of a shame because it would be nice to see how it works out.

[Anonymous]

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I agree CCL will outlast NPL with most of it's clubs staying put. I think NPL and ECNL will eventually have to combine to stay relevant.

Your statement screams ignorance. VPL is a league made by teams in southern VA that wanted better competition, NOVA clubs later joined in. ECNL is specifically to have higher level competition for girls in their latter stages of their youth in order to showcased, scouted, and play in college. The identification for NPL is through the PDP and Id2 programs for individuals, not team focused. For boys, a newly created ENPL will allow teams in NPL's across the nation compete for national level status. It is to compete with USYS National competition and US soccer DA programs. The structure is already in place for ECNL for scouts to come, why would a few girls moving from ECNL to DA disrupt that. Everyone seems to think if you're not in ECNL it's probably because you can't cut it. I a would argue the more elite level of platforms available, the more players will be interested in competing at that level.

VPL was created for better competition ? Isn't that the league that most of the clubs with ECNL and DA put their second tier teams ?

The U.S. soccer federation directly runs the boys and girls DA program. http://www.ussoccerda.com/home.php. Clearly, they also have a national footprint.


Perfectly and accurately stated.
US Club soccer is the parent organization for ECNL, ENPL, and NPL leagues. http://usclubsoccer.org (check the "about" tab). They also run the id2 program. US Club soccer and ECNL have a national footprint, and looks like ENPL will be the same.

US Youth Soccer (http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/) runs ODP and a national league (the Eastern Regional League for this area) -- so a national footprint, although waning in stature, according to folks on this blog. They're the primary national organization for the various youth state leagues (like VYSA http://www.vysa.com) which is why ODP feeds into the US Youth Soccer national league competition/championship. And the state-sponsered State Cup competitions also fall under the US Youth Soccer umbrella.

NCSL and ODSL are local leagues for local clubs, as was WAGS before it was absorbed by NCSL. CCL is a self-described elite league, but it too is local, only serving this region. CCL as a league does not have the nation-wide affiliations, sponsorship, and contacts of the three organizations above. That's why CCL is more likely to wane, and more quickly, than NPL, which has a natural feeder affiliation via US CLub Soccer with the ECNL (girls) and new ENPL (boys) teams.

For what it's worth, VYSA (especially ODP coaching staff) and CCL are very closely tied together, so that may be where CCL goes to try to get some additional juice to compete with other leagues.

This was said before NVSC moved to CCL. I don't think those parents know what they're in for. NVSC is a competitive club, it's small in footprint but not in aspirations. The way I see it few parents commit more than just the practices by the clubs and the several camps provided by MVP. They are going to see right through the CCL myth(and for those that say CCL doesn't consider itself to be an 'Elite' league, why call themselves "Champions'?) and know that games mean nothing, the travel is crazy, the competition drastically falls off after U11 since McLean has a DA at U12 and Arlington has their DA teams starting at U12 too. BRYC left recently, and exclusive to Girls side FCV, McLean, WS Spirit are scouting to make the best DA teams. Loudoun's first team will not consist of their 1st team players. I think US Club Soccer can sniff out an opportunity to convert the NPL in VA to a ENPL and attract more clubs in the area.

Except that 4 NPL clubs feed directly into Girls DA. I don't think PWSI, VSA, CYA or FCV feel particularly compelled to move to CCL. And why would they? Parents with DA aspirations will get their kids into those clubs regardless of where their U Littles play.

Yes and no. VDA is taking from all places, so if you live in the McLean, Fairfax, Vienna area, there's no reason why you wouldn't tryout for a VDA slot. Since there are three clubs for one DA team, I would say it is likely that a lot of talent will stay in club's 1st team throughout the three clubs. Not sure what's going on with the FCV teams, on the boys or girls side. The four teams you mentioned aren't going to CCL, ever.

PWSI was in CCL until they got the DA, and respectfully said since they wouldn't be able to honor the agreement to place their 1st team in CCL, they would have to withdraw. Take note that at that time PWSI only received U13 Boys DA, there was no reason for them to not continue with the rest of their boys in the 1st team and their entire Girl's 1st teams. PWSI read the tea leaves and got out asap, notice that in the press release below McLean lost the DA, they got it back now. Arlington at that time didn't have the DA. CCL cannot claim itself to be the destination where the every team field's their 1st team, it is literally impossible with the rules the DA forces clubs to adhere to.

See press release PWSI leaving CCL, McLean joins: http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-boys/mclean-youth-soccer-va-to-join-club-champions-league-replacing-pwsi/
Arlington gets DA: http://www.arlingtonsoccer.com/13889/
McLean gets U12 DA affiliation: http://www.mcleansoccer.org/Academy_Overview

Since NPL is beneath ECNL within US CLub structure there is no "A team" requirement. So yes, PWSI and FCV will never join CCL. VSA and CYA on the other hand do not have any real stake in DA and can join any league they wish.

I am new to the travel scene and had a question. When these clubs exist the CCL to join other leagues for older ages. Why cant the younger ages remain in the CCL? It looks like that is what Mclean is doing. Is it a cost issue?

CCL requires its clubs to field teams in every age group from U9 to U19. If you don't have teams to play in CCL at the older ages you are not deemed appropriate for membership in CCL. Some clubs are large enough to field teams in both ECNL and CCL (i.e. McLean) but other clubs are not large enough (i.e. BRYC).

Therein lies the problem with the structure of CCL, it's just not attractive for every club to see that the highest level any one of their teams can ever achieve is stellar record in a league that nobody would know of outside of DMV. Others have said that some clubs aren't able to register a team in every age group, at least a competitive one.

I disagree with your bolded statement and can only assume that you don't have any kids who have played at the U14-U18 ages.

For the better CCL clubs (i.e. BRYC, Loudoun, McLean, Arlington, Beach) their older age groups view CCL as an afterthought because many (if not most) of the older teams from those clubs (and some other CCL clubs) are focused on playing in state cup, Eastern Regional League, National League, and of course college showcase tournaments. So almost all of those older CCL teams are in fact playing at a "higher level" than CCL.

Wait, so what I hear you saying is for clubs that field good teams, their players aren't concerned with CCL. I completely agree and would argue that all clubs that are looking into entering CCL would have to keep in mind that their top teams past U12 will not be facing a competitor that is interested in winning. It's almost as if everyone knows that Arlington, Loudoun, McLean don't care about the league, but that's why other clubs would want to join. Certainly NVSC didn't decide to join so they could all drive to Roanoke one day.

BRYC is not in CCL anymore, BTW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. List of ECNL boys clubs is posted here: http://www.boysecnl.com/member-clubs/ Looks like BRYC, Maryland United, and Baltimore Celtic are the only 'local' clubs signed on so far but presumably this list will grow if they gain momentum. These three clubs are in the NE conference so league travel will look a lot like ERL...NY, PA, NJ, CT, etc. I assume they'll bundle matches geographically the way they do on the girls' side so you play two clubs per weekend when you travel out of state.

Sounds like EDP, if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect several families will leave BRYC over this bold move. It is kind of a shame because it would be nice to see how it works out.

I believe many will as I already know several that plan to look elsewhere after the current season is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect several families will leave BRYC over this bold move. It is kind of a shame because it would be nice to see how it works out.

I believe many will as I already know several that plan to look elsewhere after the current season is over.

I hope they do so my 'C' team son can have a chance. I am looking for quality training and can find him some soccer league somewhere else to give him his 'fix' for games. I am not a troll, I love my son but he has not had the best training from our current club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect several families will leave BRYC over this bold move. It is kind of a shame because it would be nice to see how it works out.

I believe many will as I already know several that plan to look elsewhere after the current season is over.

I can see both sides of it. If you want to train with an elite club and or more geared towards the future that might be the path to take. Granted one drawback I see if what if you dont make the team when it converges to a one team only model.

Other side being that you want solid training and the kids enjoy the competitiveness of the games..regardless of league (ccl, ncsl).

I personally like the latter. Who knows what will happen at u11/u12. Kids might get bored and want to do something else. Imagine that investment and not even bother to make it to an ECNL team. Am I on the right path here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect several families will leave BRYC over this bold move. It is kind of a shame because it would be nice to see how it works out.

I believe many will as I already know several that plan to look elsewhere after the current season is over.

I can see both sides of it. If you want to train with an elite club and or more geared towards the future that might be the path to take. Granted one drawback I see if what if you dont make the team when it converges to a one team only model.

Other side being that you want solid training and the kids enjoy the competitiveness of the games..regardless of league (ccl, ncsl).

I personally like the latter. Who knows what will happen at u11/u12. Kids might get bored and want to do something else. Imagine that investment and not even bother to make it to an ECNL team. Am I on the right path here?

This also assumes that their training is great at the U littles. I personally believe it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Since NPL is beneath ECNL within US CLub structure there is no "A team" requirement. So yes, PWSI and FCV will never join CCL. VSA and CYA on the other hand do not have any real stake in DA and can join any league they wish.

I am new to the travel scene and had a question. When these clubs exist the CCL to join other leagues for older ages. Why cant the younger ages remain in the CCL? It looks like that is what Mclean is doing. Is it a cost issue?

CCL requires its clubs to field teams in every age group from U9 to U19. If you don't have teams to play in CCL at the older ages you are not deemed appropriate for membership in CCL. Some clubs are large enough to field teams in both ECNL and CCL (i.e. McLean) but other clubs are not large enough (i.e. BRYC).



Makes sense thank you. So what do other smaller clubs that are in ECNL for pre U13?

In the case of BRYC, the U Little will not play in any league starting next year, 2017-18, and will be a tournament only club. Presumably they will scrimmage against other clubs but the sub U13 teams will focus on development and training over league play.



I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

I agree CCL will outlast NPL with most of it's clubs staying put. I think NPL and ECNL will eventually have to combine to stay relevant.

Your statement screams ignorance. VPL is a league made by teams in southern VA that wanted better competition, NOVA clubs later joined in. ECNL is specifically to have higher level competition for girls in their latter stages of their youth in order to showcased, scouted, and play in college. The identification for NPL is through the PDP and Id2 programs for individuals, not team focused. For boys, a newly created ENPL will allow teams in NPL's across the nation compete for national level status. It is to compete with USYS National competition and US soccer DA programs. The structure is already in place for ECNL for scouts to come, why would a few girls moving from ECNL to DA disrupt that. Everyone seems to think if you're not in ECNL it's probably because you can't cut it. I a would argue the more elite level of platforms available, the more players will be interested in competing at that level.

VPL was created for better competition ? Isn't that the league that most of the clubs with ECNL and DA put their second tier teams ?

The U.S. soccer federation directly runs the boys and girls DA program. http://www.ussoccerda.com/home.php. Clearly, they also have a national footprint.


Perfectly and accurately stated.
US Club soccer is the parent organization for ECNL, ENPL, and NPL leagues. http://usclubsoccer.org (check the "about" tab). They also run the id2 program. US Club soccer and ECNL have a national footprint, and looks like ENPL will be the same.

US Youth Soccer (http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/) runs ODP and a national league (the Eastern Regional League for this area) -- so a national footprint, although waning in stature, according to folks on this blog. They're the primary national organization for the various youth state leagues (like VYSA http://www.vysa.com) which is why ODP feeds into the US Youth Soccer national league competition/championship. And the state-sponsered State Cup competitions also fall under the US Youth Soccer umbrella.

NCSL and ODSL are local leagues for local clubs, as was WAGS before it was absorbed by NCSL. CCL is a self-described elite league, but it too is local, only serving this region. CCL as a league does not have the nation-wide affiliations, sponsorship, and contacts of the three organizations above. That's why CCL is more likely to wane, and more quickly, than NPL, which has a natural feeder affiliation via US CLub Soccer with the ECNL (girls) and new ENPL (boys) teams.

For what it's worth, VYSA (especially ODP coaching staff) and CCL are very closely tied together, so that may be where CCL goes to try to get some additional juice to compete with other leagues.

This was said before NVSC moved to CCL. I don't think those parents know what they're in for. NVSC is a competitive club, it's small in footprint but not in aspirations. The way I see it few parents commit more than just the practices by the clubs and the several camps provided by MVP. They are going to see right through the CCL myth(and for those that say CCL doesn't consider itself to be an 'Elite' league, why call themselves "Champions'?) and know that games mean nothing, the travel is crazy, the competition drastically falls off after U11 since McLean has a DA at U12 and Arlington has their DA teams starting at U12 too. BRYC left recently, and exclusive to Girls side FCV, McLean, WS Spirit are scouting to make the best DA teams. Loudoun's first team will not consist of their 1st team players. I think US Club Soccer can sniff out an opportunity to convert the NPL in VA to a ENPL and attract more clubs in the area.

Except that 4 NPL clubs feed directly into Girls DA. I don't think PWSI, VSA, CYA or FCV feel particularly compelled to move to CCL. And why would they? Parents with DA aspirations will get their kids into those clubs regardless of where their U Littles play.

Yes and no. VDA is taking from all places, so if you live in the McLean, Fairfax, Vienna area, there's no reason why you wouldn't tryout for a VDA slot. Since there are three clubs for one DA team, I would say it is likely that a lot of talent will stay in club's 1st team throughout the three clubs. Not sure what's going on with the FCV teams, on the boys or girls side. The four teams you mentioned aren't going to CCL, ever.

PWSI was in CCL until they got the DA, and respectfully said since they wouldn't be able to honor the agreement to place their 1st team in CCL, they would have to withdraw. Take note that at that time PWSI only received U13 Boys DA, there was no reason for them to not continue with the rest of their boys in the 1st team and their entire Girl's 1st teams. PWSI read the tea leaves and got out asap, notice that in the press release below McLean lost the DA, they got it back now. Arlington at that time didn't have the DA. CCL cannot claim itself to be the destination where the every team field's their 1st team, it is literally impossible with the rules the DA forces clubs to adhere to.

See press release PWSI leaving CCL, McLean joins: http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-boys/mclean-youth-soccer-va-to-join-club-champions-league-replacing-pwsi/
Arlington gets DA: http://www.arlingtonsoccer.com/13889/
McLean gets U12 DA affiliation: http://www.mcleansoccer.org/Academy_Overview

Since NPL is beneath ECNL within US CLub structure there is no "A team" requirement. So yes, PWSI and FCV will never join CCL. VSA and CYA on the other hand do not have any real stake in DA and can join any league they wish.

I am new to the travel scene and had a question. When these clubs exist the CCL to join other leagues for older ages. Why cant the younger ages remain in the CCL? It looks like that is what Mclean is doing. Is it a cost issue?

CCL requires its clubs to field teams in every age group from U9 to U19. If you don't have teams to play in CCL at the older ages you are not deemed appropriate for membership in CCL. Some clubs are large enough to field teams in both ECNL and CCL (i.e. McLean) but other clubs are not large enough (i.e. BRYC).

Therein lies the problem with the structure of CCL, it's just not attractive for every club to see that the highest level any one of their teams can ever achieve is stellar record in a league that nobody would know of outside of DMV. Others have said that some clubs aren't able to register a team in every age group, at least a competitive one.

I disagree with your bolded statement and can only assume that you don't have any kids who have played at the U14-U18 ages.

For the better CCL clubs (i.e. BRYC, Loudoun, McLean, Arlington, Beach) their older age groups view CCL as an afterthought because many (if not most) of the older teams from those clubs (and some other CCL clubs) are focused on playing in state cup, Eastern Regional League, National League, and of course college showcase tournaments. So almost all of those older CCL teams are in fact playing at a "higher level" than CCL.

Wait, so what I hear you saying is for clubs that field good teams, their players aren't concerned with CCL. I completely agree and would argue that all clubs that are looking into entering CCL would have to keep in mind that their top teams past U12 will not be facing a competitor that is interested in winning. It's almost as if everyone knows that Arlington, Loudoun, McLean don't care about the league, but that's why other clubs would want to join. Certainly NVSC didn't decide to join so they could all drive to Roanoke one day.

BRYC is not in CCL anymore, BTW.

BRYC is most definitely still in CCL. My BRYC kid has lots of CCL games scheduled for this spring. BRYC will not be in CCL for the fall of 2017.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


In the case of BRYC, the U Little will not play in any league starting next year, 2017-18, and will be a tournament only club. Presumably they will scrimmage against other clubs but the sub U13 teams will focus on development and training over league play.

I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

My DD played a year of that model as a U-little a few years back, mostly development with some ad-hoc games, and the tournaments. Competitive play suffered, I think, because of lack of purpose. The more competitive, self motivated girls did fine, but many others on the team seemed to mail it in. They unanimously wanted to re-enter a real league the following season and did better. I think you need the competitive part to make it work. Maybe they're entering 5-6 tournaments per half season instead of the more typical 2-3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Since NPL is beneath ECNL within US CLub structure there is no "A team" requirement. So yes, PWSI and FCV will never join CCL. VSA and CYA on the other hand do not have any real stake in DA and can join any league they wish.

I am new to the travel scene and had a question. When these clubs exist the CCL to join other leagues for older ages. Why cant the younger ages remain in the CCL? It looks like that is what Mclean is doing. Is it a cost issue?

CCL requires its clubs to field teams in every age group from U9 to U19. If you don't have teams to play in CCL at the older ages you are not deemed appropriate for membership in CCL. Some clubs are large enough to field teams in both ECNL and CCL (i.e. McLean) but other clubs are not large enough (i.e. BRYC).

Makes sense thank you. So what do other smaller clubs that are in ECNL for pre U13?

In the case of BRYC, the U Little will not play in any league starting next year, 2017-18, and will be a tournament only club. Presumably they will scrimmage against other clubs but the sub U13 teams will focus on development and training over league play.



I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

Not sure I agree. I will counter that with it depends on if you are grooming a college player or just have a player that is good that wants to compete. I understand that league games may not be important for development but you have to keep the kids interested. My 2cents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

Not sure I agree. I will counter that with it depends on if you are grooming a college player or just have a player that is good that wants to compete. I understand that league games may not be important for development but you have to keep the kids interested. My 2cents

+1

Kids want to play games. I've seen kids drop out of soccer after their parents push them into the McLean U8 junior program for a year, and I'm sure plenty of kids won't be interested in playing only tournaments.

And, as others have already said, some older BRYC kids will drop out because of the increased commitment of time and money.

Besides -- who's really going to make the case that tournaments are better than weekly games for development? Everything we're told points to the opposite. The DA is built on the premise of training more and playing less (but obviously still playing a substantial amount).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

Not sure I agree. I will counter that with it depends on if you are grooming a college player or just have a player that is good that wants to compete. I understand that league games may not be important for development but you have to keep the kids interested. My 2cents

+1

Kids want to play games. I've seen kids drop out of soccer after their parents push them into the McLean U8 junior program for a year, and I'm sure plenty of kids won't be interested in playing only tournaments.

And, as others have already said, some older BRYC kids will drop out because of the increased commitment of time and money.

Besides -- who's really going to make the case that tournaments are better than weekly games for development? Everything we're told points to the opposite. The DA is built on the premise of training more and playing less (but obviously still playing a substantial amount).

Agreed also. We saw in the previous threads pwsi is in the ncsl after the failed experiment of the ydl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

Not sure I agree. I will counter that with it depends on if you are grooming a college player or just have a player that is good that wants to compete. I understand that league games may not be important for development but you have to keep the kids interested. My 2cents

+1

Kids want to play games. I've seen kids drop out of soccer after their parents push them into the McLean U8 junior program for a year, and I'm sure plenty of kids won't be interested in playing only tournaments.

And, as others have already said, some older BRYC kids will drop out because of the increased commitment of time and money.

Besides -- who's really going to make the case that tournaments are better than weekly games for development? Everything we're told points to the opposite. The DA is built on the premise of training more and playing less (but obviously still playing a substantial amount).

The younger BRYC players aren't entirely becoming a tourney only group. They intend to schedule 7ish "scrimmages" per season. The scrimmages will be with refs and regular game rules. They mentioned the names of several ccl clubs that have expressed interest. They also intend to have the scrimmages scheduled by this summer. IMO, if they get these scheduled - then the non league model will work- if not there will likely be more than a few upset parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'll be taking my U little elsewhere.

You will likely regret it -- development training is much more important than playing league games at the U little ages (unless you don't care how good a player your kid will become).

Not sure I agree. I will counter that with it depends on if you are grooming a college player or just have a player that is good that wants to compete. I understand that league games may not be important for development but you have to keep the kids interested. My 2cents

+1

Kids want to play games. I've seen kids drop out of soccer after their parents push them into the McLean U8 junior program for a year, and I'm sure plenty of kids won't be interested in playing only tournaments.

And, as others have already said, some older BRYC kids will drop out because of the increased commitment of time and money.

Besides -- who's really going to make the case that tournaments are better than weekly games for development? Everything we're told points to the opposite. The DA is built on the premise of training more and playing less (but obviously still playing a substantial amount).

The younger BRYC players aren't entirely becoming a tourney only group. They intend to schedule 7ish "scrimmages" per season. The scrimmages will be with refs and regular game rules. They mentioned the names of several ccl clubs that have expressed interest. They also intend to have the scrimmages scheduled by this summer. IMO, if they get these scheduled - then the non league model will work- if not there will likely be more than a few upset parents.

Hope it works for them but the issue I see is the other CCL clubs will already be involved in league play. And if they are downplaying competitive games why setup these scrimmages to replace the games. At a minimum they should put them in the ncsl.