Official TJ Admissions Decisions Results for the Class of 2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You hit the nail on the head here. And while they talk a good game about “improving the pipeline” and “raising the quality in K-8” - which all progressives also agree is necessary - the reality of it is that the status quo folks don’t want the increased competition for elite college admissions that will come from providing opportunities for these underrepresented groups in environments like TJ.

They know that investing in the pipeline is a massive effort that will take decades - by which point their manufactured superstars will have exited that pipeline.

How the F do you know what people advocating the status quo want? I am so sick of people arguing based only on claims that their opponents have evil intent. Make real arguments for a change. The proponents for the status quo are simply arguing that the newly admitted are likely under prepared and the result will be they will wash out or TJ's education will be watered down. If the status quo folks were interested in college admissions, most would be better off in their base high school.
The "progressives" have been in charge of FCPS for years. If they actually wanted to improve the the pipeline for all of K-8, they have had their chance. They have failed.

I think that proponents of the "status quo" might be uncomfortable with the whole idea of a status quo, and see increased use of non-academic criteria and unclear weighting of criteria as a way of allowing a less flexible status quo (from the POV of students and families) to form. Maybe they take the admissions changes at face value - as a play by people who despise objectivity, merit, and individuality, but thirst for controversy and more effective excuses to write off abusive behavior. Maybe they're aware that a system that uses GPA to cast a broader net and essays to create wiggle room will give the school system the flexibility to doctor results and exclude people due to prejudice or corruption - yes of course we'd expect admissions to show good FARMS and URM numbers for now, if the school system's motivation is to convince people that it accomplishes that goal. Maybe they're worried that the school system has been mostly callous about the geniuses that TJ is supposed to serve, meaning that the hypothetical Black or Hispanic genius who might have been mislabeled as a problem in school because they were frustrated with its inanity might still go unrecognized. Maybe they're just a gosh darn Asian or an Eastern European immigrant, and they see this as a different kind of discrimination.

So many good reasons. None of which have anything to do with being anti-TJ resource sharing, anti-soft science, anti-progress, anti-URM, or anti-wasted prep investment.

I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

Save your breath. PP is just a troll latching onto the prep classes and making them a bigger deal than they actually are. It has been explained ad nauseam to PP that crushing the TJ tests would only grant semifinalist status, along with 1000+ other kids. Then, you still have to be selected for TJ based on your GPA, coursework, teacher recommendations, essays, etc. In the old system, no one was getting admitted who wasn't also a very impressive student in general.

People are latching onto the 130 Curie kids who got in as evidence of prep, but that's misleading. For one thing, a decent number of the kids who prepped there would have gotten in even without the prep. Their families value TJ enough to leave no stone unturned in the process of getting in. For another, it's doubtful that all 130 of those kids who were listed took intensive TJ prep. Many of them might have taken just a single summer camp class or enrichment math class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You hit the nail on the head here. And while they talk a good game about “improving the pipeline” and “raising the quality in K-8” - which all progressives also agree is necessary - the reality of it is that the status quo folks don’t want the increased competition for elite college admissions that will come from providing opportunities for these underrepresented groups in environments like TJ.

They know that investing in the pipeline is a massive effort that will take decades - by which point their manufactured superstars will have exited that pipeline.

How the F do you know what people advocating the status quo want? I am so sick of people arguing based only on claims that their opponents have evil intent. Make real arguments for a change. The proponents for the status quo are simply arguing that the newly admitted are likely under prepared and the result will be they will wash out or TJ's education will be watered down. If the status quo folks were interested in college admissions, most would be better off in their base high school.
The "progressives" have been in charge of FCPS for years. If they actually wanted to improve the the pipeline for all of K-8, they have had their chance. They have failed.

I think that proponents of the "status quo" might be uncomfortable with the whole idea of a status quo, and see increased use of non-academic criteria and unclear weighting of criteria as a way of allowing a less flexible status quo (from the POV of students and families) to form. Maybe they take the admissions changes at face value - as a play by people who despise objectivity, merit, and individuality, but thirst for controversy and more effective excuses to write off abusive behavior. Maybe they're aware that a system that uses GPA to cast a broader net and essays to create wiggle room will give the school system the flexibility to doctor results and exclude people due to prejudice or corruption - yes of course we'd expect admissions to show good FARMS and URM numbers for now, if the school system's motivation is to convince people that it accomplishes that goal. Maybe they're worried that the school system has been mostly callous about the geniuses that TJ is supposed to serve, meaning that the hypothetical Black or Hispanic genius who might have been mislabeled as a problem in school because they were frustrated with its inanity might still go unrecognized. Maybe they're just a gosh darn Asian or an Eastern European immigrant, and they see this as a different kind of discrimination.

So many good reasons. None of which have anything to do with being anti-TJ resource sharing, anti-soft science, anti-progress, anti-URM, or anti-wasted prep investment.

I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

I don't know. I mean one single prep center accounts for something like 30% of the entering class, and there are many other prep centers so it seems likely that the majority of students who were admitted needed prep to make the cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

Save your breath. PP is just a troll latching onto the prep classes and making them a bigger deal than they actually are. It has been explained ad nauseam to PP that crushing the TJ tests would only grant semifinalist status, along with 1000+ other kids. Then, you still have to be selected for TJ based on your GPA, coursework, teacher recommendations, essays, etc. In the old system, no one was getting admitted who wasn't also a very impressive student in general.

People are latching onto the 130 Curie kids who got in as evidence of prep, but that's misleading. For one thing, a decent number of the kids who prepped there would have gotten in even without the prep. Their families value TJ enough to leave no stone unturned in the process of getting in. For another, it's doubtful that all 130 of those kids who were listed took intensive TJ prep. Many of them might have taken just a single summer camp class or enrichment math class.

The problem is the feeling that stats like this reasonably create that one NEEDS to invest in prep in order to have any hope of success. And that feeling, without doubt, has caused many very worthwhile TJ applicants to not apply in the first place.

Part of the reason that a place like Curie publishes the names of their 133 successful applicants in the Class of 2024 is to create demand for their services - to create that NEED that families feel. If a side benefit of that need is that families unwilling to spend $5K decide not to apply, so much the better - less competition for their clientele.

The deeper you go, the more insidious the model is and the more evidence you see that the idea of a standardized test as a level playing field is completely laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

Save your breath. PP is just a troll latching onto the prep classes and making them a bigger deal than they actually are. It has been explained ad nauseam to PP that crushing the TJ tests would only grant semifinalist status, along with 1000+ other kids. Then, you still have to be selected for TJ based on your GPA, coursework, teacher recommendations, essays, etc. In the old system, no one was getting admitted who wasn't also a very impressive student in general.

People are latching onto the 130 Curie kids who got in as evidence of prep, but that's misleading. For one thing, a decent number of the kids who prepped there would have gotten in even without the prep. Their families value TJ enough to leave no stone unturned in the process of getting in. For another, it's doubtful that all 130 of those kids who were listed took intensive TJ prep. Many of them might have taken just a single summer camp class or enrichment math class.

The problem is the feeling that stats like this reasonably create that one NEEDS to invest in prep in order to have any hope of success. And that feeling, without doubt, has caused many very worthwhile TJ applicants to not apply in the first place.

Part of the reason that a place like Curie publishes the names of their 133 successful applicants in the Class of 2024 is to create demand for their services - to create that NEED that families feel. If a side benefit of that need is that families unwilling to spend $5K decide not to apply, so much the better - less competition for their clientele.

The deeper you go, the more insidious the model is and the more evidence you see that the idea of a standardized test as a level playing field is completely laughable.

Of course one has to prep, only who are willing to work harder should get the reward. This is applicable anywhere, not just tj.

[Anonymous]

Fools trying to rationalize their way around new preferential treatment policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fools trying to rationalize their way around new preferential treatment policy.

BINGO! It's always been about maintaining an unfair advantage to ensure preferential treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fools trying to rationalize their way around new preferential treatment policy.

BINGO! It's always been about maintaining an unfair advantage to ensure preferential treatment.

What was TJ's FARMs rate before this year? Is that because poor people are lazy or not smart or is it because poor people are not able to afford prep classes and math competition prep and STEM activities to list on their applications? Or to write about in their essay to show how much they love STEM?

The application process needs to be fair to all applicants. That means that any test needs to be something that only includes material taught at all MS. Yes, people could prep for such a test but realistically speaking any kid who did well in Algebra and Geometry should do fine on such a test. That means only including STEM activities that could be completed at school and not outside activities.

When you make large portions of the application susceptible to being swayed by opportunities that require an expenditure of money (Prep classes, after school programs and the like) or an expenditure of time to get kids to and from events (prep classes, after school programs), or an expenditure of transportation you greatly decrease the ability of people with less money to be competitive. That is not merit, that is money.

I fully expect the people who benefited under the old system to complain, change is hard and it is really hard when you are impacted by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

Save your breath. PP is just a troll latching onto the prep classes and making them a bigger deal than they actually are. It has been explained ad nauseam to PP that crushing the TJ tests would only grant semifinalist status, along with 1000+ other kids. Then, you still have to be selected for TJ based on your GPA, coursework, teacher recommendations, essays, etc. In the old system, no one was getting admitted who wasn't also a very impressive student in general.

People are latching onto the 130 Curie kids who got in as evidence of prep, but that's misleading. For one thing, a decent number of the kids who prepped there would have gotten in even without the prep. Their families value TJ enough to leave no stone unturned in the process of getting in. For another, it's doubtful that all 130 of those kids who were listed took intensive TJ prep. Many of them might have taken just a single summer camp class or enrichment math class.

+1

The old system is much more comprehensive and wholistic. The test was only one part of the equation to ensure a foundational competency is met. The real evaluation is after the semi-finalist round. If the old test itself needs improvement -- e.g. only covering middle school material; or not repeatable -- it can be fixed easily. A long time well respected math teacher offered to rewrite the test for free. FCPS's 'reform' was not aimed at improving the test. Scott Brabrand said publicly that it was prompted by George Floyd. It's a social experiment.

The 'currie' posts are just more trolling. A loose correlation does not mean cause and effect. All NBA players have eaten burgers at least one time or regularly. Going to McDoanld's does not guarantee being drafted by NBA. Again the 'reform' was not aimed at addressing "prep". If it were, the solution would be another easy one - just offering free prep class after school. In fact many schools do offer them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

Save your breath. PP is just a troll latching onto the prep classes and making them a bigger deal than they actually are. It has been explained ad nauseam to PP that crushing the TJ tests would only grant semifinalist status, along with 1000+ other kids. Then, you still have to be selected for TJ based on your GPA, coursework, teacher recommendations, essays, etc. In the old system, no one was getting admitted who wasn't also a very impressive student in general.

People are latching onto the 130 Curie kids who got in as evidence of prep, but that's misleading. For one thing, a decent number of the kids who prepped there would have gotten in even without the prep. Their families value TJ enough to leave no stone unturned in the process of getting in. For another, it's doubtful that all 130 of those kids who were listed took intensive TJ prep. Many of them might have taken just a single summer camp class or enrichment math class.

+1

The old system is much more comprehensive and wholistic. The test was only one part of the equation to ensure a foundational competency is met. The real evaluation is after the semi-finalist round. If the old test itself needs improvement -- e.g. only covering middle school material; or not repeatable -- it can be fixed easily. A long time well respected math teacher offered to rewrite the test for free. FCPS's 'reform' was not aimed at improving the test. Scott Brabrand said publicly that it was prompted by George Floyd. It's a social experiment.

The 'currie' posts are just more trolling. A loose correlation does not mean cause and effect. All NBA players have eaten burgers at least one time or regularly. Going to McDoanld's does not guarantee being drafted by NBA. Again the 'reform' was not aimed at addressing "prep". If it were, the solution would be another easy one - just offering free prep class after school. In fact many schools do offer them.

Just give it a chance

[Anonymous]

There are two or three troll posts/threads here

1) Defund AAP/get rid of TJ
2) Currie and all prep is awful. All kids are prepped
3) Anyone wanting to change TJ admissions is racist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that's it. Because the status quo isn't about merit at all, but about who spends the most on prep classes which is a real problem since the majority of spots go to wealth families who spend the most on prep and often exclude genuinely talented students who simply didn't take prep classes.

Spending on prep classes doesn't guarantee admission to TJ, you can only take the horse to the water. How many percentage of students who prepped would have got in, do you think it is 100%. Also going to TJ for average student isn't worth it as college admissions only looks at grades. Let us see how the students fare this year.

Save your breath. PP is just a troll latching onto the prep classes and making them a bigger deal than they actually are. It has been explained ad nauseam to PP that crushing the TJ tests would only grant semifinalist status, along with 1000+ other kids. Then, you still have to be selected for TJ based on your GPA, coursework, teacher recommendations, essays, etc. In the old system, no one was getting admitted who wasn't also a very impressive student in general.

People are latching onto the 130 Curie kids who got in as evidence of prep, but that's misleading. For one thing, a decent number of the kids who prepped there would have gotten in even without the prep. Their families value TJ enough to leave no stone unturned in the process of getting in. For another, it's doubtful that all 130 of those kids who were listed took intensive TJ prep. Many of them might have taken just a single summer camp class or enrichment math class.

+1

The old system is much more comprehensive and wholistic. The test was only one part of the equation to ensure a foundational competency is met. The real evaluation is after the semi-finalist round. If the old test itself needs improvement -- e.g. only covering middle school material; or not repeatable -- it can be fixed easily. A long time well respected math teacher offered to rewrite the test for free. FCPS's 'reform' was not aimed at improving the test. Scott Brabrand said publicly that it was prompted by George Floyd. It's a social experiment.

The 'currie' posts are just more trolling. A loose correlation does not mean cause and effect. All NBA players have eaten burgers at least one time or regularly. Going to McDoanld's does not guarantee being drafted by NBA. Again the 'reform' was not aimed at addressing "prep". If it were, the solution would be another easy one - just offering free prep class after school. In fact many schools do offer them.

The test was so easy almost everyone received better than 90/100 and many received 97 or better. They made the test so easy to help URMs pass this easy test and URMs benefited from the easy material and grading of the tests. Most applicants would have passed the low threshold for the old test and prepping probably allowed most kids to go from 90-92 to 98-100. They would have easily passed without the prep centers.

[Anonymous]

Looking at the TJHSST Admissions Experience Factors by EduAvenues/TJTestPrep stats from https://www.tjtestprep.com/data, what will be the graduation rate of the class of 2025? TJ claims to have 100% graduation rate in the past. (https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/virginia/districts/fairfax-county-public-schools-109481).

Schools such Langley, Mclean, Marshall, Woodson, Chantilly, and Oakton all have less than 100% graduation rates because these schools were already including the URMs, ED, ELL, Special Ed categories that TJ has newly included. Does this mean that going forward, TJ will be just another average school in FFx county?

URMS - 24.5%
Economically Disadvantaged - 35.7%
ELL - 31.5%
Special Ed - 27.7%
Private / Home School - 10.2%
Public School - 18.5%
Overall 18.1%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What was TJ's FARMs rate before this year? Is that because poor people are lazy or not smart or is it because poor people are not able to afford prep classes and math competition prep and STEM activities to list on their applications? Or to write about in their essay to show how much they love STEM?

The application process needs to be fair to all applicants. That means that any test needs to be something that only includes material taught at all MS. Yes, people could prep for such a test but realistically speaking any kid who did well in Algebra and Geometry should do fine on such a test. That means only including STEM activities that could be completed at school and not outside activities.

Great. Every child in FCPS has the opportunity to take Geometry in 8th grade without any prep or outside help. All they need to do is listen well in 5th and 6th grade advanced math and be smart at math. There's no reason at all to be taking 8th grade Algebra I kids unless that middle school doesn't have enough Geometry kids. Also, every single middle school offers some free STEM after school activities (even with a late bus!). There should be an effort to expand those activities at the lower income middle schools. There's still no reason that kids who claim to be interested in STEM wouldn't be able to do any of the free after school STEM clubs. I have zero problem with allocating 1.5% of the seats to each middle school. I have no problem with trying to limit tests and credit given for STEM interest to things available at the school. I have a huge problem with making the TJ application so scant that there's no way to identify the academic superstars, nor is there a way to identify the kids that will likely struggle at and ultimately wash out of TJ.

For the first point, if the large number of FARMS kids admitted to TJ actually are poor and not just self-reported "poor" kids, I hope they aren't being set up for failure. Graduating in the bottom 1/4 of TJ or washing out of TJ will lead to much worse college offers and scholarships than staying at the base school and being in the top 10% there. Aside from the super gifted kids, doing well at TJ takes a lot of time and resources that poor kids are unlikely to have.

[Anonymous]

You do realize the TJ admissions process was upended by a bunch of politically motivated School Board members who'd be hard-pressed by pass Algebra I and a motley collection of TJ's least impressive alumni known as the "TJ Alumni Action Group."

Throwing Asians under the bus is their specialty.