Official TJ Admissions Decisions Results for the Class of 2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What was TJ's FARMs rate before this year? Is that because poor people are lazy or not smart or is it because poor people are not able to afford prep classes and math competition prep and STEM activities to list on their applications? Or to write about in their essay to show how much they love STEM?

The application process needs to be fair to all applicants. That means that any test needs to be something that only includes material taught at all MS. Yes, people could prep for such a test but realistically speaking any kid who did well in Algebra and Geometry should do fine on such a test. That means only including STEM activities that could be completed at school and not outside activities.

Great. Every child in FCPS has the opportunity to take Geometry in 8th grade without any prep or outside help. All they need to do is listen well in 5th and 6th grade advanced math and be smart at math. There's no reason at all to be taking 8th grade Algebra I kids unless that middle school doesn't have enough Geometry kids. Also, every single middle school offers some free STEM after school activities (even with a late bus!). There should be an effort to expand those activities at the lower income middle schools. There's still no reason that kids who claim to be interested in STEM wouldn't be able to do any of the free after school STEM clubs. I have zero problem with allocating 1.5% of the seats to each middle school. I have no problem with trying to limit tests and credit given for STEM interest to things available at the school. I have a huge problem with making the TJ application so scant that there's no way to identify the academic superstars, nor is there a way to identify the kids that will likely struggle at and ultimately wash out of TJ.

For the first point, if the large number of FARMS kids admitted to TJ actually are poor and not just self-reported "poor" kids, I hope they aren't being set up for failure. Graduating in the bottom 1/4 of TJ or washing out of TJ will lead to much worse college offers and scholarships than staying at the base school and being in the top 10% there. Aside from the super gifted kids, doing well at TJ takes a lot of time and resources that poor kids are unlikely to have.

And yet it seems only students who take prep these days get admitted which makes your point kind of moot. Do you think it's all the coaching for the essay or the constant drills on the test portion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What was TJ's FARMs rate before this year? Is that because poor people are lazy or not smart or is it because poor people are not able to afford prep classes and math competition prep and STEM activities to list on their applications? Or to write about in their essay to show how much they love STEM?

The application process needs to be fair to all applicants. That means that any test needs to be something that only includes material taught at all MS. Yes, people could prep for such a test but realistically speaking any kid who did well in Algebra and Geometry should do fine on such a test. That means only including STEM activities that could be completed at school and not outside activities.

Great. Every child in FCPS has the opportunity to take Geometry in 8th grade without any prep or outside help. All they need to do is listen well in 5th and 6th grade advanced math and be smart at math. There's no reason at all to be taking 8th grade Algebra I kids unless that middle school doesn't have enough Geometry kids. Also, every single middle school offers some free STEM after school activities (even with a late bus!). There should be an effort to expand those activities at the lower income middle schools. There's still no reason that kids who claim to be interested in STEM wouldn't be able to do any of the free after school STEM clubs. I have zero problem with allocating 1.5% of the seats to each middle school. I have no problem with trying to limit tests and credit given for STEM interest to things available at the school. I have a huge problem with making the TJ application so scant that there's no way to identify the academic superstars, nor is there a way to identify the kids that will likely struggle at and ultimately wash out of TJ.

For the first point, if the large number of FARMS kids admitted to TJ actually are poor and not just self-reported "poor" kids, I hope they aren't being set up for failure. Graduating in the bottom 1/4 of TJ or washing out of TJ will lead to much worse college offers and scholarships than staying at the base school and being in the top 10% there. Aside from the super gifted kids, doing well at TJ takes a lot of time and resources that poor kids are unlikely to have.

I have no clue how the schools determined the top 1.5% of each middle school. You would think that the academic super stars would have been in that category. Clearly I have no problem with setting the bar with Geometry, I include that in my exam. But I don't think that Algebra II is an automatic acceptance just like I don't think high test scores are an automatic acceptance into AAP.

The issue with extra curricular activities starts before MS. My kids ES has a Math Olympiad team, Chess, Coding, Robotics, and the like. He will have a leg up on any kid who is just gaining access to those clubs at Carson if he chooses to participate because he has been participating in similar clubs/programs since he was in kindergarten.

We cannot fix the problems with education that are tied to poverty, I am not pretending that we can create a perfect system. But we can look at how we choose to allocate spots at our magnet schools that takes into consideration the lack of equal opportunities. And that means that many of the programs that people point to as examples of kids who are into STEM and are high achieving need to be explored because they are not available in the schools during the school day. A kid who has not been exposed to STEM in ES should not be deprived a spot at TJ because they are just learning about STEM in MS and have not had the chance to develop the skills that would allow them to participate or earn spots on STEM teams in MS.

It is not that kids who have participated in these various activities have not worked hard, it is that many kids don't have the same opportunities to have participated. It is not that the kids who have participated do not have good reasons and credentials for attending TJ but that a significant percentage of kids don't have the opportunity to gain those same credentials.

If TJ served only schools with low FARMs rates, then it's current balance would be fine. Kids from MC and UMC ES have access to many of these clubs and opportunities through their ES and in other areas. But TJ serves all of FCPS and there are plenty of places were kids don't have those options in ES.

NY system works, regardless of the ethnic profile, because they have found a way to reach out to kids on all income levels. I would love to know what percentage of the FARMS kids at the NY Elite schools are first generation or recent immigrants to the US, because that provides a different type of explanation (parents coming to the US for opportunities). I would also love to know how many URM who are TJ candidates or NY Magnet candidates, choose private schools that are looking to bolster their URM numbers.

This is not a black and white issue, it never has been. There are many parts of the puzzle that we cannot fix but ignoring those parts does not help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have no clue how the schools determined the top 1.5% of each middle school. You would think that the academic super stars would have been in that category. Clearly I have no problem with setting the bar with Geometry, I include that in my exam. But I don't think that Algebra II is an automatic acceptance just like I don't think high test scores are an automatic acceptance into AAP.

This year, it was just GPA + an essay written at home and unmonitored (meaning, the kid could have had help). Supposedly, the GPA was not weighted at all, and no benefits were given for 4 honors/AAP classes over only taking 3 honors classes, or higher math over Algebra I. At a school like Carson, the selection would more or less be a random drawing among the (hundred?) kids with 4.0s and at least 3 honors classes. All of the bright kids look about the same in the current process, and there is no mechanism to detect the academic superstars.

A lot of the issues you raised would be solved by using school level norms over county level norms for ECs, math advancement, teacher recommendations, and even a TJ test. At the wealthier middle schools, kids could be evaluated by looking at STEM achievements or results, since almost all of the kids are privileged and have many opportunities to excel. At the poorer middle schools, simply demonstrating interest by participating in a STEM activity would suffice. In both school types, the academic superstars would get glowing teacher recommendations, because they stand out compared to their peers at the school. There's no reason that they couldn't have a much more comprehensive and holistic evaluation of the kids in each middle school for the TJ spots for that middle school.

[Anonymous]

Why not EXCLUDE the race completely and just go by pure 100% merit? How about IQ tests along with the Essays, math, and GPA?

[Anonymous]

Why not increase the STEM schools in northern VA? If there is a higher demand for a product, how do you cut the supply of that product? And then we try to figure out why the US is lacking in producing kids who are smart in STEAM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not increase the STEM schools in northern VA? If there is a higher demand for a product, how do you cut the supply of that product? And then we try to figure out why the US is lacking in producing kids who are smart in STEAM.

Didn’t they add more seats this year?

But agree that they should expand STEM offerings given the demand.

[Anonymous]

The point is - Do we want to find a solution to producing world-class intellectuals? OR are we just happy fighting this silly race fight in our own country and neglecting the big picture?

We need more STEAM kids, period!

Every kid is important no matter rich or poor, race or culture, and every kid should have the OPTION to the best education. We need to change those things that are not working with time and/or the situations.

[Anonymous]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/


Does this make us feel proud? Don't we want to add more to this chart? If so, we need to do something better than just reducing seats for Asians.

[Anonymous]

If TJ was expanded so that the thousands of kids who qualify were served it would no longer be special and the “families who value education” aka preppers would seek out other programs they could compete in.

If TJ required an IQ test they would just start prepping for that.

I’m kind of sick of hearing about the sad academic superstars who won’t get into TJ. They will be fine at any school. Everyone should be more worried about the kids for whom TJ could change their lives. If you really cared about STEAM kids in America you’d agree.

[Anonymous]

If TJ was expanded so that the thousands of kids who qualify were served it would no longer be special and the “families who value education” aka preppers would seek out other programs they could compete in.

If TJ required an IQ test they would just start prepping for that.

I’m kind of sick of hearing about the sad academic superstars who won’t get into TJ. They will be fine at any school. Everyone should be more worried about the kids for whom TJ could change their lives. If you really cared about STEAM kids in America you’d agree.


Please, first your IQ is screaming that it needs help!

Just so you know, IQ cannot be prepped!!! It is inherent in people. Either you have it or you don't! It is like Common Sense which is apparently very uncommon.

Second, no one would want to go to TJ, if we had more STEM schools in VA. Trust me!!! It is the need of time! Grow up!

[Anonymous]

I am not sure if you are just dumb or totally ignorant. TJ is a good school because it has good students, teachers are not that great, they are just comparable to any other high school. They just give lots of work which the current students have to really work hard to complete. In fact there is nothing special about TJ other than it’s students. Students push each other to do better, for some misfits this is toxic culture, for others it drives them to realize their potential. I bet if TJ does not waters down it’s current work load, most of the new students will really struggle. Just wait for 6 months. The real value of TJ was to bring all these hard working students together where they collaborated and pushed each other to excel but most of them will be fine at their base high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not increase the STEM schools in northern VA? If there is a higher demand for a product, how do you cut the supply of that product? And then we try to figure out why the US is lacking in producing kids who are smart in STEAM.

I think this is a great idea but there are a multitude of road blocks that I see.

1) There will not be a second TJ. TJ is a Governors School and receive a good amount of financial support from companies. You cannot simply replicate TJ

2) A good number of schools, to include high schools, are over crowded. Building a new STEM high school would not fly because there is a need for at least one new regular high school

3) Building a second STEM high school would lead to people demanding more magnet schools, like an arts high school and an international relations high school (think languages and more social studies bent). I can’t see a second STEM magnet being built before other magnet schools are developed.

4) TJ isn’t close to full capacity. They really need to increase the number of seats available at TJ before building a second STEM school.

I suspect the answer is to develop the Academy model more and place more advanced STEM type classes in a few schools so that STEM interested kids have a place to go that isn’t TJ.

The other solution is for parents to realize that their kids will be fine even if they don’t attend TJ. Honestly, it is a small percentage of the FCPS student body that cares about TJ and only certain percentage that are up in arms about the changes. Lots of smart, STEM focused kids do very well at their base schools and attend excellent Universities. There is a vocal minority who think TJ is everything and are outraged if their kid doesn’t get in. The reason for the outrage is different this year but every year there is a thread of people who are shocked that said academic superstar didn’t get into TJ, just like there is every year for the AAP decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’m kind of sick of hearing about the sad academic superstars who won’t get into TJ. They will be fine at any school. Everyone should be more worried about the kids for whom TJ could change their lives. If you really cared about STEAM kids in America you’d agree.

You're very ignorant about the needs of highly gifted kids if you're assuming that they'll be fine at any school. Access to appropriate levels of challenge, mental stimulation, high level labs, a very smart peer group etc. would be life changing for most highly gifted kids. Many of the bright, overachievers might be fine at any high school. Gifted kids don't necessarily fall into that box.

Also, why are you assuming that TJ would only be life changing for poor kids? Many middle class families like mine would not be able to afford Ivies, SLACs, or anything beyond state schools without a decent aid package. Finishing in the top 10% (maybe even 25%) of TJ would help enormously with college aid and admissions. You need to stop categorizing everyone as either "poor" or "very privileged." There's a full economic spectrum of families spanning the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’m kind of sick of hearing about the sad academic superstars who won’t get into TJ. They will be fine at any school. Everyone should be more worried about the kids for whom TJ could change their lives. If you really cared about STEAM kids in America you’d agree.

Yes, the second-rate preppers that didn't make the cut will be fine, but for many of the students admitted from less affluent schools that had been overlooked in years past, this should be life-changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m kind of sick of hearing about the sad academic superstars who won’t get into TJ. They will be fine at any school. Everyone should be more worried about the kids for whom TJ could change their lives. If you really cared about STEAM kids in America you’d agree.

Yes, the second-rate preppers that didn't make the cut will be fine, but for many of the students admitted from less affluent schools that had been overlooked in years past, this should be life-changing.

Life changing for sure - on to community colleges instead of JMU or GMU.