Kobe Bryant killed in helicopter crash (per TMZ)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a sexual assault survivor and my rapist went to jail. I live in Los Angeles and it makes me want to throw up whenever I see Kobe jerseys. I know people hate the word triggering, but that’s how this feels. I got justice but the defence attorney put me through hell to get it. It’s really hard for me to see all this adoration for Kobe when I view him as a rapist.

+1
His legacy would have been that of Mike Tysonof he would have gone to jail.. His time on Earth and his life wAs very lucky and cushy.

Well complain to his accuser who chose to settle and take the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since posters are claiming that Kobe should be exempt from being remembered for the sexual assault because -
- athletes, even married fathers, cheat
- groupies like to have sex with them and often try to extort them
- wives know and accept this deal because of the money
- he committed adultry not rape
Makes me realize that we should continue to talk about Kobe in this context, especially now that he is dead. Infact, his daughters should know what he was accused of and what he admitted to.. Why? Only then male athletes will change their behaviour. Kobe should be made an example of and his legacy should always be remembered along with this incident (adultry with battery or violent rape - you choose). Unless athletes are made aware that this inhumane beastial behaviour will not be pardoned and forgotten, they will never have any motivation to change. Kobe will not be forgiven and neither will any other athlete who dares to rape. Keep it in your pants and use your damn hands.
Let athletes know that

Who died and made you the sex police? Buzz off. These are adults making adult decisions. Who the hell are you to try to dictate what grown adults can do? Your arrogance is astounding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe you all (on both sides) are STILL arguing about this. What a waste of a good thread.

I remember being disturbed by the rape case, and I think it's important to discuss-- but the man has died an horrific death along with three other families, including three children and one of them his own.
I won't doubt someone who said that they were raped, but she did settle, and he all but admitted that he didn't really know (and it seemed while it was happening, didn't care) if it was consensual or not.
To me, it's over, the book is closed--he died young and in the worst way I can imagine.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also he was 24 and has apologized, and has done nothing else since then until his death. People make mistakes, but to smear the guys reputation like that is just ludicrous. He learned from the event and moved on to raise a great family with a loving wife who forgave him. Scandal free since.

It’s not smearing his reputation. People are complicated, and he was gifted but not perfect.

Nobody ever claimed he was perfect. Nobody dies perfect.

Kobe was a big deal to many and a major celebrity and sports figure and influence to many kids and teens. And the way he died really sucks since he lost not only his life at a young age, but his daughter.

People are focused on that. No one is calling him a saint. But to harp on the accusations and let it overshadow everything is getting quite old.

You are being ridiculous. Go to 10 websites that have something about Kobe on them, and tell me how many words are dedicated to the accusation compared to how many words dedicated to how awesome he was and how sad everyone is. It's HARDLY any. Sorry you are triggered by the few people who refuse to remember Kobe exactly the way you want them to.

A Washington Post reporter was FIRED for writing about the rape as part of his legacy. Whitewashing his crimes also gets old.

That sent a strong message to every other publication about what was okay to publish and most importantly what is not.

Adoration only. No mentions of any flaws. That gets old.

[Anonymous]

This discussion will never go anywhere as there are two distinct lines of thinking

There are people who believe that if you commit a crime, that should define the entirety of your life. They don't believe in second chances, or rehabilitation. They don't see people as complex or multifaceted. It is just black and white. If you did wrong, that is the entirety of who you are. they don't believe a person who has done wrong can ever do good or be good. They do not believe their life has any further value. This is not an uncommon position. It is why there are people who are in jail for life for dealing marijuana or stealing a piece of pizza. We are seeing a lot of this view on this thread. People who believe this athletic accomplishments and philanthropic efforts and family roles are null and void due to what he did back in 2003. Many of these people don't even care about the actual facts of the case - there is so much information in the posts on here about what actually happened (based on published documents of first hand interview and testimony).

Then there are the opposite. People who believe that people can and do evolve and grown and change. That even when a crime is committed, that doesn't entirely define the person and that they can still have other roles and aspects to their lives that are good and purposeful and meaningful to many. That their talent and accomplishments can stand and exist and be recognized while still acknowledging that people are imperfect. They believe in rehabilitation and in taking responsibility. They also care about facts and acknowledging grey.

These two ways to approach the world are seen in thread after thread on this board. Your MIL gave your child juice against her wishes -cut her off. Your husband got upset and said something disrespectful - divorce him. Your friend cancelled a lunch without a good explanation - never speak to her again. These posts and responses get a lot of support on here. Many people truly see in good and bad, black and white with no in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also he was 24 and has apologized, and has done nothing else since then until his death. People make mistakes, but to smear the guys reputation like that is just ludicrous. He learned from the event and moved on to raise a great family with a loving wife who forgave him. Scandal free since.

It’s not smearing his reputation. People are complicated, and he was gifted but not perfect.

Nobody ever claimed he was perfect. Nobody dies perfect.

Kobe was a big deal to many and a major celebrity and sports figure and influence to many kids and teens. And the way he died really sucks since he lost not only his life at a young age, but his daughter.

People are focused on that. No one is calling him a saint. But to harp on the accusations and let it overshadow everything is getting quite old.

You are being ridiculous. Go to 10 websites that have something about Kobe on them, and tell me how many words are dedicated to the accusation compared to how many words dedicated to how awesome he was and how sad everyone is. It's HARDLY any. Sorry you are triggered by the few people who refuse to remember Kobe exactly the way you want them to.

The reporter was not fired. Was suspended then reinstated.

A Washington Post reporter was FIRED for writing about the rape as part of his legacy. Whitewashing his crimes also gets old.

That sent a strong message to every other publication about what was okay to publish and most importantly what is not.

Adoration only. No mentions of any flaws. That gets old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a sexual assault survivor and my rapist went to jail. I live in Los Angeles and it makes me want to throw up whenever I see Kobe jerseys. I know people hate the word triggering, but that’s how this feels. I got justice but the defence attorney put me through hell to get it. It’s really hard for me to see all this adoration for Kobe when I view him as a rapist.

+1
His legacy would have been that of Mike Tysonof he would have gone to jail.. His time on Earth and his life wAs very lucky and cushy.

He wasn't lucky. He was EXTREMELY talented and busted his ass every single day. And you are a big fat cow! LOL

[Anonymous]

This page lists some of the accomplishments and records that Kobe held at the time of his death. Might give those of you who don't understand why people are celebrating his life some insight into what he accomplished and why he was famous.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Kobe_Bryant#Currently_holds

He was also actively involved in a number of charities including


After-School All-Stars
Aid Still Required
Cathy's Kids Foundation
Kobe and Vanessa Bryant Family Foundation

Make-A-Wish Foundation
Stand Up To Cancer
Vijay Amritraj Foundation

https://theundefeated.com/features/kobe-bryants-charitable-work-included-20-years-with-the-make-a-wish-foundation/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This discussion will never go anywhere as there are two distinct lines of thinking

There are people who believe that if you commit a crime, that should define the entirety of your life. They don't believe in second chances, or rehabilitation. They don't see people as complex or multifaceted. It is just black and white. If you did wrong, that is the entirety of who you are. they don't believe a person who has done wrong can ever do good or be good. They do not believe their life has any further value. This is not an uncommon position. It is why there are people who are in jail for life for dealing marijuana or stealing a piece of pizza. We are seeing a lot of this view on this thread. People who believe this athletic accomplishments and philanthropic efforts and family roles are null and void due to what he did back in 2003. Many of these people don't even care about the actual facts of the case - there is so much information in the posts on here about what actually happened (based on published documents of first hand interview and testimony).

Then there are the opposite. People who believe that people can and do evolve and grown and change. That even when a crime is committed, that doesn't entirely define the person and that they can still have other roles and aspects to their lives that are good and purposeful and meaningful to many. That their talent and accomplishments can stand and exist and be recognized while still acknowledging that people are imperfect. They believe in rehabilitation and in taking responsibility. They also care about facts and acknowledging grey.

These two ways to approach the world are seen in thread after thread on this board. Your MIL gave your child juice against her wishes -cut her off. Your husband got upset and said something disrespectful - divorce him. Your friend cancelled a lunch without a good explanation - never speak to her again. These posts and responses get a lot of support on here. Many people truly see in good and bad, black and white with no in between.

Actually, no. There have been plenty of people in this thread (I’m one of them) trying to point out that he was an amazing athlete, great dad, coach, philanthropist... and rapist.

All of these things can be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This discussion will never go anywhere as there are two distinct lines of thinking

There are people who believe that if you commit a crime, that should define the entirety of your life. They don't believe in second chances, or rehabilitation. They don't see people as complex or multifaceted. It is just black and white. If you did wrong, that is the entirety of who you are. they don't believe a person who has done wrong can ever do good or be good. They do not believe their life has any further value. This is not an uncommon position. It is why there are people who are in jail for life for dealing marijuana or stealing a piece of pizza. We are seeing a lot of this view on this thread. People who believe this athletic accomplishments and philanthropic efforts and family roles are null and void due to what he did back in 2003. Many of these people don't even care about the actual facts of the case - there is so much information in the posts on here about what actually happened (based on published documents of first hand interview and testimony).

Then there are the opposite. People who believe that people can and do evolve and grown and change. That even when a crime is committed, that doesn't entirely define the person and that they can still have other roles and aspects to their lives that are good and purposeful and meaningful to many. That their talent and accomplishments can stand and exist and be recognized while still acknowledging that people are imperfect. They believe in rehabilitation and in taking responsibility. They also care about facts and acknowledging grey.

These two ways to approach the world are seen in thread after thread on this board. Your MIL gave your child juice against her wishes -cut her off. Your husband got upset and said something disrespectful - divorce him. Your friend cancelled a lunch without a good explanation - never speak to her again. These posts and responses get a lot of support on here. Many people truly see in good and bad, black and white with no in between.

Actually, no. There have been plenty of people in this thread (I’m one of them) trying to point out that he was an amazing athlete, great dad, coach, philanthropist... and rapist.

All of these things can be true.

Then you fall into Category 2 if you believe they all be true (I would say alleged rapist as he was never found guilty). However if you feel the need to insist that the word rapist be in every post that mentions him or his accomplishments then you are more like Category 1 where you only think he can be a rapist athlete or a rapist coach or a rapist father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This discussion will never go anywhere as there are two distinct lines of thinking

There are people who believe that if you commit a crime, that should define the entirety of your life. They don't believe in second chances, or rehabilitation. They don't see people as complex or multifaceted. It is just black and white. If you did wrong, that is the entirety of who you are. they don't believe a person who has done wrong can ever do good or be good. They do not believe their life has any further value. This is not an uncommon position. It is why there are people who are in jail for life for dealing marijuana or stealing a piece of pizza. We are seeing a lot of this view on this thread. People who believe this athletic accomplishments and philanthropic efforts and family roles are null and void due to what he did back in 2003. Many of these people don't even care about the actual facts of the case - there is so much information in the posts on here about what actually happened (based on published documents of first hand interview and testimony).

Then there are the opposite. People who believe that people can and do evolve and grown and change. That even when a crime is committed, that doesn't entirely define the person and that they can still have other roles and aspects to their lives that are good and purposeful and meaningful to many. That their talent and accomplishments can stand and exist and be recognized while still acknowledging that people are imperfect. They believe in rehabilitation and in taking responsibility. They also care about facts and acknowledging grey.

These two ways to approach the world are seen in thread after thread on this board. Your MIL gave your child juice against her wishes -cut her off. Your husband got upset and said something disrespectful - divorce him. Your friend cancelled a lunch without a good explanation - never speak to her again. These posts and responses get a lot of support on here. Many people truly see in good and bad, black and white with no in between.

Actually, no. There have been plenty of people in this thread (I’m one of them) trying to point out that he was an amazing athlete, great dad, coach, philanthropist... and rapist.

All of these things can be true.

Then you fall into Category 2 if you believe they all be true (I would say alleged rapist as he was never found guilty). However if you feel the need to insist that the word rapist be in every post that mentions him or his accomplishments then you are more like Category 1 where you only think he can be a rapist athlete or a rapist coach or a rapist father.

The problem with your post is that countenancing any nuance diminishes the rhetorical force of agenda driven posters. The black and white approach is intentional, in service of some putative broader political aim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since posters are claiming that Kobe should be exempt from being remembered for the sexual assault because -
- athletes, even married fathers, cheat
- groupies like to have sex with them and often try to extort them
- wives know and accept this deal because of the money
- he committed adultry not rape
Makes me realize that we should continue to talk about Kobe in this context, especially now that he is dead. Infact, his daughters should know what he was accused of and what he admitted to.. Why? Only then male athletes will change their behaviour. Kobe should be made an example of and his legacy should always be remembered along with this incident (adultry with battery or violent rape - you choose). Unless athletes are made aware that this inhumane beastial behaviour will not be pardoned and forgotten, they will never have any motivation to change. Kobe will not be forgiven and neither will any other athlete who dares to rape. Keep it in your pants and use your damn hands.
Let athletes know that

Who died and made you the sex police? Buzz off. These are adults making adult decisions. Who the hell are you to try to dictate what grown adults can do? Your arrogance is astounding.

Your denial is astounding. Rape is not sex. Rape is about power and violence. You would know if you were not so thoroughly groomed into taking it up yours.

[Anonymous]

He had a wife who could take this shit from him. Athletes sure know how to pick the doormats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since posters are claiming that Kobe should be exempt from being remembered for the sexual assault because -
- athletes, even married fathers, cheat
- groupies like to have sex with them and often try to extort them
- wives know and accept this deal because of the money
- he committed adultry not rape
Makes me realize that we should continue to talk about Kobe in this context, especially now that he is dead. Infact, his daughters should know what he was accused of and what he admitted to.. Why? Only then male athletes will change their behaviour. Kobe should be made an example of and his legacy should always be remembered along with this incident (adultry with battery or violent rape - you choose). Unless athletes are made aware that this inhumane beastial behaviour will not be pardoned and forgotten, they will never have any motivation to change. Kobe will not be forgiven and neither will any other athlete who dares to rape. Keep it in your pants and use your damn hands.
Let athletes know that

Who died and made you the sex police? Buzz off. These are adults making adult decisions. Who the hell are you to try to dictate what grown adults can do? Your arrogance is astounding.

Who died? Kobe did. Remember that exceptional athlete who was beloved and who also cheated on his wife and raped a teenager?

We all will take some stance - rape protestors, rape apologists and neutral Switzerland. No one made me the sex police but when did you become the pimp?

[Anonymous]

Somehow, I have not been able to understand the Black experience in this country because I am not Black and I am an immigrant. I have observed though that it dampens the criticism that Black community extends to a Black celebrity over any wrong doing because how the entire race will be percieved by non-Blacks and because they feel that the world wants to bring down the Black man. I first saw it with OJ Simpson, then Cosby, now Kobe. This cannot be healthy.
.