FCPS paying for Critical Race Theory curriculum. To be implemented in a year

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

He was definitely a White Supremacist and I have to suspect you are too based on your post. You made an interesting apology about children and parents. I have read that White Supremacists consider everyone else children.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

He was definitely a White Supremacist and I have to suspect you are too based on your post. You made an interesting apology about children and parents. I have read that White Supremacists consider everyone else children.

Sorry I meant to say analogy instead of apology. My phone was autocorrecting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

He was definitely a White Supremacist and I have to suspect you are too based on your post. You made an interesting apology about children and parents. I have read that White Supremacists consider everyone else children.

Well you are very childish to make such an accusation. No one with rational thought thinks someone following the law of the land on slavery at the time considered that people who owned slaves thought blacks were children in such a single minded light. Do they recognize their own behavior and think it's necessary and rationalize it? Sure, but not to the level you are assuming and certainly if they made them work on things they weren't able to do themselves, they realized their actual potential as humans as well. Your very ability to decide the name of your school locally instead of Britain or even the US government comes from him. Surely even you can recognize this. You think say Omeish with her in ability to even show a driver's license to a cop, call on jihad, and hate on jews has a better understanding of rights of humans than Jefferson? Hate is hate. It's not love. If you can't find something positive about Jefferson that's your problem and I guess you can go through life wondering why you still cling to his words and still hate him as a person. Others can come to terms with his complexity and still honor him for what he did for Virginia and the country and for education. I suggest getting out of whatever racist book you're reading and start looking at real life and real history in full. The man's skin was just a color. Take away the skin color and see him for who he really was and what the law of the land really was at the time. If he was black how would you feel about him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

He was definitely a White Supremacist and I have to suspect you are too based on your post. You made an interesting apology about children and parents. I have read that White Supremacists consider everyone else children.

Well you are very childish to make such an accusation. No one with rational thought thinks someone following the law of the land on slavery at the time considered that people who owned slaves thought blacks were children in such a single minded light. Do they recognize their own behavior and think it's necessary and rationalize it? Sure, but not to the level you are assuming and certainly if they made them work on things they weren't able to do themselves, they realized their actual potential as humans as well. Your very ability to decide the name of your school locally instead of Britain or even the US government comes from him. Surely even you can recognize this. You think say Omeish with her in ability to even show a driver's license to a cop, call on jihad, and hate on jews has a better understanding of rights of humans than Jefferson? Hate is hate. It's not love. If you can't find something positive about Jefferson that's your problem and I guess you can go through life wondering why you still cling to his words and still hate him as a person. Others can come to terms with his complexity and still honor him for what he did for Virginia and the country and for education. I suggest getting out of whatever racist book you're reading and start looking at real life and real history in full. The man's skin was just a color. Take away the skin color and see him for who he really was and what the law of the land really was at the time. If he was black how would you feel about him?

Did Omeish keep slaves for decades? Did she rape any kids? And you even bringing her up is a clear demonstration of your White Supremacist behavior.

[Anonymous]

Do you ever wonder why you and Omeish decided to come to a country started by a white supremist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

You sound like you might be happier in MoCo. You might find more of like-minded people there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

And you are one person who has a right to that objection. And I am another who is able to rationalize why I honor him. Again, why did you move to a state and country started by this guy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

And you are one person who has a right to that objection. And I am another who is able to rationalize why I honor him. Again, why did you move to a state and country started by this guy?

Who moved here?

[Anonymous]

There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

[Anonymous]

Virginia would be so better off without PP. She contributes absolutely nothing of value yet revels in the discord she sows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the importance of history and naming, but I also don’t really care what the name of the high school I teach at is…as long as it doesn’t sound too ridiculous. If tomorrow they decide to change the name of it to “Benedict Arnold High” or “Julius and Ethel Rosenberg HS,” I wouldn’t waste energy being bothered by it.

Well obviously a lot of people care. Otherwise why are we bothering with renaming?

You know when Argentinian government officials start making noise about reappropriating the Falkland Islands (even though they lost the 1982 “war” and even though 99.8 percent of people on the island voted to remain British), that they are doing a shitty job. But it works. People get all stirred up about the “Malvinas” and how they were wrongly taken by British imperialists, so they forget to examine the real problems that are affecting their day to day lives and the ones that the government is not handling.

That is why I don’t care what the name of my high school is. I don’t have the energy to care about it when there are many bigger fish to fry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

Awful people get accolades all the time. Cops commit crimes. Corruption happens. It sucks, I know. As an honest-to-a-fault kind of person, I found this reality out the hard way. I went through a misanthropic phase but it was lonely, so I have learned to accept some amount of “taint” in about 60 percent of my fellow humans . If you manage to convince people to change the name of Thomas Jefferson to “Mother Theresa High,” then good for you. I will support you. I just don’t have the energy to fight over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

And you are one person who has a right to that objection. And I am another who is able to rationalize why I honor him. Again, why did you move to a state and country started by this guy?

Virginia wasn’t started by Thomas Jefferson, and if you believe it was you have deeper education woes than critical race theory. I was born in a country that believes in improving itself, striving for better, and speaking unpopular truth to power.