FCPS paying for Critical Race Theory curriculum. To be implemented in a year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

Do the critical race theorists not understand they are pointing out errors in a person's behavior with a disability?

Bottom line is that we are not recognizing this man for his contributions to the black community in his time. He did write many letters saying he was concerned about black people and wanted them to have freedom, however I just don't think he was capable of doing this. Each person has a role in society and abolition just wasn't his. I think he thought baby steps were needed to freedom for America before freedom for slaves. This doesn't make him a horrible person we have to denigrate. It just means we have to limit our praise to what he could achieve which was a lot.


https://www.amazon.com/Diagnosing-Jefferson-Evidence-Condition-Associations/dp/1885477600/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Diagnosing+Jefferson%3A+Evidence+of+a+Condition+that+Guided+His+Beliefs%2C+Behavior%2C+and+Personal+Associations&qid=1623765384&sr=8-1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The genius and erudition of Thomas Jefferson will be remembered long after bitter revenge hacks like Ibram Kendi and Nikole Hannah Jones are forgotten.

Ah, yes, the eloquent white man who led us to enlightenment vs. the uneducated black folks who are just angry.

Good thing racism isn’t real.

Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

Do the critical race theorists not understand they are pointing out errors in a person's behavior with a disability?

Bottom line is that we are not recognizing this man for his contributions to the black community in his time. He did write many letters saying he was concerned about black people and wanted them to have freedom, however I just don't think he was capable of doing this. Each person has a role in society and abolition just wasn't his. I think he thought baby steps were needed to freedom for America before freedom for slaves. This doesn't make him a horrible person we have to denigrate. It just means we have to limit our praise to what he could achieve which was a lot.


https://www.amazon.com/Diagnosing-Jefferson-Evidence-Condition-Associations/dp/1885477600/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Diagnosing+Jefferson%3A+Evidence+of+a+Condition+that+Guided+His+Beliefs%2C+Behavior%2C+and+Personal+Associations&qid=1623765384&sr=8-1

So you are saying that even he knew that his actions were wrong. Yet, he still committed those acts . Even TJ knew he was a POS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The genius and erudition of Thomas Jefferson will be remembered long after bitter revenge hacks like Ibram Kendi and Nikole Hannah Jones are forgotten.

Ah, yes, the eloquent white man who led us to enlightenment vs. the uneducated black folks who are just angry.

Good thing racism isn’t real.

Seriously.

But he was actually an educated white man compared to all races. There actually were very few to none black men and women in America at the time able to do what he did. Should he not have done anything? Remained part of the British empire and left it to them to decide issues of slavery? Another two white men also were the catalyst to stop slavery in Britain and in fact white men also stopped slavery in America with the help of black men during the civil war. So basically white men held the power in both of these countries and eventually gave power to black people for the benefit of their countries. Black people did not rise up in either country and take their freedom back. Nor did they do this in Africa at the time. And Jefferson's declaration was the catalyst for a lot of the quest for freedom for both blacks and whites during the civil war and beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The genius and erudition of Thomas Jefferson will be remembered long after bitter revenge hacks like Ibram Kendi and Nikole Hannah Jones are forgotten.

Ah, yes, the eloquent white man who led us to enlightenment vs. the uneducated black folks who are just angry.

Good thing racism isn’t real.

Seriously.

But he was actually an educated white man compared to all races. There actually were very few to none black men and women in America at the time able to do what he did. Should he not have done anything? Remained part of the British empire and left it to them to decide issues of slavery? Another two white men also were the catalyst to stop slavery in Britain and in fact white men also stopped slavery in America with the help of black men during the civil war. So basically white men held the power in both of these countries and eventually gave power to black people for the benefit of their countries. Black people did not rise up in either country and take their freedom back. Nor did they do this in Africa at the time. And Jefferson's declaration was the catalyst for a lot of the quest for freedom for both blacks and whites during the civil war and beyond.

Freedom was granted to Blacks in the civil war because the Union made a deal with the slaves to free them, if the Black slaves would help Union defeat the South. Not because the good white folks wanted to help the slaves. Let the truth be known.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

[Anonymous]

I understand the importance of history and naming, but I also don’t really care what the name of the high school I teach at is…as long as it doesn’t sound too ridiculous. If tomorrow they decide to change the name of it to “Benedict Arnold High” or “Julius and Ethel Rosenberg HS,” I wouldn’t waste energy being bothered by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

It startles me to realize that other people are suddenly realizing that folk who had prominent roles in “history” are often not very good people. One of my favorite writers was a complete asshole in real life, but I still love his work, and I am not going to stop reading it because I disapprove of who he was as a person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand the importance of history and naming, but I also don’t really care what the name of the high school I teach at is…as long as it doesn’t sound too ridiculous. If tomorrow they decide to change the name of it to “Benedict Arnold High” or “Julius and Ethel Rosenberg HS,” I wouldn’t waste energy being bothered by it.

Well obviously a lot of people care. Otherwise why are we bothering with renaming?

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

It startles me to realize that other people are suddenly realizing that folk who had prominent roles in “history” are often not very good people. One of my favorite writers was a complete asshole in real life, but I still love his work, and I am not going to stop reading it because I disapprove of who he was as a person.

True but when are they also going to realize that current people are often not entirely good. All you have to do is look on facebook or instagram to realize that people do some good things and some bad. Or our school board or our politicians or even our teachers.

To me Jefferson was a Virginian and deserves a prominent place in Virginia's history. I don't have to think he was perfect to honor him for what he did.