FCPS paying for Critical Race Theory curriculum. To be implemented in a year

[Anonymous]

Mother Theresa is also a controversial figure. You aren't going to find a human without faults. And Mother Theresa has no link to Virginia or the US. The names on the schools are supposed to represent people or things that played a dominant role in the state and in education or either or.

Again if you hate Thomas Jefferson so much, why are you here and in particular in Virginia? You can avoid the college which was started by him and high school if you want. Plenty of other people want to go there. Not only did people respect him, but they named him for the most elite public high school in Virginia and the nation. And you think somehow by calling him a white supremist everyone else was wrong about him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia would be so better off without PP. She contributes absolutely nothing of value yet revels in the discord she sows.

Thank you. I was taught when certain people despise you, you know you are on the right path. I appreciate your validation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

And you are one person who has a right to that objection. And I am another who is able to rationalize why I honor him. Again, why did you move to a state and country started by this guy?

Virginia wasn’t started by Thomas Jefferson, and if you believe it was you have deeper education woes than critical race theory. I was born in a country that believes in improving itself, striving for better, and speaking unpopular truth to power.

Proclaiming Jefferson as an unworthy terrible person who deserves vilification isn't speaking unpopular truth to power. It's just being ridiculous and wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginia would be so better off without PP. She contributes absolutely nothing of value yet revels in the discord she sows.

Thank you. I was taught when certain people despise you, you know you are on the right path. I appreciate your validation.

Who taught you that? And what do you think it means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mother Theresa is also a controversial figure. You aren't going to find a human without faults. And Mother Theresa has no link to Virginia or the US. The names on the schools are supposed to represent people or things that played a dominant role in the state and in education or either or.

Again if you hate Thomas Jefferson so much, why are you here and in particular in Virginia? You can avoid the college which was started by him and high school if you want. Plenty of other people want to go there. Not only did people respect him, but they named him for the most elite public high school in Virginia and the nation. And you think somehow by calling him a white supremist everyone else was wrong about him?

Because veneration of Thomas Jefferson is not a requirement to live in Virginia? Because plenty of women and people of color weren’t consulted about naming things after him, and are exercising their rights to free speech now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Mr. Jefferson lived within the social constructs of the time. The social constructs of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s sucked too. We have made progress though and we must continue to make progress. And I'm sorry, TJ helped shape this country with a framework which for better of worse has shaped and changed many lives for the better. I'm thankful for him. We all make mistakes that we look back on and learn from. Had he lived longer I'm sure he would have been on the right side just like 70s and 80s era kids that thought Blazing Saddles or 16 Candles was funny look back now and cringe and know so much of what was societally normal was not okay.

Social constructs of his time thought that what Jefferson did was beyond the pale; that’s why he fought so hard to keep his secret. The shame of it nearly ruined his daughter Martha from his first wife. The fact that he raped his dead wife’s little fake sister when she was a young teenager was NOT the norm back then and it was a huge scandal, one that rumor mongers got ahold of and made a big deal about. Remember too that not all the Founding Fathers had slaves. The other shameful fact was that Jefferson was so profligate with spending that he died deeply in debt and the families of people he enslaved had to be torn apart to pay his debts. That was also deeply shameful for his family. He was shockingly irresponsible even by societal standards then.

Agree. There were plenty of abolitionists and people who felt slavery was immoral in TJ's time. So, First PP, stop pretending that wasn't the case.

I don't disagree, however slavery was not the only issue at the time. What Jefferson is remembered for starting this country. He's not remembered as an abolitionist. 'Ive also read that he was aspergers so probably ideas were easier for him than relationships.

Does this group honestly believe that America shouldn't exist? That some other person in America would have been able to take on Jefferson's role at the time and should have been remembered instead? I don't understand why people cant be remembered for their positive contributions. Do we not want to remember Martin Luther King Jr. either? Where are we going with these arguments?

I don’t think anyone here believes America shouldn’t exist or that Thomas Jefferson shouldn’t be remembered. Just don’t portray a bio of the man without mentioning the fact that he was a child predator.
Don’t know why you keep trying to defame MLK about some suspect rumors about the man when we elected a man everyone knew had multiple affairs on his wife, bragged about sexually assaulting women, and is suspected by many of inciting an attempted coup to overthrow our current government.
Men are serving longer than life + sentences for doing less than what Thomas Jefferson did.

So if you think America should be here and Thomas Jefferson should be remembered, then what is the problem with his name on something? Do you think his accomplishments deserve it? That's all that matters. We have the internet and people know all about him. Having his name on something does not erase his past.

He’s a historical white supremacist. He should be remembered, not honored as a hero.

We will have to disagree. America became a country because of Jefferson's actions which were bold and woke for the time. He should be honored in my opinion and in the opinion of many others. I don't think he was ever considered a hero, so a remembrance is fine. I'm sure Britain doesn't consider him a hero either. On a building for education which he supported. It's an appropriate place for remembrance. I don't think he should be remembered as a hero but he isn't currently so no problem there.

He's not a straightforward historical white supremacist either. He did have many slaves but wrote many laws and writings in support of freeing slaves. Our constitution is based on the laws he wrote for Virginia. Must irk you I guess that a white man who owned slaves actually wanted something better for them at least in his mind for the future. Woke people remind me of teens who think they are smarter than their parents. They actually are a lot like Jefferson. Not a different type of human. Jefferson was woke for his time, contributed a ton to America, and will be remembered long after we die and the world forgets about us.

Who is saying not to remember Jefferson though? It seems possible to both remember a human being and not lie about the fact that he was a rapist and a slave owner at a point in history where enlightened thinkers, among them his peers, realized slavery was evil. There’s no entitlement to having your name on a building that is supported by taxpayers, and taxpayers can reasonably say they don’t want their taxes supporting a building that honors a man who would have considered them property.

But they really can't based on that analysis. He's not being remembered for this and his contributions are still valid today. They can say they'd like a building named for someone in particular because that person is prominent, but instead we are reacting and calling these people bad people as the reason for a name change when they weren't. They were just people. The law of the land allowed slaves and Jefferson inherited slaves. Just like if 50 years from now we outlawed gasoline because it harmed the environment but today we all use gasoline. It doesn't make us bad people for using gasoline today.

Yes, taxpayers can decide the names of their buildings, however the way these are being done now to denigrate people is what I object to. And taxpayers can even say we like that person and would like to honor them but don't want to spend the money to change a name and so will wait for a new school. Has there even been a list of names that people want to honor in Virginia that could be pulled from? The names they keep coming up with seem pulled from thin air and often aren't even Virginians. The sense of urgency to change names just isn't there for Jefferson. His contributions are still relevant in the US and world today and he's still a prominent person in Virginia's history.

I think we can assess someone based on more than what was legal during their lifetime, but also what was moral. Many of Jefferson’s contemporaries were well aware that slavery was deeply immoral. Many of his contemporaries did not own and rape human beings. The fact that it was legal is a National shame, bear in mind that other developed nations had done away with it.

If you believe in Jefferson’s “legacy” of democracy than you should support the right of the people to determine who they honor with names— on public buildings. If you want to buy a private building and name it for a rapist and slave owner, no one can stop you from doing so. What I object to is expecting me, a woman who pays plenty of Virginia taxes, to spend money keeping a rapists name on a building.

And you are one person who has a right to that objection. And I am another who is able to rationalize why I honor him. Again, why did you move to a state and country started by this guy?

Virginia wasn’t started by Thomas Jefferson, and if you believe it was you have deeper education woes than critical race theory. I was born in a country that believes in improving itself, striving for better, and speaking unpopular truth to power.

Proclaiming Jefferson as an unworthy terrible person who deserves vilification isn't speaking unpopular truth to power. It's just being ridiculous and wrong.

Did I say that? Read carefully. I am pretty sure I called him a slave owner and a rapist who did not deserve to have taxpayers who he would have victimized keep his name on buildings. Not having your name on a building is not being victimized, it is just, and this is important....not having your name on a building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

Some of us have family history that was on Virginia’s soil before Thomas Jefferson or any of his ancestors knew this place existed and probably you and yours too. This is our home and we shouldn’t have to leave. Why don’t you take your White Supremacists views and move somewhere you can openly support White Supremacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mother Theresa is also a controversial figure. You aren't going to find a human without faults. And Mother Theresa has no link to Virginia or the US. The names on the schools are supposed to represent people or things that played a dominant role in the state and in education or either or.

Again if you hate Thomas Jefferson so much, why are you here and in particular in Virginia? You can avoid the college which was started by him and high school if you want. Plenty of other people want to go there. Not only did people respect him, but they named him for the most elite public high school in Virginia and the nation. And you think somehow by calling him a white supremist everyone else was wrong about him?

Because veneration of Thomas Jefferson is not a requirement to live in Virginia? Because plenty of women and people of color weren’t consulted about naming things after him, and are exercising their rights to free speech now?

I’d rather the school be named White Supremacy High School.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mother Theresa is also a controversial figure. You aren't going to find a human without faults. And Mother Theresa has no link to Virginia or the US. The names on the schools are supposed to represent people or things that played a dominant role in the state and in education or either or.

Again if you hate Thomas Jefferson so much, why are you here and in particular in Virginia? You can avoid the college which was started by him and high school if you want. Plenty of other people want to go there. Not only did people respect him, but they named him for the most elite public high school in Virginia and the nation. And you think somehow by calling him a white supremist everyone else was wrong about him?

Because veneration of Thomas Jefferson is not a requirement to live in Virginia? Because plenty of women and people of color weren’t consulted about naming things after him, and are exercising their rights to free speech now?

What do you mean they weren't consulted? Thomas Jefferson High School is not that old. They were consulted and voted on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

Some of us have family history that was on Virginia’s soil before Thomas Jefferson or any of his ancestors knew this place existed and probably you and yours too. This is our home and we shouldn’t have to leave. Why don’t you take your White Supremacists views and move somewhere you can openly support White Supremacy.

Doubtful. And if you were, your family decided to stay here anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

Some of us have family history that was on Virginia’s soil before Thomas Jefferson or any of his ancestors knew this place existed and probably you and yours too. This is our home and we shouldn’t have to leave. Why don’t you take your White Supremacists views and move somewhere you can openly support White Supremacy.

Doubtful. And if you were, your family decided to stay here anyway.

And is this you? If so, you've already indicated that your family isn't even from here. Sounds like the country you lived in before was better. Guess it's time to pack up.

"I was born in a country that believes in improving itself, striving for better, and speaking unpopular truth to power."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proclaiming Jefferson as an unworthy terrible person who deserves vilification isn't speaking unpopular truth to power. It's just being ridiculous and wrong.

Did I say that? Read carefully. I am pretty sure I called him a slave owner and a rapist who did not deserve to have taxpayers who he would have victimized keep his name on buildings. Not having your name on a building is not being victimized, it is just, and this is important....not having your name on a building.

He's a Founding Father. It seems that you don't know why he is. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

Some of us have family history that was on Virginia’s soil before Thomas Jefferson or any of his ancestors knew this place existed and probably you and yours too. This is our home and we shouldn’t have to leave. Why don’t you take your White Supremacists views and move somewhere you can openly support White Supremacy.

Doubtful. And if you were, your family decided to stay here anyway.

And is this you? If so, you've already indicated that your family isn't even from here. Sounds like the country you lived in before was better. Guess it's time to pack up.

"I was born in a country that believes in improving itself, striving for better, and speaking unpopular truth to power."

No, those are American values as they were taught to me, in the United States, the country of my birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proclaiming Jefferson as an unworthy terrible person who deserves vilification isn't speaking unpopular truth to power. It's just being ridiculous and wrong.

Did I say that? Read carefully. I am pretty sure I called him a slave owner and a rapist who did not deserve to have taxpayers who he would have victimized keep his name on buildings. Not having your name on a building is not being victimized, it is just, and this is important....not having your name on a building.

He's a Founding Father. It seems that you don't know why he is. Sorry.

He was a founding father. He was also a slave owner and a rapist. Both are true and one does not cancel out the other. Being a founding father does not entitle someone to indefinite, uncritical veneration or indefinite support from a changing taxpayer electorate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proclaiming Jefferson as an unworthy terrible person who deserves vilification isn't speaking unpopular truth to power. It's just being ridiculous and wrong.

Did I say that? Read carefully. I am pretty sure I called him a slave owner and a rapist who did not deserve to have taxpayers who he would have victimized keep his name on buildings. Not having your name on a building is not being victimized, it is just, and this is important....not having your name on a building.

He's a Founding Father. It seems that you don't know why he is. Sorry.

He was a founding father. He was also a slave owner and a rapist. Both are true and one does not cancel out the other. Being a founding father does not entitle someone to indefinite, uncritical veneration or indefinite support from a changing taxpayer electorate.

Yeah it's like, I'm not going to stop watching great movies just because the producer or director raped somebody. Look at Morgan Freeman - he pedophiled his own niece and apparently sexually harasses young women frequently. I'm still going to acknowledge he was excellent in Shawshank Redemption and other films