McLean to Explore Separating from FC & FCPS

[Anonymous]

Moving for leaf debris- seems too much for me. I would move if the overcrowding or teaching was causing an issue in learning. Otherwise a little adversity is beneficial for a young adult- (run around the leaves).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Moving for leaf debris- seems too much for me. I would move if the overcrowding or teaching was causing an issue in learning. Otherwise a little adversity is beneficial for a young adult- (run around the leaves).

Nicely understated.

On the other hand, FCPS is all about lowering expectations these days, especially if you in an area where you are paying more in taxes to support FCPS. Stable boundaries, adequate facilities (which excludes POS modulars), and a clear plan to get kids back in school should be the baseline, and FCPS can’t even deliver on that.

[Anonymous]

What is Elaine Tholen doing to get McLean in the pipeline for an addition? Every weekend I see people out trying to get signatures for a recall petition. I haven't signed yet but will soon if she doesn't go to bat for us. She is supposed to represent us, not Justice HS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

+100
People like the PP are so transparent. They’ll keep throwing up hypothetical roadblocks because they can’t stand the thought of the cash cow that is McLean/Great Falls being “allowed” to separate from FCPS.

MCA does not include Great Falls, I don't think they are thinking about including Great Falls.

Great Falls residents make up at least 50% of Langley students - if not more. Of course GF would be included.

I dont this. The way City of Fairfax does it, is that they contract with FCPS to run their schools (and have different class sizes and other rules). There are students at Fairfax HS that are not in City of Fairfax. I would think that is the precedent that will be followed. I really do not think MCA is thinking beyond McLean (which is defined by the US Census and runs basically the same as the MCC tax district.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

+100
People like the PP are so transparent. They’ll keep throwing up hypothetical roadblocks because they can’t stand the thought of the cash cow that is McLean/Great Falls being “allowed” to separate from FCPS.

MCA does not include Great Falls, I don't think they are thinking about including Great Falls.

Great Falls residents make up at least 50% of Langley students - if not more. Of course GF would be included.

I dont this. The way City of Fairfax does it, is that they contract with FCPS to run their schools (and have different class sizes and other rules). There are students at Fairfax HS that are not in City of Fairfax. I would think that is the precedent that will be followed. I really do not think MCA is thinking beyond McLean (which is defined by the US Census and runs basically the same as the MCC tax district.

Who knows? It will be a harder sell if you are asking McLean residents to assume responsibility for taking care of Cooper and Langley, when most students who attend those schools live outside McLean. I think most (though not all) of the kids who attend City of Fairfax schools live in Fairfax City. But it's also possible they'll pursue a model where Greater McLean also includes Great Falls and assumes responsibility for the operation of the schools, as does Falls Church City, and not just their ownership.

One way of the other, the status quo is unacceptable and reaching a tipping point.

[Anonymous]

The Fairfax City model provides no assurance to western Great Falls residents that FCPS won't try and redistrict them out of Langley, which is the long-term goal of many FCPS School Board members.

[Anonymous]

I am trying to educate myself here - so apologies for the basic question - is McLean HS the most over capacity HS in FCPS or are there others ahead of them? Is an addition the best solution or would re-districting to Langley solve the problem faster?

I empathize with the frustration with FCPS - they are just not transparent. I know that at FCHS we got told we would get a reno, then kicked back down the list, over and over. We are finally get a major reno, but it was hard not to feel ignored and cheated in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to educate myself here - so apologies for the basic question - is McLean HS the most over capacity HS in FCPS or are there others ahead of them? Is an addition the best solution or would re-districting to Langley solve the problem faster?

I empathize with the frustration with FCPS - they are just not transparent. I know that at FCHS we got told we would get a reno, then kicked back down the list, over and over. We are finally get a major reno, but it was hard not to feel ignored and cheated in the process.

Short version if that Chantilly and McLean are the two most overcrowded high schools for which FCPS has not come up with any solution.

Obviously Chantilly folks aren't complaining like McLean, and maybe they are just more chill, but perhaps they also haven't been flat-out lied to like FCPS has misled McLean parents for years.

Redistricting kids to Langley would help with the overcrowding but could leave McLean the runt of FCPS and also lead to overcrowding to Langley down the road. If FCPS changes TJ admissions to a region-based lottery system, Langley and McLean may also pick up additional kids. There are many uncertainties, and FCPS planning is atrocious and lacking transparency.

[Anonymous]

More info than you may want but here is CIP published in DEC 2019 (2020 CIP must be coming soon)

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Proposed-CIP-FY-2021-25_1.pdf

Table on page 60 of HS capacity with and without modulars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to educate myself here - so apologies for the basic question - is McLean HS the most over capacity HS in FCPS or are there others ahead of them? Is an addition the best solution or would re-districting to Langley solve the problem faster?

I empathize with the frustration with FCPS - they are just not transparent. I know that at FCHS we got told we would get a reno, then kicked back down the list, over and over. We are finally get a major reno, but it was hard not to feel ignored and cheated in the process.

Short version if that Chantilly and McLean are the two most overcrowded high schools for which FCPS has not come up with any solution.

Obviously Chantilly folks aren't complaining like McLean, and maybe they are just more chill, but perhaps they also haven't been flat-out lied to like FCPS has misled McLean parents for years.

Redistricting kids to Langley would help with the overcrowding but could leave McLean the runt of FCPS and also lead to overcrowding to Langley down the road. If FCPS changes TJ admissions to a region-based lottery system, Langley and McLean may also pick up additional kids. There are many uncertainties, and FCPS planning is atrocious and lacking transparency.

Thank you! A very fair and succinct summary - now I get it. And, yes, FCPS planning is atrocious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to educate myself here - so apologies for the basic question - is McLean HS the most over capacity HS in FCPS or are there others ahead of them? Is an addition the best solution or would re-districting to Langley solve the problem faster?

I empathize with the frustration with FCPS - they are just not transparent. I know that at FCHS we got told we would get a reno, then kicked back down the list, over and over. We are finally get a major reno, but it was hard not to feel ignored and cheated in the process.

The other complication is that the feeder patterns are a mess. If they move kids from a couple of elementary schools to Langley HS, they need to move them to Cooper MS too. Otherwise, they'd create a situation that would be analogous to having a small part of Fairhill or Camelot go to Frost rather than Jackson, but then making them go to Falls Church rather than Woodson. But Cooper is about to be renovated, so some of the Langley parents don't want kids coming into their middle school during a renovation. Just a logistical mess all-around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More info than you may want but here is CIP published in DEC 2019 (2020 CIP must be coming soon)

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Proposed-CIP-FY-2021-25_1.pdf

Table on page 60 of HS capacity with and without modulars

so Centrevill, Oakton, and Chantilly are worse shape, but McLean is the sole neglected school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More info than you may want but here is CIP published in DEC 2019 (2020 CIP must be coming soon)

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Proposed-CIP-FY-2021-25_1.pdf

Table on page 60 of HS capacity with and without modulars

so Centrevill, Oakton, and Chantilly are worse shape, but McLean is the sole neglected school?

Oakton is currently being renovated and expanded at a cost of $112M. Centreville is in the CIP for a renovation/expansion starting in 2025 with a budget of $146M.

Chantilly and McLean are the two seriously overcrowded schools for which FCPS has not come up with a solution. However, McLean was built in 1955 and Chantilly was built in 1972, so you can imagine which one is in better shape.

[Anonymous]

PP above explained that there is a solution in place (addition I suppose) for Oakton and Centerville. McLean and Chantilly are the most overcrowded with no solution in place.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP who asked the original question and I do not think that the underlying premise - that McLean HS is overcrowded with no good solution in plans - is incorrect, no matter whether you disagree with their proposed solution.