Can I sue Callie Oettinger?

[Anonymous]

More importantly, if I sue Callie will she engage the Goldwater Institute to countersue me at no cost to her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More importantly, if I sue Callie will she engage the Goldwater Institute to countersue me at no cost to her?

100% she could if you give her cause to do so. And based on some of the comments made, if made publicly, that won’t be a high bar to cross.

[Anonymous]

Sandefur is the Barry Goldwater Chair in American Institutions at Arizona State. I don't think ASU would be happy with the negative publicity from of a countersuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at it this way. If someone breaks into Targets IT systems and steals the data, that’s a criminal act. If Target willingly hands it over, Target is the culpable party. If you sue Callie, she’ll file for bankruptcy, we get no benefit, and this stuff keeps happening. FCPS cares nothing about privacy of data. If they did, they would have spent the money on it last time this happened.

Nope. FCPS didn't "willingly" hand it over--it was accidental. And made more likely to happen by the endless badgering for information by Callie in an already stressed public school system. The real crime is that Callie "willingly" shared that information with others and published it online.
Unintentional leaks don't allow you to do whatever you want with the goods. We can sue Callie who intentionally acted wrongly with information AND we can lobby for better privacy protection. I think it's incredibly important to punish her and to deter people who think they can act with impunity with data that doesn't belong to them because they have some cause they are invested in.

It seems you don’t care that FCPS has no process to ensure this doesn’t happen. I don’t know Callie, but at least she scrubbed the data. What happens next time when a nefarious character doesn’t? Then what? What if it’s your kids’s personal non-scrubbed data out there that is used against them in the future. Then will you still feel like it’s not the school’s job? That they’re stressed and it’s a mistake? BS. FCPS has the responsibility to protect data, by state and federal laws. They have failed multiple times and do nothing to change it. And here you are making excuses they’re busy or stressed. What’s next? Blame the kids for having personal information?

Did you not notice that I said "AND" lobby for better privacy protection. But I work with data in a government setting--I know there are data and privacy errors all the time and we have a huge budget to protect this because we work with healthcare data. We have so much more money and there are still tons of human errors. School systems have to share information--they have to share IEP records, they have to share accommodations across teachers--to expect that they will never make mistakes is just unrealistic. Should there be more national level privacy data systems and strict protocol like they have in healthcare--yes, and people are working on that.

But only one person willingly acted wrongly with information and that person needs to be punished. She didn't scrub the data--she shared it identified with others first who decided to scrub the data AND they collectively decided to post it publicly??? She gave others access to the private data of 35000 kids knowingly. How can you POSSIBLY be advocating for not going after her??

As this thread has gone off into a territory with some people saying she should go to jail, others saying she's a hero, and others worrying she's posted all the data online-- I think it's important everyone be accurate. I don't want to be someone contributing to misinformation so in the spirit of getting productive conversation rather than back and forth recriminations--I went back and looked at what I've said to check. I may have wrote this post (I at least thought something like this!) and if so, I wanted to clarify it:

My current understanding is that we really don't know for sure what we shared with others. She wrote that she shared the information with a trusted journalist, but we don't know exactly what she shared though we can see that the journalist posted some images of what looks like sample files on line. We also can see files with partially redacted information posted on her website--files that in my opinion have too much identifiable information even if they don't have names. I don't have the heart to search for more based on what has already been found. I feel like I'm invading others' privacy by searching.

I think any parents whose children's data she had access to and who are not comfortable with this situation need to talk to lawyers with expertise in privacy/digital privacy to find out their options. I also think that it's really important to advocate for better data security from schools. I believe there are other threads focused on that.

I think this conversation is important to have in this space--so I hope everyone can take a step back from anger/frustration and generate productive ideas about what are the options and concerns for parents who are uncomfortable with the idea that a private person has accessed a lot of kids private data and we don't know what she has done/is doing/will do with it--and whether anyone has access to it and the level of security.

All great points. What baffles me on this is

1) why weren’t these people so irate 2 years ago when the same thing happened….with her? Is it the letter that came home or is everyone suddenly an advocate for digital privacy or are there paid actors on this post to take the heat off fcps?

2) Why is there such outrage she gave the data to a trusted reporter? Would you prefer she kept her findings quiet and sold the data on the black market and you weren’t aware for the next 10 years? Is this really a case of ignorance is bliss? With as common as these leaks are, this is an actual possibility. Nobody should be given more data than they are entitled to, period. Not one. Not 35,000.

I get people have questions. But there are people on this post inflaming the situation greatly with outright disinformation.

Since this is clearly coming from an Oettinger supporter, what you're saying here is that parents should be grateful she didn't hold this data for ransom and/or try to profit on it by selling it on the black market? I mean, I suppose she still could. Provide access to this database for a fee to anyone willing to pay.

I’m not a Callie supporter. I just have common sense and strong reasoning skills. It’s a curse in this area.

Oh, fun. I love seeing Dunning–Kruger in action.

[Anonymous]

I cannot believe people are happy to ONLY blame FCPS but not a clearly ethically challenged woman.

I wonder how many of you stanning for Callie got letters. It’s bad enough that the FCPS parents for literacy Facebook group is apparently kissing her butt. Maybe because she was expelled from at least one sped Facebook group for breaking the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at it this way. If someone breaks into Targets IT systems and steals the data, that’s a criminal act. If Target willingly hands it over, Target is the culpable party. If you sue Callie, she’ll file for bankruptcy, we get no benefit, and this stuff keeps happening. FCPS cares nothing about privacy of data. If they did, they would have spent the money on it last time this happened.

Nope. FCPS didn't "willingly" hand it over--it was accidental. And made more likely to happen by the endless badgering for information by Callie in an already stressed public school system. The real crime is that Callie "willingly" shared that information with others and published it online.
Unintentional leaks don't allow you to do whatever you want with the goods. We can sue Callie who intentionally acted wrongly with information AND we can lobby for better privacy protection. I think it's incredibly important to punish her and to deter people who think they can act with impunity with data that doesn't belong to them because they have some cause they are invested in.

It seems you don’t care that FCPS has no process to ensure this doesn’t happen. I don’t know Callie, but at least she scrubbed the data. What happens next time when a nefarious character doesn’t? Then what? What if it’s your kids’s personal non-scrubbed data out there that is used against them in the future. Then will you still feel like it’s not the school’s job? That they’re stressed and it’s a mistake? BS. FCPS has the responsibility to protect data, by state and federal laws. They have failed multiple times and do nothing to change it. And here you are making excuses they’re busy or stressed. What’s next? Blame the kids for having personal information?

Did you not notice that I said "AND" lobby for better privacy protection. But I work with data in a government setting--I know there are data and privacy errors all the time and we have a huge budget to protect this because we work with healthcare data. We have so much more money and there are still tons of human errors. School systems have to share information--they have to share IEP records, they have to share accommodations across teachers--to expect that they will never make mistakes is just unrealistic. Should there be more national level privacy data systems and strict protocol like they have in healthcare--yes, and people are working on that.

But only one person willingly acted wrongly with information and that person needs to be punished. She didn't scrub the data--she shared it identified with others first who decided to scrub the data AND they collectively decided to post it publicly??? She gave others access to the private data of 35000 kids knowingly. How can you POSSIBLY be advocating for not going after her??

As this thread has gone off into a territory with some people saying she should go to jail, others saying she's a hero, and others worrying she's posted all the data online-- I think it's important everyone be accurate. I don't want to be someone contributing to misinformation so in the spirit of getting productive conversation rather than back and forth recriminations--I went back and looked at what I've said to check. I may have wrote this post (I at least thought something like this!) and if so, I wanted to clarify it:

My current understanding is that we really don't know for sure what we shared with others. She wrote that she shared the information with a trusted journalist, but we don't know exactly what she shared though we can see that the journalist posted some images of what looks like sample files on line. We also can see files with partially redacted information posted on her website--files that in my opinion have too much identifiable information even if they don't have names. I don't have the heart to search for more based on what has already been found. I feel like I'm invading others' privacy by searching.

I think any parents whose children's data she had access to and who are not comfortable with this situation need to talk to lawyers with expertise in privacy/digital privacy to find out their options. I also think that it's really important to advocate for better data security from schools. I believe there are other threads focused on that.

I think this conversation is important to have in this space--so I hope everyone can take a step back from anger/frustration and generate productive ideas about what are the options and concerns for parents who are uncomfortable with the idea that a private person has accessed a lot of kids private data and we don't know what she has done/is doing/will do with it--and whether anyone has access to it and the level of security.

All great points. What baffles me on this is

1) why weren’t these people so irate 2 years ago when the same thing happened….with her? Is it the letter that came home or is everyone suddenly an advocate for digital privacy or are there paid actors on this post to take the heat off fcps?

2) Why is there such outrage she gave the data to a trusted reporter? Would you prefer she kept her findings quiet and sold the data on the black market and you weren’t aware for the next 10 years? Is this really a case of ignorance is bliss? With as common as these leaks are, this is an actual possibility. Nobody should be given more data than they are entitled to, period. Not one. Not 35,000.

I get people have questions. But there are people on this post inflaming the situation greatly with outright disinformation.

Since this is clearly coming from an Oettinger supporter, what you're saying here is that parents should be grateful she didn't hold this data for ransom and/or try to profit on it by selling it on the black market? I mean, I suppose she still could. Provide access to this database for a fee to anyone willing to pay.

I’m not a Callie supporter. I just have common sense and strong reasoning skills. It’s a curse in this area.

Oh, fun. I love seeing Dunning–Kruger in action.

It’s not Dunning Kruger. This really is common sense. Im sorry to tell you that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe people are happy to ONLY blame FCPS but not a clearly ethically challenged woman.

I wonder how many of you stanning for Callie got letters. It’s bad enough that the FCPS parents for literacy Facebook group is apparently kissing her butt. Maybe because she was expelled from at least one sped Facebook group for breaking the rules.

I’m not happy about it, but the facts are the law is on her side. Once fcps let the data go, it’s out there. I’m super pissed they let this happen. 1 student from 1 school turned into 35000 kids from dozens of schools. This call to action should be to stop fcps from being a sieve with our kids data.

[Anonymous]

I have 2 kids. One has a very simple IEP for speech articulation. One has an enormous file with FCPS going back 15 years full of extremely sensitive psychiatric, mental health, behavior data, hospitalizations, medications. Its the second kid whose data was shared but not the first. What kind of spreadsheet or file was FCPS keeping where my mentally ill dc's information was compiled (we live nowhere near Oetinger's school pyramid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids. One has a very simple IEP for speech articulation. One has an enormous file with FCPS going back 15 years full of extremely sensitive psychiatric, mental health, behavior data, hospitalizations, medications. Its the second kid whose data was shared but not the first. What kind of spreadsheet or file was FCPS keeping where my mentally ill dc's information was compiled (we live nowhere near Oetinger's school pyramid).

Fwiw, my kid with a simple speech articulation IEP was part of the data shared.

[Anonymous]

If your kid is not in the same region or pyramid as the parent's, but your one kid's information was shared but not the other, it does make you wonder what kind of reports FCPS is compiling on kids with complex psychiatric issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have 2 kids. One has a very simple IEP for speech articulation. One has an enormous file with FCPS going back 15 years full of extremely sensitive psychiatric, mental health, behavior data, hospitalizations, medications. Its the second kid whose data was shared but not the first. What kind of spreadsheet or file was FCPS keeping where my mentally ill dc's information was compiled (we live nowhere near Oetinger's school pyramid).

Terrible. And the sad fact is they’ve probably handed out this info to dozens of other parents. The p in FCPS stands for public for many reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe people are happy to ONLY blame FCPS but not a clearly ethically challenged woman.

I wonder how many of you stanning for Callie got letters. It’s bad enough that the FCPS parents for literacy Facebook group is apparently kissing her butt. Maybe because she was expelled from at least one sped Facebook group for breaking the rules.

I’m not happy about it, but the facts are the law is on her side. Once fcps let the data go, it’s out there. I’m super pissed they let this happen. 1 student from 1 school turned into 35000 kids from dozens of schools. This call to action should be to stop fcps from being a sieve with our kids data.

OK.

.....and we can also be upset that Callie is exploiting private medical information of 35,000 families without their consent.

[Anonymous]

My child was in a residential placement for severe mental health issues for several years prior and at the time the data was given to this parent. We are not in that region. What on earth kind of report or information did they give her about my kid? Its maddening.

How did this random FCPS employee even have access to all of this information? If you work for FCPS, can you just login and see anything you want?

[Anonymous]

So many parents of kids with mental health issues posting on here. I wonder if they had some kind of report or document about hospitalized kids or something. That's pretty much the absolute most kind of sensitive information FCPS could possibly have and they just let anyone access it?

What a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe people are happy to ONLY blame FCPS but not a clearly ethically challenged woman.

I wonder how many of you stanning for Callie got letters. It’s bad enough that the FCPS parents for literacy Facebook group is apparently kissing her butt. Maybe because she was expelled from at least one sped Facebook group for breaking the rules.

I’m not happy about it, but the facts are the law is on her side. Once fcps let the data go, it’s out there. I’m super pissed they let this happen. 1 student from 1 school turned into 35000 kids from dozens of schools. This call to action should be to stop fcps from being a sieve with our kids data.

OK.

.....and we can also be upset that Callie is exploiting private medical information of 35,000 families without their consent.

Absolutely fair. But the grand vision of getting a million dollar judgment against Callie while she’s serving a 10 year prison sentence is setting people up for false expectations. People who are scared because they don’t know what’s been released by fcps and equifax won’t give them any details. Be upset. Advocate for change. But we’re living in the USA, not Fantsyland.