Can I sue Callie Oettinger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at it this way. If someone breaks into Targets IT systems and steals the data, that’s a criminal act. If Target willingly hands it over, Target is the culpable party. If you sue Callie, she’ll file for bankruptcy, we get no benefit, and this stuff keeps happening. FCPS cares nothing about privacy of data. If they did, they would have spent the money on it last time this happened.

Nope. FCPS didn't "willingly" hand it over--it was accidental. And made more likely to happen by the endless badgering for information by Callie in an already stressed public school system. The real crime is that Callie "willingly" shared that information with others and published it online.
Unintentional leaks don't allow you to do whatever you want with the goods. We can sue Callie who intentionally acted wrongly with information AND we can lobby for better privacy protection. I think it's incredibly important to punish her and to deter people who think they can act with impunity with data that doesn't belong to them because they have some cause they are invested in.

It seems you don’t care that FCPS has no process to ensure this doesn’t happen. I don’t know Callie, but at least she scrubbed the data. What happens next time when a nefarious character doesn’t? Then what? What if it’s your kids’s personal non-scrubbed data out there that is used against them in the future. Then will you still feel like it’s not the school’s job? That they’re stressed and it’s a mistake? BS. FCPS has the responsibility to protect data, by state and federal laws. They have failed multiple times and do nothing to change it. And here you are making excuses they’re busy or stressed. What’s next? Blame the kids for having personal information?

Did you not notice that I said "AND" lobby for better privacy protection. But I work with data in a government setting--I know there are data and privacy errors all the time and we have a huge budget to protect this because we work with healthcare data. We have so much more money and there are still tons of human errors. School systems have to share information--they have to share IEP records, they have to share accommodations across teachers--to expect that they will never make mistakes is just unrealistic. Should there be more national level privacy data systems and strict protocol like they have in healthcare--yes, and people are working on that.

But only one person willingly acted wrongly with information and that person needs to be punished. She didn't scrub the data--she shared it identified with others first who decided to scrub the data AND they collectively decided to post it publicly??? She gave others access to the private data of 35000 kids knowingly. How can you POSSIBLY be advocating for not going after her??

As this thread has gone off into a territory with some people saying she should go to jail, others saying she's a hero, and others worrying she's posted all the data online-- I think it's important everyone be accurate. I don't want to be someone contributing to misinformation so in the spirit of getting productive conversation rather than back and forth recriminations--I went back and looked at what I've said to check. I may have wrote this post (I at least thought something like this!) and if so, I wanted to clarify it:

My current understanding is that we really don't know for sure what we shared with others. She wrote that she shared the information with a trusted journalist, but we don't know exactly what she shared though we can see that the journalist posted some images of what looks like sample files on line. We also can see files with partially redacted information posted on her website--files that in my opinion have too much identifiable information even if they don't have names. I don't have the heart to search for more based on what has already been found. I feel like I'm invading others' privacy by searching.

I think any parents whose children's data she had access to and who are not comfortable with this situation need to talk to lawyers with expertise in privacy/digital privacy to find out their options. I also think that it's really important to advocate for better data security from schools. I believe there are other threads focused on that.

I think this conversation is important to have in this space--so I hope everyone can take a step back from anger/frustration and generate productive ideas about what are the options and concerns for parents who are uncomfortable with the idea that a private person has accessed a lot of kids private data and we don't know what she has done/is doing/will do with it--and whether anyone has access to it and the level of security.

All great points. What baffles me on this is

1) why weren’t these people so irate 2 years ago when the same thing happened….with her? Is it the letter that came home or is everyone suddenly an advocate for digital privacy or are there paid actors on this post to take the heat off fcps?

2) Why is there such outrage she gave the data to a trusted reporter? Would you prefer she kept her findings quiet and sold the data on the black market and you weren’t aware for the next 10 years? Is this really a case of ignorance is bliss? With as common as these leaks are, this is an actual possibility. Nobody should be given more data than they are entitled to, period. Not one. Not 35,000.

I get people have questions. But there are people on this post inflaming the situation greatly with outright disinformation.

This happens literally all the time. It was a matter of time before someone used the data. At least it was somewhat redacted and not posted in full by some teenagers on 4chan

This is my fear too. And fcps’s cybersecurity is so weak, it could be years before it was discovered a (or 35,000) ssn’s were compromised and used on the dark web to default on lines of credit or medical bills.

Not to mention that Oettinger also had/has all this data, seems to have shared it, and we have no idea about her/their cybersecurity!

She's not going to be stealing your kids SSN numbers

How can you be so sure? We don't know who else saw the data because of her.

+1

She has already demonstrated that she’s unscrupulous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is at fault, like wtf

Fcps has a lot of people hired especially to post on DCUM, apparently

Or they are like me a parent who believe we should be able to do something about a private individual keeping, reading, using private data without consent.
It’s not like there’s not enough fault to around in this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As parents, we did not authorize Callie Oettinger to give our child's information to Timothy Sandefur.

You don’t get that right. You lost control of the data when you gave it to fcps. See “pentagon papers”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As parents, we did not authorize Callie Oettinger to give our child's information to Timothy Sandefur.

You don’t get that right. You lost control of the data when you gave it to fcps. See “pentagon papers”.

No, they cannot give out personal info without parental consent. FCPS didn’t have the authorization to share. She has the data without the proper authorization. AND she distributed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please share contact info or instructions for filing any type of suit against Callie.

Please share any contact info or experience with determining from Callie the data she has about your child.

Legalzoom.com.

[Anonymous]

If folks are interested in a class action litigation suit, can someone discuss how to organize ourselves. I can look for a proper law firm that can handle the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is at fault, like wtf

Fcps has a lot of people hired especially to post on DCUM, apparently

Right. It couldn’t be any of 35,000 families who are affected. Who are disgusted by her actions.

THIS. Like 35,000 times. I bet she is enjoying watching all of us parents worry and freak out. Horrible woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If folks are interested in a class action litigation suit, can someone discuss how to organize ourselves. I can look for a proper law firm that can handle the case.

I think an anonymous public forum is not the best venue for organizing. I would recommend on your own contact an organization concerned with digital privacy and legal issues and then ask them on how best to proceed organizing this. I am a parent of a kid in FCPS who initially thought my kid/s were directly impacted, but I have not received a letter so I think it would be better coming from a parent who was directly affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at it this way. If someone breaks into Targets IT systems and steals the data, that’s a criminal act. If Target willingly hands it over, Target is the culpable party. If you sue Callie, she’ll file for bankruptcy, we get no benefit, and this stuff keeps happening. FCPS cares nothing about privacy of data. If they did, they would have spent the money on it last time this happened.

Nope. FCPS didn't "willingly" hand it over--it was accidental. And made more likely to happen by the endless badgering for information by Callie in an already stressed public school system. The real crime is that Callie "willingly" shared that information with others and published it online.
Unintentional leaks don't allow you to do whatever you want with the goods. We can sue Callie who intentionally acted wrongly with information AND we can lobby for better privacy protection. I think it's incredibly important to punish her and to deter people who think they can act with impunity with data that doesn't belong to them because they have some cause they are invested in.

It seems you don’t care that FCPS has no process to ensure this doesn’t happen. I don’t know Callie, but at least she scrubbed the data. What happens next time when a nefarious character doesn’t? Then what? What if it’s your kids’s personal non-scrubbed data out there that is used against them in the future. Then will you still feel like it’s not the school’s job? That they’re stressed and it’s a mistake? BS. FCPS has the responsibility to protect data, by state and federal laws. They have failed multiple times and do nothing to change it. And here you are making excuses they’re busy or stressed. What’s next? Blame the kids for having personal information?

Did you not notice that I said "AND" lobby for better privacy protection. But I work with data in a government setting--I know there are data and privacy errors all the time and we have a huge budget to protect this because we work with healthcare data. We have so much more money and there are still tons of human errors. School systems have to share information--they have to share IEP records, they have to share accommodations across teachers--to expect that they will never make mistakes is just unrealistic. Should there be more national level privacy data systems and strict protocol like they have in healthcare--yes, and people are working on that.

But only one person willingly acted wrongly with information and that person needs to be punished. She didn't scrub the data--she shared it identified with others first who decided to scrub the data AND they collectively decided to post it publicly??? She gave others access to the private data of 35000 kids knowingly. How can you POSSIBLY be advocating for not going after her??

As this thread has gone off into a territory with some people saying she should go to jail, others saying she's a hero, and others worrying she's posted all the data online-- I think it's important everyone be accurate. I don't want to be someone contributing to misinformation so in the spirit of getting productive conversation rather than back and forth recriminations--I went back and looked at what I've said to check. I may have wrote this post (I at least thought something like this!) and if so, I wanted to clarify it:

My current understanding is that we really don't know for sure what we shared with others. She wrote that she shared the information with a trusted journalist, but we don't know exactly what she shared though we can see that the journalist posted some images of what looks like sample files on line. We also can see files with partially redacted information posted on her website--files that in my opinion have too much identifiable information even if they don't have names. I don't have the heart to search for more based on what has already been found. I feel like I'm invading others' privacy by searching.

I think any parents whose children's data she had access to and who are not comfortable with this situation need to talk to lawyers with expertise in privacy/digital privacy to find out their options. I also think that it's really important to advocate for better data security from schools. I believe there are other threads focused on that.

I think this conversation is important to have in this space--so I hope everyone can take a step back from anger/frustration and generate productive ideas about what are the options and concerns for parents who are uncomfortable with the idea that a private person has accessed a lot of kids private data and we don't know what she has done/is doing/will do with it--and whether anyone has access to it and the level of security.

All great points. What baffles me on this is

1) why weren’t these people so irate 2 years ago when the same thing happened….with her? Is it the letter that came home or is everyone suddenly an advocate for digital privacy or are there paid actors on this post to take the heat off fcps?

2) Why is there such outrage she gave the data to a trusted reporter? Would you prefer she kept her findings quiet and sold the data on the black market and you weren’t aware for the next 10 years? Is this really a case of ignorance is bliss? With as common as these leaks are, this is an actual possibility. Nobody should be given more data than they are entitled to, period. Not one. Not 35,000.

I get people have questions. But there are people on this post inflaming the situation greatly with outright disinformation.

Since this is clearly coming from an Oettinger supporter, what you're saying here is that parents should be grateful she didn't hold this data for ransom and/or try to profit on it by selling it on the black market? I mean, I suppose she still could. Provide access to this database for a fee to anyone willing to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is at fault, like wtf

Fcps has a lot of people hired especially to post on DCUM, apparently

Right. It couldn’t be any of 35,000 families who are affected. Who are disgusted by her actions.

THIS. Like 35,000 times. I bet she is enjoying watching all of us parents worry and freak out. Horrible woman.

D
She definitely did something wrong, but a judge ordered FCPS to give her her kids data. Why did it go to court?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at it this way. If someone breaks into Targets IT systems and steals the data, that’s a criminal act. If Target willingly hands it over, Target is the culpable party. If you sue Callie, she’ll file for bankruptcy, we get no benefit, and this stuff keeps happening. FCPS cares nothing about privacy of data. If they did, they would have spent the money on it last time this happened.

Nope. FCPS didn't "willingly" hand it over--it was accidental. And made more likely to happen by the endless badgering for information by Callie in an already stressed public school system. The real crime is that Callie "willingly" shared that information with others and published it online.
Unintentional leaks don't allow you to do whatever you want with the goods. We can sue Callie who intentionally acted wrongly with information AND we can lobby for better privacy protection. I think it's incredibly important to punish her and to deter people who think they can act with impunity with data that doesn't belong to them because they have some cause they are invested in.

It seems you don’t care that FCPS has no process to ensure this doesn’t happen. I don’t know Callie, but at least she scrubbed the data. What happens next time when a nefarious character doesn’t? Then what? What if it’s your kids’s personal non-scrubbed data out there that is used against them in the future. Then will you still feel like it’s not the school’s job? That they’re stressed and it’s a mistake? BS. FCPS has the responsibility to protect data, by state and federal laws. They have failed multiple times and do nothing to change it. And here you are making excuses they’re busy or stressed. What’s next? Blame the kids for having personal information?

Did you not notice that I said "AND" lobby for better privacy protection. But I work with data in a government setting--I know there are data and privacy errors all the time and we have a huge budget to protect this because we work with healthcare data. We have so much more money and there are still tons of human errors. School systems have to share information--they have to share IEP records, they have to share accommodations across teachers--to expect that they will never make mistakes is just unrealistic. Should there be more national level privacy data systems and strict protocol like they have in healthcare--yes, and people are working on that.

But only one person willingly acted wrongly with information and that person needs to be punished. She didn't scrub the data--she shared it identified with others first who decided to scrub the data AND they collectively decided to post it publicly??? She gave others access to the private data of 35000 kids knowingly. How can you POSSIBLY be advocating for not going after her??

As this thread has gone off into a territory with some people saying she should go to jail, others saying she's a hero, and others worrying she's posted all the data online-- I think it's important everyone be accurate. I don't want to be someone contributing to misinformation so in the spirit of getting productive conversation rather than back and forth recriminations--I went back and looked at what I've said to check. I may have wrote this post (I at least thought something like this!) and if so, I wanted to clarify it:

My current understanding is that we really don't know for sure what we shared with others. She wrote that she shared the information with a trusted journalist, but we don't know exactly what she shared though we can see that the journalist posted some images of what looks like sample files on line. We also can see files with partially redacted information posted on her website--files that in my opinion have too much identifiable information even if they don't have names. I don't have the heart to search for more based on what has already been found. I feel like I'm invading others' privacy by searching.

I think any parents whose children's data she had access to and who are not comfortable with this situation need to talk to lawyers with expertise in privacy/digital privacy to find out their options. I also think that it's really important to advocate for better data security from schools. I believe there are other threads focused on that.

I think this conversation is important to have in this space--so I hope everyone can take a step back from anger/frustration and generate productive ideas about what are the options and concerns for parents who are uncomfortable with the idea that a private person has accessed a lot of kids private data and we don't know what she has done/is doing/will do with it--and whether anyone has access to it and the level of security.

All great points. What baffles me on this is

1) why weren’t these people so irate 2 years ago when the same thing happened….with her? Is it the letter that came home or is everyone suddenly an advocate for digital privacy or are there paid actors on this post to take the heat off fcps?

2) Why is there such outrage she gave the data to a trusted reporter? Would you prefer she kept her findings quiet and sold the data on the black market and you weren’t aware for the next 10 years? Is this really a case of ignorance is bliss? With as common as these leaks are, this is an actual possibility. Nobody should be given more data than they are entitled to, period. Not one. Not 35,000.

I get people have questions. But there are people on this post inflaming the situation greatly with outright disinformation.

Since this is clearly coming from an Oettinger supporter, what you're saying here is that parents should be grateful she didn't hold this data for ransom and/or try to profit on it by selling it on the black market? I mean, I suppose she still could. Provide access to this database for a fee to anyone willing to pay.

I’m not a Callie supporter. I just have common sense and strong reasoning skills. It’s a curse in this area.

[Anonymous]

This is one of the reasons why we opt out of all the surveys, such as the SEL screener or youth survey. You never know who is going to see those responses.

[Anonymous]

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is at fault, like wtf

Fcps has a lot of people hired especially to post on DCUM, apparently

Or they are like me a parent who believe we should be able to do something about a private individual keeping, reading, using private data without consent.
It’s not like there’s not enough fault to around in this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at it this way. If someone breaks into Targets IT systems and steals the data, that’s a criminal act. If Target willingly hands it over, Target is the culpable party. If you sue Callie, she’ll file for bankruptcy, we get no benefit, and this stuff keeps happening. FCPS cares nothing about privacy of data. If they did, they would have spent the money on it last time this happened.

Nope. FCPS didn't "willingly" hand it over--it was accidental. And made more likely to happen by the endless badgering for information by Callie in an already stressed public school system. The real crime is that Callie "willingly" shared that information with others and published it online.
Unintentional leaks don't allow you to do whatever you want with the goods. We can sue Callie who intentionally acted wrongly with information AND we can lobby for better privacy protection. I think it's incredibly important to punish her and to deter people who think they can act with impunity with data that doesn't belong to them because they have some cause they are invested in.

It seems you don’t care that FCPS has no process to ensure this doesn’t happen. I don’t know Callie, but at least she scrubbed the data. What happens next time when a nefarious character doesn’t? Then what? What if it’s your kids’s personal non-scrubbed data out there that is used against them in the future. Then will you still feel like it’s not the school’s job? That they’re stressed and it’s a mistake? BS. FCPS has the responsibility to protect data, by state and federal laws. They have failed multiple times and do nothing to change it. And here you are making excuses they’re busy or stressed. What’s next? Blame the kids for having personal information?

Did you not notice that I said "AND" lobby for better privacy protection. But I work with data in a government setting--I know there are data and privacy errors all the time and we have a huge budget to protect this because we work with healthcare data. We have so much more money and there are still tons of human errors. School systems have to share information--they have to share IEP records, they have to share accommodations across teachers--to expect that they will never make mistakes is just unrealistic. Should there be more national level privacy data systems and strict protocol like they have in healthcare--yes, and people are working on that.

But only one person willingly acted wrongly with information and that person needs to be punished. She didn't scrub the data--she shared it identified with others first who decided to scrub the data AND they collectively decided to post it publicly??? She gave others access to the private data of 35000 kids knowingly. How can you POSSIBLY be advocating for not going after her??

As this thread has gone off into a territory with some people saying she should go to jail, others saying she's a hero, and others worrying she's posted all the data online-- I think it's important everyone be accurate. I don't want to be someone contributing to misinformation so in the spirit of getting productive conversation rather than back and forth recriminations--I went back and looked at what I've said to check. I may have wrote this post (I at least thought something like this!) and if so, I wanted to clarify it:

My current understanding is that we really don't know for sure what we shared with others. She wrote that she shared the information with a trusted journalist, but we don't know exactly what she shared though we can see that the journalist posted some images of what looks like sample files on line. We also can see files with partially redacted information posted on her website--files that in my opinion have too much identifiable information even if they don't have names. I don't have the heart to search for more based on what has already been found. I feel like I'm invading others' privacy by searching.

I think any parents whose children's data she had access to and who are not comfortable with this situation need to talk to lawyers with expertise in privacy/digital privacy to find out their options. I also think that it's really important to advocate for better data security from schools. I believe there are other threads focused on that.

I think this conversation is important to have in this space--so I hope everyone can take a step back from anger/frustration and generate productive ideas about what are the options and concerns for parents who are uncomfortable with the idea that a private person has accessed a lot of kids private data and we don't know what she has done/is doing/will do with it--and whether anyone has access to it and the level of security.

All great points. What baffles me on this is

1) why weren’t these people so irate 2 years ago when the same thing happened….with her? Is it the letter that came home or is everyone suddenly an advocate for digital privacy or are there paid actors on this post to take the heat off fcps?

2) Why is there such outrage she gave the data to a trusted reporter? Would you prefer she kept her findings quiet and sold the data on the black market and you weren’t aware for the next 10 years? Is this really a case of ignorance is bliss? With as common as these leaks are, this is an actual possibility. Nobody should be given more data than they are entitled to, period. Not one. Not 35,000.

I get people have questions. But there are people on this post inflaming the situation greatly with outright disinformation.

Since this is clearly coming from an Oettinger supporter, what you're saying here is that parents should be grateful she didn't hold this data for ransom and/or try to profit on it by selling it on the black market? I mean, I suppose she still could. Provide access to this database for a fee to anyone willing to pay.

I am grateful. The security is so lax, anyone could get it and anyone could do anything with it. You want to cut one branch off of the tree and call it fixed.

[Anonymous]

Callie Oettinger apparently. Because she believes she owns it and has the right to poke through and cherry pick what she wants AND EVEN CONTACT OTHER PARENTS.

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the reasons why we opt out of all the surveys, such as the SEL screener or youth survey. You never know who is going to see those responses.