Local writer quoted in WP saying that she "plays dumb" around SAHMs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only place I ever encounter S/W mom animosity is here. In the real world we all get along and try hard to support one another.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree. There is a good mix of SAHM and WM at my son's preschool. Sometimes it is hard to tell which is which. We talk about our kids, life, etc. We never talk politics or work or any other similar boring issue. This whole thread is bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only place I ever encounter S/W mom animosity is here. In the real world we all get along and try hard to support one another.

Agreed.

In the real world people just hide their true feelings. I have heard a very good "friend" who is a SAHM lash out about WMs to a group of other SAHMs (also my "friends") when she did not realize I was within earshot. She was talking about how sad kids with nannies seem at the playground and how WOHMs did not really know their kids etc., etc. It was not so much what she said as much as the anger and venom in her facial expression and tone if voice. I was the only WOHM there and I was shocked at the venom. I would never have guessed she felt that way since to my face she is always supportive if my WOH status and she is always telling me how she wishes she could work but did not since her earning potential as a teacher was so low. I always encourage het by saying how lucky she is not having to work. I think friends just hide their true feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only place I ever encounter S/W mom animosity is here. In the real world we all get along and try hard to support one another.

In response to this, I'm curious as to whether you stay at home or work outside of the home and who your close friends are.

I work; my close friends (who know me VERY well) work. Some of my acquaintances, mothers of children who are friends with my kids, stay at home.

When I stayed home for a brief period and was surrounded by "acquaintances," I had to watch what I said about my SAH situation for fear of offending these other SAHMs. If I pointed out the drawbacks of staying home and how much I missed using my mind, I offended many. So I kept my distance and only spoke about superficial topics.

I think you're fooling yourself, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only place I ever encounter S/W mom animosity is here. In the real world we all get along and try hard to support one another.

Agreed.

In the real world people just hide their true feelings. I have heard a very good "friend" who is a SAHM lash out about WMs to a group of other SAHMs (also my "friends") when she did not realize I was within earshot. She was talking about how sad kids with nannies seem at the playground and how WOHMs did not really know their kids etc., etc. It was not so much what she said as much as the anger and venom in her facial expression and tone if voice. I was the only WOHM there and I was shocked at the venom. I would never have guessed she felt that way since to my face she is always supportive of my WOH status and she is always telling me how she wishes she could work but did not since her earning potential as a teacher was so low. I always encourage het by saying how lucky she is not having to work. I think friends just hide their true feelings.

jealousy, I imagine

Many SAHMs I've met never had a career; they had jobs which were not fulfilling. So to them, staying at home becomes a job. I'm not saying that SAHMs have it easy. But for some, knowing that they never quite worked in a profession that was "more than a job," staying home takes on more meaning and they are the first to defend their roles. Sadly, some guilt working moms into thinking that WMs put themselves ahead of their children.

Personally, I think if a woman loves her career and comes home happy after a busy day, her children also benefit from that. Furthermore, creating boundaries with your children is healthy and instills in them a sense of independence. At least that's been my case.

[Anonymous]

I've been both a SAHM and have WOHM (part-time) mom, and while I think the WM/SAHM mom wars are stupid (because these choices are based on such a variety of individual factors), I have to say quite honestly that I cannot recall a single nasty comment by a SAHM about WOHMs. On the other hand, I've heard several WOHMs comment that SAHMs need to "get a life" -- a particularly nasty thing to say since it's often aimed at women who volunteer extensively in their kids' schools, thus improving the school and offering opprotunities to all kids, not only their own. I've also seen WOHMs manufacture conspiracties between among SAHMs and between SAHMs and school administrators when things don't go well for their own children -- e.g., a WOHM who confided to me that the SAHMs were intentionally keeping her daughter out of a Brownie troop because she was not a SAHM; a WOHM who told me that SAHMs who volunteer in her son's school get preferential treatment for their kids from the principal. Again, I don't want to start a war here and I've been on both sides of it, but for whatever reason, in my experience the WOHMs often seem a little defensive about their choice and it comes out as nastiness toward SAHMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Personally, I think if a woman loves her career and comes home happy after a busy day, her children also benefit from that. Furthermore, creating boundaries with your children is healthy and instills in them a sense of independence. At least that's been my case.

Stay-at-home moms are also able to create healthy boundaries and instill independence in their children, as I'm sure you realize.

[Anonymous]

"Many SAHMs I've met never had a career; they had jobs which were not fulfilling. So to them, staying at home becomes a job. I'm not saying that SAHMs have it easy. But for some, knowing that they never quite worked in a profession that was "more than a job," staying home takes on more meaning and they are the first to defend their roles. Sadly, some guilt working moms into thinking that WMs put themselves ahead of their children. "

This is ludicrous, and is one of the common canards made by WOHMs against SAHMs. In my circle of close friends who are now SAHMs, there are the following former progfessions represented: social worker, lawyer (several), public relations executive, teacher, interior designer, public health goverment employee, etc.

It is simply not true that most SAHMs didn't have fulfilling careers. What is true is that many had fulfilling professions that don't pay well (social worker, teacher), so economically, it made sense not to work. It doesn't mean these women are unintellectual, uneducated, or didn't have meaningful careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Many SAHMs I've met never had a career; they had jobs which were not fulfilling. So to them, staying at home becomes a job. I'm not saying that SAHMs have it easy. But for some, knowing that they never quite worked in a profession that was "more than a job," staying home takes on more meaning and they are the first to defend their roles. Sadly, some guilt working moms into thinking that WMs put themselves ahead of their children. "

This is ludicrous, and is one of the common canards made by WOHMs against SAHMs. In my circle of close friends who are now SAHMs, there are the following former progfessions represented: social worker, lawyer (several), public relations executive, teacher, interior designer, public health goverment employee, etc.

It is simply not true that most SAHMs didn't have fulfilling careers. What is true is that many had fulfilling professions that don't pay well (social worker, teacher), so economically, it made sense not to work. It doesn't mean these women are unintellectual, uneducated, or didn't have meaningful careers.

Many SAHMs I know, including myself, also worked in very demanding, professional jobs for many years. Because we didn't have kids until we were well into our 30s and had already achieved a considerable degree of professional success, we were more likely to say, "I've don the career thing for a while; I'm ready to do the mom thing now."' Since then, some have returned to work, but others, like myself, have found other pursuits to be as compelling as paid work. Many of us have extensive volunteer commitments in our kids' schools and in our communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been both a SAHM and have WOHM (part-time) mom, and while I think the WM/SAHM mom wars are stupid (because these choices are based on such a variety of individual factors), I have to say quite honestly that I cannot recall a single nasty comment by a SAHM about WOHMs. On the other hand, I've heard several WOHMs comment that SAHMs need to "get a life" -- a particularly nasty thing to say since it's often aimed at women who volunteer extensively in their kids' schools, thus improving the school and offering opprotunities to all kids, not only their own. I've also seen WOHMs manufacture conspiracties between among SAHMs and between SAHMs and school administrators when things don't go well for their own children -- e.g., a WOHM who confided to me that the SAHMs were intentionally keeping her daughter out of a Brownie troop because she was not a SAHM; a WOHM who told me that SAHMs who volunteer in her son's school get preferential treatment for their kids from the principal. Again, I don't want to start a war here and I've been on both sides of it, but for whatever reason, in my experience the WOHMs often seem a little defensive about their choice and it comes out as nastiness toward SAHMs.

As a WM I have to take issue with this. Not saying your experience doesn't ring true, but I've heard my share of, "I don't know how you can leave her during the day - I just couldn't!" and "Do you even get to see her before she goes to sleep at night?" Laughable given my schedule - I work about 32 hours a week, so yes, I do see her before bed!

I think it's unfair to paint the picture that only WMs start this crap. It's on both sides. Just read this board for a few weeks - it's on BOTH sides.

I also disagree with the common refrain on DCUM that a lot of SAHMs never had "careers" anyway. I think the opposite is true - many worked 50 hour weeks as do their husbands so they can't imagine my situation, which is that we both work compressed schedules. DH works full time but has a lot of flexibility so doesn't keep traditional hours. I think many women don't know how WMs do it because they are picturing intense schedules by both spouses. Honestly, if I had to work long hours and DH did too, I don't think I could do it. But that's not our reality.

[Anonymous]

I've read lots of Hannah Rosin's pieces (even been interviewed by her once), and I think she's a pretty sharp and astute writer. I kind of get where she was coming from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only place I ever encounter S/W mom animosity is here. In the real world we all get along and try hard to support one another.

Agreed.

In the real world people just hide their true feelings. I have heard a very good "friend" who is a SAHM lash out about WMs to a group of other SAHMs (also my "friends") when she did not realize I was within earshot. She was talking about how sad kids with nannies seem at the playground and how WOHMs did not really know their kids etc., etc. It was not so much what she said as much as the anger and venom in her facial expression and tone if voice. I was the only WOHM there and I was shocked at the venom. I would never have guessed she felt that way since to my face she is always supportive if my WOH status and she is always telling me how she wishes she could work but did not since her earning potential as a teacher was so low. I always encourage het by saying how lucky she is not having to work. I think friends just hide their true feelings.

I'm sure, but you know what? I'm okay with that. I don't need to know that you don't like my toddler's haircut, or the new paint I chose for the living room, or your negative feelings about my work status. If you're happy with your choices, then I'm happy for you. What I want from my friends is their support. I don't need them to agree with all my choices.

[Anonymous]

I think her mistake was thinking of it as or calling it "playing dumb." It's more of a playing-to-your-audience type of thing. Different groups engage in different types of conversations. Some people just don't care about current affairs and never will. (outside of DC, quite a few people don't, and yes, a lot of them are SAHMs.) Some people prefer Jackie Collins to great literature, or romantic comedies to tough, emotionally wrought Oscar-winning films. it's ok.

I'm a WOHM and I know both types of SAHMs - those who are just as engaged in the outside world as they ever were (or close) and those who are definitely immersed in kidville. I probably have more in common with the first type, but I'll still be friends with the second type, because let's face it - between my full-time job and my commute and my kid, I'm probably not leading the same life I was before kids either. I'm certainly not traveling much, I rarely see first-run movies and while I do follow current events, I don't have quite the grasp on some issues that I used to, because I have to prioritize what actually affects me over things that really don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think her mistake was thinking of it as or calling it "playing dumb." It's more of a playing-to-your-audience type of thing. Different groups engage in different types of conversations. Some people just don't care about current affairs and never will. (outside of DC, quite a few people don't, and yes, a lot of them are SAHMs.) Some people prefer Jackie Collins to great literature, or romantic comedies to tough, emotionally wrought Oscar-winning films. it's ok.

I'm a WOHM and I know both types of SAHMs - those who are just as engaged in the outside world as they ever were (or close) and those who are definitely immersed in kidville. I probably have more in common with the first type, but I'll still be friends with the second type, because let's face it - between my full-time job and my commute and my kid, I'm probably not leading the same life I was before kids either. I'm certainly not traveling much, I rarely see first-run movies and while I do follow current events, I don't have quite the grasp on some issues that I used to, because I have to prioritize what actually affects me over things that really don't.

You are giving Rosin too much credit. Her offensive comment wasn't just the actual, literal word "dumb"--it was embedded in the the absurd statement that SAHMs don't read the newspaper.

[Anonymous]

I play dumb around Hannah Rosin.