NPS: Ban Cars Now in DC Urban Parks

[Anonymous]

Uh, 60 is a senior citizen, gramps.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you close it the walk from Buckeye drive to Hains point is 1.5 miles. I would recommend sidewalks instead.

Why should pedestrians and bikers get a tiny sliver, and cars dominate? I am in favor of allowing parking in proximity to some picnic grounds, then closing the rest. Run a shuttle if necessary. If they have to have cars, then put in a speed bump every 20 feet to maintain a 10mph speed limit.

People need to internalize that cars don't get to dominate every single public space.

Speed bumps are good and there’s no reason half the road shouldn’t be allocated to bikes and peds. Hains point is predominantly used for fishing and picnicking, though. These are both things that you need to haul stuff to. I agree there’s no reason for the road to be two lanes for cars. One lane is plenty.

Do you have any evidence to show that people hauling fishing poles is the predominate use of Hains Point? They can park in the northern parking lots and walk to where they want to go, or take a shuttle.

Have you been there? It’s picnics, people fishing, and cyclists doing speed trials.

yes, I've been there. The number of people fishing is far outnumbered by people doing other things. And one usage does not justify letting the whole thing be dominated by cars. The NPS doesn't let cars drive all over other National Parks - they are preserved as natural spaces to see on foot. National Park space in a city is even more precious to preserve as natural and car-free.

The majority of the people on the playground, picnicking, and fishing on a given day drove there and parked their car. The closest realistic shut off point for traffic would be a 3 mile round trip to the point. You aren’t going to be able to get NPS to close this road. Maybe you could close one side and make the remaining side two way instead of a one way loop. That way people could walk or bike on the other side without cars.

No, sorry. It's not a drive-through park. People can park in the northern parking lots and walk. It's really ok to walk.

Actually, it is a park designed to be driven to and then parked within. Are you the same poster who wrote about the Arboretum? Your lack of understanding that various people who use parks have different needs is oddly myopic. You will never win on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you close it the walk from Buckeye drive to Hains point is 1.5 miles. I would recommend sidewalks instead.

Why should pedestrians and bikers get a tiny sliver, and cars dominate? I am in favor of allowing parking in proximity to some picnic grounds, then closing the rest. Run a shuttle if necessary. If they have to have cars, then put in a speed bump every 20 feet to maintain a 10mph speed limit.

People need to internalize that cars don't get to dominate every single public space.

Speed bumps are good and there’s no reason half the road shouldn’t be allocated to bikes and peds. Hains point is predominantly used for fishing and picnicking, though. These are both things that you need to haul stuff to. I agree there’s no reason for the road to be two lanes for cars. One lane is plenty.

Do you have any evidence to show that people hauling fishing poles is the predominate use of Hains Point? They can park in the northern parking lots and walk to where they want to go, or take a shuttle.

Have you been there? It’s picnics, people fishing, and cyclists doing speed trials.

yes, I've been there. The number of people fishing is far outnumbered by people doing other things. And one usage does not justify letting the whole thing be dominated by cars. The NPS doesn't let cars drive all over other National Parks - they are preserved as natural spaces to see on foot. National Park space in a city is even more precious to preserve as natural and car-free.

The majority of the people on the playground, picnicking, and fishing on a given day drove there and parked their car. The closest realistic shut off point for traffic would be a 3 mile round trip to the point. You aren’t going to be able to get NPS to close this road. Maybe you could close one side and make the remaining side two way instead of a one way loop. That way people could walk or bike on the other side without cars.

No, sorry. It's not a drive-through park. People can park in the northern parking lots and walk. It's really ok to walk.

Actually, it is a park designed to be driven to and then parked within. Are you the same poster who wrote about the Arboretum? Your lack of understanding that various people who use parks have different needs is oddly myopic. You will never win on this.

Yes, I’m the same poster (I said that in my OP). And no there is no manifest destiny for cars to drive all over national parks. Limited driving to parking lots is ok, but cars dominate Hains Point. As this horrible incident shoes, accomodating different needs now has to mean restricting cars. And many people are calling for the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, it is a park designed to be driven to and then parked within. Are you the same poster who wrote about the Arboretum? Your lack of understanding that various people who use parks have different needs is oddly myopic. You will never win on this.

Time to change the design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, it is a park designed to be driven to and then parked within. Are you the same poster who wrote about the Arboretum? Your lack of understanding that various people who use parks have different needs is oddly myopic. You will never win on this.

Time to change the design.

And yet design changes that are actually viable like splitting the road for half cars/half bike and peds or closing the Potomac River side road to cars and making the channel side road 2 way aren't good enough? If you really wanted change you would be in favor of these kinds of compromises. Your all or nothing approach makes me think you just really like wearing spandex and riding your bike really fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, it is a park designed to be driven to and then parked within. Are you the same poster who wrote about the Arboretum? Your lack of understanding that various people who use parks have different needs is oddly myopic. You will never win on this.

Time to change the design.

And yet design changes that are actually viable like splitting the road for half cars/half bike and peds or closing the Potomac River side road to cars and making the channel side road 2 way aren't good enough? If you really wanted change you would be in favor of these kinds of compromises. Your all or nothing approach makes me think you just really like wearing spandex and riding your bike really fast.

I'll be happy to discuss those options once the NPS has proposed them.

This obsession with spandex is silly. What do you think makes athleisure athleisure? Even dress clothes have spandex, these days.

[Anonymous]

There are already sidewalks, why can't they just repair those so people can actually use them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are already sidewalks, why can't they just repair those so people can actually use them?

1. Because Hains Point is built on artificial fill and is sinking, while high tides are rising.
2. Because the sidewalks are too narrow to fit everyone.

[Anonymous]

Can we ban bicyclists from DC streets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we ban bicyclists from DC streets?

+1

Bicylists downtown are more dangerous to pedestrains than cars.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:I just came back from a 4 mile walk, half of which was on the closed portion of Beach Drive. I support CM Cheh's effort to keep it closed:

You should hear the old people on the Chevy Chase listserv complain about not being able to access Rock Creek Parkway so they can also enjoy nature. Mind you, there are portions of the parkway that are not currently closed that they can access by car and park. But noooooo, they want to be able to drive to all parts of the parkway and its not fair and discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you close it the walk from Buckeye drive to Hains point is 1.5 miles. I would recommend sidewalks instead.

I'm fine with that, as long as you make the sidewalk 20 feet wide and the road no more than 8 feet wide.

+1

Additionally put up big curbs that cars can't accidentally jump and big speed bumps.

Basically. 10 ft for pedestrians. 10 feet for bikes. 10 feet for cars (with speed bumps/speed cameras). All separated.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sidewalks. People belong on sidewalks. Cars belong in the road.

Roads. Roads belong between cities, not in them.

^^^This is one of the Top 5 stupidest things I’ve ever read on DCUM. ^^^


And considering this place, that’s really saying something.

LOL. I imagine these people were complaining about horse drawn carts and buggies 100 years ago.

No a hundred years ago they were complaining about cars that were pushing people (and horses probably) off of roads.

Considering that they don’t believe that roads should be in cities, I doubt that.

I guess their vision of a city is everyone living in one giant skyscraper. All pedestrian corridors, no roads.

Actually, not the worst idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidewalks. People belong on sidewalks. Cars belong in the road.

Roads. Roads belong between cities, not in them.

^^^This is one of the Top 5 stupidest things I’ve ever read on DCUM. ^^^


And considering this place, that’s really saying something.

LOL. I imagine these people were complaining about horse drawn carts and buggies 100 years ago.

No a hundred years ago they were complaining about cars that were pushing people (and horses probably) off of roads.

Considering that they don’t believe that roads should be in cities, I doubt that.

I guess their vision of a city is everyone living in one giant skyscraper. All pedestrian corridors, no roads.

Actually, not the worst idea.

It's like, have you been to a shopping mall? Or Disney? or a campus?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d like to see all the “no cars” people walk a mile and half with 200lbs of fishing gear, chairs, coolers, food, ice and beverages.

Cool scenario, bro.

What about reality where you're cruising around in 2 tons of metal with nothing but a paperback novel and some weed? I'm not criticizing your choices, just we don't need roads to accommodate people driving cars for that.

Then I’d be totally fine with limiting car access to Haines Point to just vehicles with fishing gear or picnic set-ups.

Deal?

Why does your desire to take 200 lbs of stuff to Hains Point by car for a picnic or fishing, outweigh the desire of people walking, jogging, and biking at Hains Point to not be hit or killed by a driver?

because freedumb