NPS: Ban Cars Now in DC Urban Parks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Of course you don't want the rules to apply to you

By the way, a 15 mph bicycle with all it's pointy metal bits and directed energy is more dangerous than a 15 mph broad, blunt and plastic car.

Not according to the laws of physics (specifically F=ma), it's not.

+1. I can't believe someone thinking that "bluntness" means a car is less dangerous despite being like 20 times more massive.

You people are absolute sociopaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/dc-man-charged-in-bicycle-accident-that-killed-kiplinger-editor/2017/04/13/bd2f2e1e-1f91-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html

This is an argument for having separate bike infrastructure in the park. Right now pedestrians are forced onto the road with cars and bikes. And of course although bikes can cause harm, it’s many orders of magnitude less than cars.

As a side note, calling bike riders “absolute sociopaths” does not lend you much credibility. It makes you seem rather … fixated.

It’s the point that bikes when they do not obey traffics rules can and do routinely cause injury to people and also death. Obey the rules of the road and people don’t get killed. If you cannot and refuse to do so and willingly put others at risk, you are a sociopath.

ok. again pls show me the stats showing bicycles are so deadly to pedestrians?

What are you talking about stats? One death is too many. This is not some risk assessment. As I already said, the fact that you think it’s an acceptable risk to disobey traffic rules when there is risk of injury and death to others is sociopathic by definition.

I’m talking about stats because that’s what this conversation is about: how to make public parks safer and more amenable to recreation. It’s not about one edge case. Anyway, you’re clearly fighting a battle in your own head about “sociopathic bikers” so I’m not going to engage.

Meanwhile: does anyone have any actual ideas about what’s going on at E Potomac Park? From the swimming pool fiasco to the crumbling sidewalks, it just seems like chaos.

Unless you can present another death from cars in the park that is also as you say “one edge case”. So either “one edge case” is important or not important?

Are you the one arguing that bikes are more deadly than cars because they are "pointy" and cars are "soft flat plastic"?

At 15 mph that is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
At 15 mph that is true.

For a given acceleration A,

for bicyclists: F(b) = 200 pounds x A

for cars: F(c) = 3,600 pounds x A

Please explain how F(b)>F(c). Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
At 15 mph that is true.

For a given acceleration A,

for bicyclists: F(b) = 200 pounds x A

for cars: F(c) = 3,600 pounds x A

Please explain how F(b)>F(c). Thanks.

That's easy! F(b) > F(c) is the bike is accelerating 40 miles per hour per second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course you don't want the rules to apply to you

By the way, a 15 mph bicycle with all it's pointy metal bits and directed energy is more dangerous than a 15 mph broad, blunt and plastic car.

Not according to the laws of physics (specifically F=ma), it's not.

+1. I can't believe someone thinking that "bluntness" means a car is less dangerous despite being like 20 times more massive.

You people are absolute sociopaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/dc-man-charged-in-bicycle-accident-that-killed-kiplinger-editor/2017/04/13/bd2f2e1e-1f91-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html

This is an argument for having separate bike infrastructure in the park. Right now pedestrians are forced onto the road with cars and bikes. And of course although bikes can cause harm, it’s many orders of magnitude less than cars.

As a side note, calling bike riders “absolute sociopaths” does not lend you much credibility. It makes you seem rather … fixated.

It’s the point that bikes when they do not obey traffics rules can and do routinely cause injury to people and also death. Obey the rules of the road and people don’t get killed. If you cannot and refuse to do so and willingly put others at risk, you are a sociopath.

ok. again pls show me the stats showing bicycles are so deadly to pedestrians?

What are you talking about stats? One death is too many. This is not some risk assessment. As I already said, the fact that you think it’s an acceptable risk to disobey traffic rules when there is risk of injury and death to others is sociopathic by definition.

I’m talking about stats because that’s what this conversation is about: how to make public parks safer and more amenable to recreation. It’s not about one edge case. Anyway, you’re clearly fighting a battle in your own head about “sociopathic bikers” so I’m not going to engage.

Meanwhile: does anyone have any actual ideas about what’s going on at E Potomac Park? From the swimming pool fiasco to the crumbling sidewalks, it just seems like chaos.

Unless you can present another death from cars in the park that is also as you say “one edge case”. So either “one edge case” is important or not important?

Are you the one arguing that bikes are more deadly than cars because they are "pointy" and cars are "soft flat plastic"?

At 15 mph that is true.

because the laws of physics disappear under 15mph. Hard to believe, but true!

[Anonymous]

Incidents where bicycles kill pedestrians are so very, very rare that it's probably impossible to find statistics.

However, one telling statistic is that only 17% of fatal bike injuries are single-bike accidents; whereas 55% of fatal car accidents are single-car accidents.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2017/07/study-dangerous-kind-crash-isnt-feared/
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/21/e1/e138

[Anonymous]

Facts are facts. There's been 1 pedestrian fatality from a bicycle at 15mph and 0 from cars at 15 mph in DC within the last five years.

Cars are not deadly at 15 mph. They are deadly at higher speeds, which is not at issue, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Incidents where bicycles kill pedestrians are so very, very rare that it's probably impossible to find statistics.

However, one telling statistic is that only 17% of fatal bike injuries are single-bike accidents; whereas 55% of fatal car accidents are single-car accidents.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2017/07/study-dangerous-kind-crash-isnt-feared/
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/21/e1/e138

Oh wait, here's some research:

"The rate of pedestrians injured in collisions with cyclists has decreased over time. This decline has occurred despite the increase in the number of cyclists in these states during this same time period. Two possible explanations for this decline are: (a) less exposure of children to cyclists, and (b) improvements in the cycling infrastructure."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437514000814

Whereas the rate of fatal car collisions killing pedestrians is growing.

https://aaafoundation.org/examining-the-increase-in-pedestrian-fatalities-in-the-united-states-2009-2018/#:~:text=Over%20the%20period%20from%202009,over%20the%20same%20time%20period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Facts are facts. There's been 1 pedestrian fatality from a bicycle at 15mph and 0 from cars at 15 mph in DC within the last five years.

Cars are not deadly at 15 mph. They are deadly at higher speeds, which is not at issue, though.

Great well, I'm glad you agree that speed bumps and traffic calming measures should be installed in E. Potomac Park to keep auto speeds under 15 MPH. BTW there is still a risk of death at 15 MPH in a car collision.
https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Facts are facts. There's been 1 pedestrian fatality from a bicycle at 15mph and 0 from cars at 15 mph in DC within the last five years.

Cars are not deadly at 15 mph. They are deadly at higher speeds, which is not at issue, though.

Where's the data for your assertion that nobody has been killed by a car traveling at 15 miles per hour? MPD doesn't collect that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Facts are facts. There's been 1 pedestrian fatality from a bicycle at 15mph and 0 from cars at 15 mph in DC within the last five years.

Cars are not deadly at 15 mph. They are deadly at higher speeds, which is not at issue, though.

I seriously doubt that you have the necessary data to support that assertion.

For example, how fast was the driver going who killed Zy'aire Joshua?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Facts are facts. There's been 1 pedestrian fatality from a bicycle at 15mph and 0 from cars at 15 mph in DC within the last five years.

Cars are not deadly at 15 mph. They are deadly at higher speeds, which is not at issue, though.

I seriously doubt that you have the necessary data to support that assertion.

For example, how fast was the driver going who killed Zy'aire Joshua?

And how fast was the truck going that killed the advocates in Hains Point, for that matter? Anyway I'm glad PP concedes we need speed bumps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Facts are facts. There's been 1 pedestrian fatality from a bicycle at 15mph and 0 from cars at 15 mph in DC within the last five years.

Cars are not deadly at 15 mph. They are deadly at higher speeds, which is not at issue, though.

Great well, I'm glad you agree that speed bumps and traffic calming measures should be installed in E. Potomac Park to keep auto speeds under 15 MPH. BTW there is still a risk of death at 15 MPH in a car collision.
https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/

Universal speed governors for cars at 15 mph - that would do the trick too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Incidents where bicycles kill pedestrians are so very, very rare that it's probably impossible to find statistics.

However, one telling statistic is that only 17% of fatal bike injuries are single-bike accidents; whereas 55% of fatal car accidents are single-car accidents.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2017/07/study-dangerous-kind-crash-isnt-feared/
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/21/e1/e138

It’s weird how you are so dismissive of the harm reckless bikers cause. Actually it isn’t. But it’s funny how you demand proof of other claims but are just willing to say whatever to diminish your behavior.
https://abc7ny.com/bike-lanes-safety-cyclists-bikers/5473859/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Incidents where bicycles kill pedestrians are so very, very rare that it's probably impossible to find statistics.

However, one telling statistic is that only 17% of fatal bike injuries are single-bike accidents; whereas 55% of fatal car accidents are single-car accidents.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2017/07/study-dangerous-kind-crash-isnt-feared/
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/21/e1/e138

It’s weird how you are so dismissive of the harm reckless bikers cause. Actually it isn’t. But it’s funny how you demand proof of other claims but are just willing to say whatever to diminish your behavior.
https://abc7ny.com/bike-lanes-safety-cyclists-bikers/5473859/

Your concern about reckless cyclists is disingenuous because reckless drivers kill and maim several orders of magnitude more frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Incidents where bicycles kill pedestrians are so very, very rare that it's probably impossible to find statistics.

However, one telling statistic is that only 17% of fatal bike injuries are single-bike accidents; whereas 55% of fatal car accidents are single-car accidents.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2017/07/study-dangerous-kind-crash-isnt-feared/
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/21/e1/e138

It’s weird how you are so dismissive of the harm reckless bikers cause. Actually it isn’t. But it’s funny how you demand proof of other claims but are just willing to say whatever to diminish your behavior.
https://abc7ny.com/bike-lanes-safety-cyclists-bikers/5473859/

In 2019, 121 pedestrians and 28 bicyclists were killed on the roads in NYC. 2 of the 121 pedestrians and 0 of the 28 bicyclists were killed by bicyclists. 119 of the 121 pedestrians and 28 of the 28 bicyclists were killed by drivers. It's weird that you're so dismissive of the harm reckless drivers cause.

https://abc7ny.com/traffic-fatalities-deaths-new-york-city/5802477/