Travel and social class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s the one European christmas market you all recommend?

Copenhagen is amazing! They have a beautiful Christmas market in Tivoli Gardens. I happened to be there for work a couple years ago and it was totally magical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid, I could tell a family was rich if they flew for all their vacations. Flying was so expensive back then, and kids didn’t fly that much. So if you met a 10 year old who had flown a lot, either his family was rich or his parents were divorced, or both.

That changed as I got older because flying got more affordable with budget airlines. I still think that a vacation where you have to fly us out of reach for a lot of families, especially if you have more than two kids. It’s still and indication of wealth or at least an indication that you are well paid enough to have a decent amount of disposable income.

And yes, where you travel is a class marker. I remember when I got to grad school and encountered truly wealthy people for the first time. I was confused about the selectivity of their vacations. To me, I wanted to go everywhere. Prague? Yes. Norfolk? Also yes? Skiing in Colorado? Yes. Jersey shore? Also yes.

But wealthy people don’t like to go places where they will interact with people outside their class. Which leads to weird things where going to the Eastern Shore is “better” than going to Hungary because Budapest isn’t “classy” enough to visit. Extremely weird priorities! But you do you— Budapest was awesome (and remarkably affordable).

I feel the same way. It seems to me that many "upper class" people I meet go to the same places every year. They "only" ski in Jackson Hole or Aspen. They've never been to a ton of other amazing ski resorts for something different. They own a beach house somewhere on the East Coast so they only go to their beach town but miss out on the many other great beach towns. They only go to a certain resort or island in the Caribbean when they want a winter weather escape, thus missing out on many other great island experiences. I find that a lot of these people have never been to Asia or anywhere in Central or South America. Like you said, they'd go to Saint-Tropez, Antibes, Positano etc. but never Budapest.

I like to go somewhere different each time. I like new experiences and adventures. I think it would be boring to go to the same 3-4 places every year. Does that make me middle class? lol

yes very

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid, I could tell a family was rich if they flew for all their vacations. Flying was so expensive back then, and kids didn’t fly that much. So if you met a 10 year old who had flown a lot, either his family was rich or his parents were divorced, or both.

That changed as I got older because flying got more affordable with budget airlines. I still think that a vacation where you have to fly us out of reach for a lot of families, especially if you have more than two kids. It’s still and indication of wealth or at least an indication that you are well paid enough to have a decent amount of disposable income.

And yes, where you travel is a class marker. I remember when I got to grad school and encountered truly wealthy people for the first time. I was confused about the selectivity of their vacations. To me, I wanted to go everywhere. Prague? Yes. Norfolk? Also yes? Skiing in Colorado? Yes. Jersey shore? Also yes.

But wealthy people don’t like to go places where they will interact with people outside their class. Which leads to weird things where going to the Eastern Shore is “better” than going to Hungary because Budapest isn’t “classy” enough to visit. Extremely weird priorities! But you do you— Budapest was awesome (and remarkably affordable).

I feel the same way. It seems to me that many "upper class" people I meet go to the same places every year. They "only" ski in Jackson Hole or Aspen. They've never been to a ton of other amazing ski resorts for something different. They own a beach house somewhere on the East Coast so they only go to their beach town but miss out on the many other great beach towns. They only go to a certain resort or island in the Caribbean when they want a winter weather escape, thus missing out on many other great island experiences. I find that a lot of these people have never been to Asia or anywhere in Central or South America. Like you said, they'd go to Saint-Tropez, Antibes, Positano etc. but never Budapest.

I like to go somewhere different each time. I like new experiences and adventures. I think it would be boring to go to the same 3-4 places every year. Does that make me middle class? lol

yes very

NP. It really doesn’t. Anyone who can afford to travel to a lot of different places isn’t middle class.

The reason some very wealthy people go to the same places is because that’s where their social circle is, or it’s because that’s where they own a 2nd or 3rd home. I went to a NE prep school and had friends whose families would spend time every year in Nantucket, the Hamptons, or Martha’s Vineyard. They enjoyed it there, but they continued to go there because other very wealthy families were there and they socialized with them. Same thing with Vail or Jackson Hole.

I will say that, after we all got back from winter break, you could tell who had money by where they went skiing. My family is rich, but not like those families. We would go to Stowe or Killington. The richer families went to Vail. Then the ridiculously rich families went to the Swiss Alps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid, I could tell a family was rich if they flew for all their vacations. Flying was so expensive back then, and kids didn’t fly that much. So if you met a 10 year old who had flown a lot, either his family was rich or his parents were divorced, or both.

That changed as I got older because flying got more affordable with budget airlines. I still think that a vacation where you have to fly us out of reach for a lot of families, especially if you have more than two kids. It’s still and indication of wealth or at least an indication that you are well paid enough to have a decent amount of disposable income.

And yes, where you travel is a class marker. I remember when I got to grad school and encountered truly wealthy people for the first time. I was confused about the selectivity of their vacations. To me, I wanted to go everywhere. Prague? Yes. Norfolk? Also yes? Skiing in Colorado? Yes. Jersey shore? Also yes.

But wealthy people don’t like to go places where they will interact with people outside their class. Which leads to weird things where going to the Eastern Shore is “better” than going to Hungary because Budapest isn’t “classy” enough to visit. Extremely weird priorities! But you do you— Budapest was awesome (and remarkably affordable).

I feel the same way. It seems to me that many "upper class" people I meet go to the same places every year. They "only" ski in Jackson Hole or Aspen. They've never been to a ton of other amazing ski resorts for something different. They own a beach house somewhere on the East Coast so they only go to their beach town but miss out on the many other great beach towns. They only go to a certain resort or island in the Caribbean when they want a winter weather escape, thus missing out on many other great island experiences. I find that a lot of these people have never been to Asia or anywhere in Central or South America. Like you said, they'd go to Saint-Tropez, Antibes, Positano etc. but never Budapest.

I like to go somewhere different each time. I like new experiences and adventures. I think it would be boring to go to the same 3-4 places every year. Does that make me middle class? lol

yes very

NP. It really doesn’t. Anyone who can afford to travel to a lot of different places isn’t middle class.

The reason some very wealthy people go to the same places is because that’s where their social circle is, or it’s because that’s where they own a 2nd or 3rd home. I went to a NE prep school and had friends whose families would spend time every year in Nantucket, the Hamptons, or Martha’s Vineyard. They enjoyed it there, but they continued to go there because other very wealthy families were there and they socialized with them. Same thing with Vail or Jackson Hole.

I will say that, after we all got back from winter break, you could tell who had money by where they went skiing. My family is rich, but not like those families. We would go to Stowe or Killington. The richer families went to Vail. Then the ridiculously rich families went to the Swiss Alps.

This is spot on. You vacation/summer/winter where your friends are/where your private clubs are/where it's easy to navigate etc. I find it appealing, to be honest - and we are not old $$ or extremely/uber/ridic wealthy at all (but we do have 3 homes, including 2 in locations where we belong to private clubs). That doesn't mean I won't go somewhere new every once in a blue moon, but no needs to see Budapest or fly somewhere else random.

[Anonymous]

My wealthy family loves to travel to new places and typically did at least one trip a year somewhere totally new. Including Budapest. I have always loved travel and much of the fun is in discovering new places. We also return to the places where we have homes because we obviously love the areas as we have homes there. We socialize a bit but not a ton, mostly use them as places to relax and get away from the social scene.

[Anonymous]

Ugh I can't imagine anything worse than having to socialize on my vacation. Not for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a kid, I could tell a family was rich if they flew for all their vacations. Flying was so expensive back then, and kids didn’t fly that much. So if you met a 10 year old who had flown a lot, either his family was rich or his parents were divorced, or both.

That changed as I got older because flying got more affordable with budget airlines. I still think that a vacation where you have to fly us out of reach for a lot of families, especially if you have more than two kids. It’s still and indication of wealth or at least an indication that you are well paid enough to have a decent amount of disposable income.

And yes, where you travel is a class marker. I remember when I got to grad school and encountered truly wealthy people for the first time. I was confused about the selectivity of their vacations. To me, I wanted to go everywhere. Prague? Yes. Norfolk? Also yes? Skiing in Colorado? Yes. Jersey shore? Also yes.

But wealthy people don’t like to go places where they will interact with people outside their class. Which leads to weird things where going to the Eastern Shore is “better” than going to Hungary because Budapest isn’t “classy” enough to visit. Extremely weird priorities! But you do you— Budapest was awesome (and remarkably affordable).

I feel the same way. It seems to me that many "upper class" people I meet go to the same places every year. They "only" ski in Jackson Hole or Aspen. They've never been to a ton of other amazing ski resorts for something different. They own a beach house somewhere on the East Coast so they only go to their beach town but miss out on the many other great beach towns. They only go to a certain resort or island in the Caribbean when they want a winter weather escape, thus missing out on many other great island experiences. I find that a lot of these people have never been to Asia or anywhere in Central or South America. Like you said, they'd go to Saint-Tropez, Antibes, Positano etc. but never Budapest.

I like to go somewhere different each time. I like new experiences and adventures. I think it would be boring to go to the same 3-4 places every year. Does that make me middle class? lol

yes very

NP. It really doesn’t. Anyone who can afford to travel to a lot of different places isn’t middle class.

The reason some very wealthy people go to the same places is because that’s where their social circle is, or it’s because that’s where they own a 2nd or 3rd home. I went to a NE prep school and had friends whose families would spend time every year in Nantucket, the Hamptons, or Martha’s Vineyard. They enjoyed it there, but they continued to go there because other very wealthy families were there and they socialized with them. Same thing with Vail or Jackson Hole.

I will say that, after we all got back from winter break, you could tell who had money by where they went skiing. My family is rich, but not like those families. We would go to Stowe or Killington. The richer families went to Vail. Then the ridiculously rich families went to the Swiss Alps.

This is spot on. You vacation/summer/winter where your friends are/where your private clubs are/where it's easy to navigate etc. I find it appealing, to be honest - and we are not old $$ or extremely/uber/ridic wealthy at all (but we do have 3 homes, including 2 in locations where we belong to private clubs). That doesn't mean I won't go somewhere new every once in a blue moon, but no needs to see Budapest or fly somewhere else random.

I get this. Its absolutely the opposite of me, but I respect it. Just because you are wealthy doesn't mean you actually love travel. Some do, certainly, but some just like to vacation. Vacation and travel are kind of different things. I absolutely love both but I get the itch more to travel and explore more than I do get the itch for R&R. Extremely wealthy people who fly private to the same island and ski mountain but don't really care if they go to anywhere but Paris or London every 5-10 years are wealthy versions of those who like their same AI in Cancun and cabin on the lake. That's not to knock any of it- its about how you want to spend the time you are actually away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the one European christmas market you all recommend?

Copenhagen is amazing! They have a beautiful Christmas market in Tivoli Gardens. I happened to be there for work a couple years ago and it was totally magical.

Thanks for the recommendation. Just watched a few youtube videos and it does look awesome.

[Anonymous]

chiming in here. My husband's family is like this - same annual trips (to their compounds) - Montana & Yellowstone Club in winter, Florida & Palm Beach in spring and Nantucket in summer for 2+ months.

Yes, they will occasionally go to Europe or Asia for a big annual trip - but that would be a 10-day to 2-week trip in summer usually - staying at all of the best hotels (example: France would be Paris at George V for a few days, down to Nice and pick up a Med yacht charter for a week and see lots of different towns). They've done a version of that trip in Greece and Italy as well. One August we did a large extended family safari with them as well, stopping in Dubai.

When they go on annual seasonal trips to their homes, they like a set schedule, as their homes are quite nice and pretty well-staffed, so things are just easy. Generally, their chef travels with them to each house, when they are in residence. Not my thing, but it's how they were raised. The one big difference - when you move to a 2nd or 3rd home, it isn't "vacation" per se, as much as moving where you are based....when you are insanely wealthy (like my husband's family) there isn't a lot of traditional "work" per se. Lots of lunches or dinners. Board calls etc. But no one is sitting hunched over a computer working on client materials.
Hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:chiming in here. My husband's family is like this - same annual trips (to their compounds) - Montana & Yellowstone Club in winter, Florida & Palm Beach in spring and Nantucket in summer for 2+ months.

Yes, they will occasionally go to Europe or Asia for a big annual trip - but that would be a 10-day to 2-week trip in summer usually - staying at all of the best hotels (example: France would be Paris at George V for a few days, down to Nice and pick up a Med yacht charter for a week and see lots of different towns). They've done a version of that trip in Greece and Italy as well. One August we did a large extended family safari with them as well, stopping in Dubai.

When they go on annual seasonal trips to their homes, they like a set schedule, as their homes are quite nice and pretty well-staffed, so things are just easy. Generally, their chef travels with them to each house, when they are in residence. Not my thing, but it's how they were raised. The one big difference - when you move to a 2nd or 3rd home, it isn't "vacation" per se, as much as moving where you are based....when you are insanely wealthy (like my husband's family) there isn't a lot of traditional "work" per se. Lots of lunches or dinners. Board calls etc. But no one is sitting hunched over a computer working on client materials.
Hope that helps.

Ok, this is fascinating.
what do they (did they) do? Assume inherited multi-generational wealth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Completely idiotic because it confuses money with social class and ignores multicultural and international people like me.

I return to the Alps regularly in summer because I'm French and like my mountains. I avoid the touristy parts because I don't like crowds when hiking.

Also - the part about Christmas markets makes me laugh. Most of the stuff is sadly cheap knock-offs; the few surviving local workshops who make everything by hand end up not being able to compete, and they're hard to identify in a market setting. It's best to visit them in their workshops. Christmas markets have been terrorist targets for quite a while in France and Germany. If you go, go for the ambience, sure. But if you've done one, you've done them all.

I had some rich European friends in college. They said they would come to nyc to shop during the holidays.

And Asians fly to nyc to shop all year round.

I have also read about these European Christmas markets and it is laughable. I wonder if it is the same poster.

I remember talking to a friend in college and she mentioned how much she loved her mother daughter bonding trips which was jetting off to London to see shows or Paris to shop. And that was when I realized she was in a totally different universe that I just didn’t understand. My mother daughter bonding involved soft serve ice cream at McDonald’s!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading an Emily Giffen novel and the narrator says she can tell someone’s social class by hearing where a person has traveled to or where they return year after year. I thought that was interesting. Do you agree?

Idk that I really agree because just having more money to spend doesn’t really change your class background (how you were raised, where you went to school, what you do for a living, etc.).

In part it's because of personality variation.

Liberals and the upper class tend to be "high-openness" personalities. Such personalities like learning for its own sake, like to embrace diversity and see unexpected things.

At least half of the working class (especially the white working class in America) tend to be lower openness personalities who like the expected and like to follow and not lead.

The former like to travel to cities or new countries. The latter like to go to theme parks and Disney. On average.

Gross. I am liberal and apparently "high-openness" and this is ugly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High class travel to me would be going places that are historical/educational and/or off the beaten path. Something like a safari in South Africa, going to Patagonia or Lapland.

Then there’s old money travel. That’s going to Mill Reef, Little Dix Bay or Lyford Cay in in Caribbean. Skiing is at Vail or Jackson Hole. For summers, it’s spending the month at your family’s house at some small New England enclave that most people have never heard of like Dark Harbor or Fenwick.

Any schmuck with money can go to St. Barts or Nantucket.

You have to own on Nantucket, and Sconset or beachfront Dionis at that, renters don’t qualify. Mill Reef requires membership too. Own in Jackson Hole. Friends in Argentina for hunting. There are safaris and then there are safaris and the real ones involve 3 or 4 generations of pictures on the wall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High class travel to me would be going places that are historical/educational and/or off the beaten path. Something like a safari in South Africa, going to Patagonia or Lapland.

Then there’s old money travel. That’s going to Mill Reef, Little Dix Bay or Lyford Cay in in Caribbean. Skiing is at Vail or Jackson Hole. For summers, it’s spending the month at your family’s house at some small New England enclave that most people have never heard of like Dark Harbor or Fenwick.

Any schmuck with money can go to St. Barts or Nantucket.

You have to own on Nantucket, and Sconset or beachfront Dionis at that, renters don’t qualify. Mill Reef requires membership too. Own in Jackson Hole. Friends in Argentina for hunting. There are safaris and then there are safaris and the real ones involve 3 or 4 generations of pictures on the wall.

+1 Nantucket is very old school. Same with Mill Reef and Lyford. Little Dix isn't that way. Neither is Vail or JH both of which have tons of hotels and can be pretty pedestrian.
And the safari point is huge. Very big difference. All the old wasp families I know do the multi-gen safaris which are crazy and insane (only their family at the entire reserve etc)

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Portugal or Disney yet.