Travel and social class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I traveled a lot in my 20s. I saved up $2-4000 each year when I was making 30k/year and went on some european vacation. I was pretty poor. Now that my family makes 350k/year, we only visit family in the car. It sucks.

I'm similar except I also travelled a lot in Asia and did the whole backpacking for 6 months thing. The upside is I don't feel like I'm missing out now that most of our vacations are visiting family. I'm glad I did so much travel when I was younger.

+1

Absolutely! I do not understand people that schlep their little kids to exotic places for bragging rights and photos - of a trip the kid will never remember.

I traveled a lot when I was younger before I had kids. We continue to travel a lot. I travel often because I love to travel. This is not for bragging rights. When the kids were younger, we mostly did kid friendly vacations with short flights or drives. Starting from when my youngest turned 5, we have been doing bigger international trips. I do enjoy taking photos in exotic places but it is for me. When I’m an old lady, I want to look at all my photos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Particularly in this day and age, it doesn’t mean much. You can charge vacations; a much better indicator of wealth is investments and real estate.

Class isn't about wealth; it's about consumption.

Class isn't about consumption. It's a combination of educational pedigree, cultural values, aesthetics, vocation, and money. For the upper middle classes and lower upper classes, uncontrolled consumption is crass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am old, and travelled a LOT more in the 90's than today - one thing I have noticed OP, is that everyone and their brother travels now - people act different now. People used to be MUCH more civilized on airplanes. Travel used to be a much more pleasant experience. I know I sound like your grandparent, but it is true.

So no, I am not impressed and I do not think you are a "higher social class" just because you travel. So many people have points, etc. - travel is basically a free for all now.

Completely agree and I’m only 41. People used to behave much better.

I’m 38 and remember dressing up to take flights, and smoking sections on planes.

The US banned smoking on planes in 1988. Did you travel a lot in other countries ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Couldn’t you tell someone’s social class just by where you met them, what they do, etc etc? I mean, to whom am I giving this test? And what would I do with the results?

Well in the book it’s a college student hearing that her new roommate grew up going to Christmas markets in Europe, skiing out west every spring break, and vacations on Sea Island every summer.

Tipped her off immediately to the roommate being from a high class family.

This could be rich person stuff - do they own the Sea Colony house? Do they fly first class to Europe and stay in the nicest hotels? Do they go to Aspen instead of slumming it at a less lux resort? - or it could be middle class if it is coach and rentals.

Skiing out west doesn’t have to be expensive. It really depends on where you go. And most middle class families can afford to rent a house for a beach vacation for a week or even two.

middle class families can't afford the time off for multiple long vacations a year.

2 is normal though or I should say, common.

I doubt people are going to a Christmas market every single year.

We did. Took our boys to Austria for them and skiing every year for 12 years. St Barth for spring break, maybe St Johm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am old, and travelled a LOT more in the 90's than today - one thing I have noticed OP, is that everyone and their brother travels now - people act different now. People used to be MUCH more civilized on airplanes. Travel used to be a much more pleasant experience. I know I sound like your grandparent, but it is true.

So no, I am not impressed and I do not think you are a "higher social class" just because you travel. So many people have points, etc. - travel is basically a free for all now.

Completely agree and I’m only 41. People used to behave much better.

I’m 38 and remember dressing up to take flights, and smoking sections on planes.

The US banned smoking on planes in 1988. Did you travel a lot in other countries ?

I remember smoking on planes. I was born in 1980. International flights had smoking sections into the mid 1990s. Definitely remember being in the last row of non-smoking with a cigar smoker right behind me! Plenty of people in the non smoking still smoked, taking a walk down the aisle to the smoking back. I also remember watching a young couple chain smoke. All seems very odd nowadays!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am old, and travelled a LOT more in the 90's than today - one thing I have noticed OP, is that everyone and their brother travels now - people act different now. People used to be MUCH more civilized on airplanes. Travel used to be a much more pleasant experience. I know I sound like your grandparent, but it is true.



So no, I am not impressed and I do not think you are a "higher social class" just because you travel. So many people have points, etc. - travel is basically a free for all now.

Completely agree and I’m only 41. People used to behave much better.

I’m 38 and remember dressing up to take flights, and smoking sections on planes.

The US banned smoking on planes in 1988. Did you travel a lot in other countries ?

I remember smoking on planes. I was born in 1980. International flights had smoking sections into the mid 1990s. Definitely remember being in the last row of non-smoking with a cigar smoker right behind me! Plenty of people in the non smoking still smoked, taking a walk down the aisle to the smoking back. I also remember watching a young couple chain smoke. All seems very odd nowadays!

I didn’t fly a ton when I was a kid, but do remember smokers on planes. It wasn’t gross then, because smoking was everywhere. I couldn’t imagine it now.

I remember flying in the 90s and even early 2000s on planes that had ashtrays, but no smoking. It was usually a sign of an older woman lane

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Particularly in this day and age, it doesn’t mean much. You can charge vacations; a much better indicator of wealth is investments and real estate.

Class isn't about wealth; it's about consumption.

Class isn't about consumption. It's a combination of educational pedigree, cultural values, aesthetics, vocation, and money. For the upper middle classes and lower upper classes, uncontrolled consumption is crass.

This. Essentially, act like you’ve been there before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you “summer” or “winter” in the same place every year, you are well-off. (Within the American context. I know it’s different for Europeans.)

I’m fairly well traveled but my vacation time and money is too precious to go back
to the same place again and again, I need to save it up to see more of the world — making me (upper) middle class.

Disagree. Someone who spends every summer on the Eastern Shore , for example, does not sound very worldly to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am old, and travelled a LOT more in the 90's than today - one thing I have noticed OP, is that everyone and their brother travels now - people act different now. People used to be MUCH more civilized on airplanes. Travel used to be a much more pleasant experience. I know I sound like your grandparent, but it is true.



So no, I am not impressed and I do not think you are a "higher social class" just because you travel. So many people have points, etc. - travel is basically a free for all now.

Completely agree and I’m only 41. People used to behave much better.

I’m 38 and remember dressing up to take flights, and smoking sections on planes.

The US banned smoking on planes in 1988. Did you travel a lot in other countries ?

I remember smoking on planes. I was born in 1980. International flights had smoking sections into the mid 1990s. Definitely remember being in the last row of non-smoking with a cigar smoker right behind me! Plenty of people in the non smoking still smoked, taking a walk down the aisle to the smoking back. I also remember watching a young couple chain smoke. All seems very odd nowadays!

I didn’t fly a ton when I was a kid, but do remember smokers on planes. It wasn’t gross then, because smoking was everywhere. I couldn’t imagine it now.

I remember flying in the 90s and even early 2000s on planes that had ashtrays, but no smoking. It was usually a sign of an older woman lane

As a child I loved playing with those flip top ashtrays. My parents told me not to but I ignored them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am old, and travelled a LOT more in the 90's than today - one thing I have noticed OP, is that everyone and their brother travels now - people act different now. People used to be MUCH more civilized on airplanes. Travel used to be a much more pleasant experience. I know I sound like your grandparent, but it is true.



So no, I am not impressed and I do not think you are a "higher social class" just because you travel. So many people have points, etc. - travel is basically a free for all now.

Completely agree and I’m only 41. People used to behave much better.

I’m 38 and remember dressing up to take flights, and smoking sections on planes.

The US banned smoking on planes in 1988. Did you travel a lot in other countries ?

I remember smoking on planes. I was born in 1980. International flights had smoking sections into the mid 1990s. Definitely remember being in the last row of non-smoking with a cigar smoker right behind me! Plenty of people in the non smoking still smoked, taking a walk down the aisle to the smoking back. I also remember watching a young couple chain smoke. All seems very odd nowadays!

I didn’t fly a ton when I was a kid, but do remember smokers on planes. It wasn’t gross then, because smoking was everywhere. I couldn’t imagine it now.

I remember flying in the 90s and even early 2000s on planes that had ashtrays, but no smoking. It was usually a sign of an older woman lane

Woman lane = plane???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Couldn’t you tell someone’s social class just by where you met them, what they do, etc etc? I mean, to whom am I giving this test? And what would I do with the results?

Well in the book it’s a college student hearing that her new roommate grew up going to Christmas markets in Europe, skiing out west every spring break, and vacations on Sea Island every summer.

Tipped her off immediately to the roommate being from a high class family.

This could be rich person stuff - do they own the Sea Colony house? Do they fly first class to Europe and stay in the nicest hotels? Do they go to Aspen instead of slumming it at a less lux resort? - or it could be middle class if it is coach and rentals.

Skiing out west doesn’t have to be expensive. It really depends on where you go. And most middle class families can afford to rent a house for a beach vacation for a week or even two.

As someone who grew up actual middle class—just lmao. No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Particularly in this day and age, it doesn’t mean much. You can charge vacations; a much better indicator of wealth is investments and real estate.

Class isn't about wealth; it's about consumption.

Class isn't about consumption. It's a combination of educational pedigree, cultural values, aesthetics, vocation, and money. For the upper middle classes and lower upper classes, uncontrolled consumption is crass.

This. Essentially, act like you’ve been there before.

I agree, class is based on many factors and while there may be some indicators based on traveling habits, it's not the ONLY indicator.

Ex: I was raised middle class in north Arlington by parents with master's degrees: 1 a public school teacher and the other a mid-level federal employee. We took some trips out west in the 90s, visited Canada (drove over the border) a couple of times and went to the UK/Ireland spring break one year to visit my older sis at college. We were solidly middle class in Arlington but compared to middle-class families in other areas in VA, I would consider us upper middle class. I'm now a professional with a master's working in a public school and my husband has a BS and works professionally. We prioritize travel and have found more affordable ways to do it on a shoestring budget, but we are not wealthy by any stretch and have had to make a lot of sacrifices to make it happen. I think when looking at class, you also have to examine privilege (which I have a lot of). It's very fascinating to me.

[Anonymous]

Going to a new place every year (or multiple new places) screams UMC, upwardly mobile, sorta striver-y to me. Truly middle class don't have the time or money to do that, but the true wealthy people I know don't seem to take to that style of travel at all. They seem to have their handful of places they like to go to over and over again. I.e., the typical rotation would be their beach house somewhere on the East Coast for summer, a skiing location out west or in Europe in the winter, somewhere in the Caribbean in winter/spring. Maaybe another somewhat obscure place in Europe that they really like, maybe a new destination every once in a great while, but mostly it's all about repetition. But I think PP nailed it when they said they won't go to places where thye have to interact extensively with people outside of their social class. Which is kind of funny because to me that's just like a gussied up version of the middle class family from the Midwest who spends a week within the walls of an all inclusive resort in Punta Cana (no judgment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going to a new place every year (or multiple new places) screams UMC, upwardly mobile, sorta striver-y to me. Truly middle class don't have the time or money to do that, but the true wealthy people I know don't seem to take to that style of travel at all. They seem to have their handful of places they like to go to over and over again. I.e., the typical rotation would be their beach house somewhere on the East Coast for summer, a skiing location out west or in Europe in the winter, somewhere in the Caribbean in winter/spring. Maaybe another somewhat obscure place in Europe that they really like, maybe a new destination every once in a great while, but mostly it's all about repetition. But I think PP nailed it when they said they won't go to places where thye have to interact extensively with people outside of their social class. Which is kind of funny because to me that's just like a gussied up version of the middle class family from the Midwest who spends a week within the walls of an all inclusive resort in Punta Cana (no judgment).

I would say that's more of an indication of "old money". Money doesn't equal class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to a new place every year (or multiple new places) screams UMC, upwardly mobile, sorta striver-y to me. Truly middle class don't have the time or money to do that, but the true wealthy people I know don't seem to take to that style of travel at all. They seem to have their handful of places they like to go to over and over again. I.e., the typical rotation would be their beach house somewhere on the East Coast for summer, a skiing location out west or in Europe in the winter, somewhere in the Caribbean in winter/spring. Maaybe another somewhat obscure place in Europe that they really like, maybe a new destination every once in a great while, but mostly it's all about repetition. But I think PP nailed it when they said they won't go to places where thye have to interact extensively with people outside of their social class. Which is kind of funny because to me that's just like a gussied up version of the middle class family from the Midwest who spends a week within the walls of an all inclusive resort in Punta Cana (no judgment).

I would say that's more of an indication of "old money". Money doesn't equal class.

This. What PP describes is the old money CC set. Not the Paris Hilton/Kim Kardashian types.