Smart Restart APS- ventilation studies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

Our school has a pretty bad mold problem and many students/teachers have allergies and asthma. Yeah, I'd say breathing is a pretty important part of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

Our school has a pretty bad mold problem and many students/teachers have allergies and asthma. Yeah, I'd say breathing is a pretty important part of education.

People are rightfully concerned about indoor maskless dining and ventilation. You won’t enjoy hybrid much if your kid ends up constantly quarantined due to virus cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

I posted previously and said CDC guidance on schools and ventilation should be followed, not APS’ feelings on the matter. APS has surely done a lot of things wrong since March 13th of last year, beginning with zero new content for the remainder of the school year and ending, well, I’ll let you know. But it’s not like the kindergarten teachers are performing the air flow analysis for APS. They have facilities people and per Bellavia’s AEM post, they hired a consultant to assist them with the analysis of current state ventilation and measure to be taken to improve the current state.
I’m not saying SMART restart doesn’t have some valid “would love to haves” on their list. I think a robust testing protocol would be awesome. However, on ventilation, I remain unconvinced that the ventilation demands, as advanced by a graphic designer, are wholly necessary to get back in the classroom where kids will be likely double masked all day.

Where is it that she or Smart restart was saying it had to be done BEFORE schools could reopen? Obviously some of these schools have significant HVAC problems which are going to take time and money to fix. (And, btw, the graphic designer is also a former journalist who covered emergency preparedness and natural disasters and some scientific matters. She has never held herself out as an expert, but seems to be trying to cast light on a dearth of information provided by APS. By contrast, look at what Montgomery County has put out about air in its classrooms. Why can't APS do the same? https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/facilities/default.aspx?id=674571&fbclid=IwAR0q2RvhuX8cbrVqzTZni0boQIt84RX8FkLzZWyyEwzjIps5dR2IAT_Rxik)

Smart restart definitely lists their demands as prerequisites to any in person learning. That is why it gets so much pushback. They go so far beyond scientific guidance and are fear mongering. If they weren’t actively trying to stop kids who desperately need it from getting an in person education I doubt anyone would care to oppose them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

Careful now, you're about to bring reason into this conversation. But I couldn't agree more.

Another vote for this, except that I think the Restart group has gotten a bad rap for wanting to stay closed or that everything has to be perfect. I've heard some of them say they are just trying to keep pushing these issues with APS to get it as safe as possible when APS decides to reopen schools. From those conversations, they know that everything can't be done before RTS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

I posted previously and said CDC guidance on schools and ventilation should be followed, not APS’ feelings on the matter. APS has surely done a lot of things wrong since March 13th of last year, beginning with zero new content for the remainder of the school year and ending, well, I’ll let you know. But it’s not like the kindergarten teachers are performing the air flow analysis for APS. They have facilities people and per Bellavia’s AEM post, they hired a consultant to assist them with the analysis of current state ventilation and measure to be taken to improve the current state.
I’m not saying SMART restart doesn’t have some valid “would love to haves” on their list. I think a robust testing protocol would be awesome. However, on ventilation, I remain unconvinced that the ventilation demands, as advanced by a graphic designer, are wholly necessary to get back in the classroom where kids will be likely double masked all day.

Where is it that she or Smart restart was saying it had to be done BEFORE schools could reopen? Obviously some of these schools have significant HVAC problems which are going to take time and money to fix. (And, btw, the graphic designer is also a former journalist who covered emergency preparedness and natural disasters and some scientific matters. She has never held herself out as an expert, but seems to be trying to cast light on a dearth of information provided by APS. By contrast, look at what Montgomery County has put out about air in its classrooms. Why can't APS do the same? https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/facilities/default.aspx?id=674571&fbclid=IwAR0q2RvhuX8cbrVqzTZni0boQIt84RX8FkLzZWyyEwzjIps5dR2IAT_Rxik)

Smart restart definitely lists their demands as prerequisites to any in person learning. That is why it gets so much pushback. They go so far beyond scientific guidance and are fear mongering. If they weren’t actively trying to stop kids who desperately need it from getting an in person education I doubt anyone would care to oppose them.

They definitely do? Ok, where? I have had conversations with members from that group and they have stated outright to me that they are not prerequisites. Some are even sending their kids back in a few weeks in hybrid. If we want to talk ultimatums, it seems APE has the corner on that because according to their signs they want to open NOW!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

I posted previously and said CDC guidance on schools and ventilation should be followed, not APS’ feelings on the matter. APS has surely done a lot of things wrong since March 13th of last year, beginning with zero new content for the remainder of the school year and ending, well, I’ll let you know. But it’s not like the kindergarten teachers are performing the air flow analysis for APS. They have facilities people and per Bellavia’s AEM post, they hired a consultant to assist them with the analysis of current state ventilation and measure to be taken to improve the current state.
I’m not saying SMART restart doesn’t have some valid “would love to haves” on their list. I think a robust testing protocol would be awesome. However, on ventilation, I remain unconvinced that the ventilation demands, as advanced by a graphic designer, are wholly necessary to get back in the classroom where kids will be likely double masked all day.

Very well said. Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS needed a push from both APE and Smart Restart.

APS would never reopen if they kept relying on how teachers "feel" about safety rather than actual data. The pressure from APE gave APS a necessary kick in the butt.

APS also had vastly underprepared for how they were going to keep kids safe. APS's temperature scans and hand washing are fine, but only help at the margins. Better ventilation and outdoor lunch materially reduce risk. Smart Restart is only off the deep end in that they think that perfect ventilation is necessary for reopening (and that they are off-puttingly zealous in how they present themselves). I appreciate that we'll now have good air filters in the classroom for reopening and I support the notion that we should keep working to improve ventilation for a full reopening in the fall.

I also strongly disagree with people on this thread that APS is now suddenly an expert in pandemic safety mitigation. APS is run by educators, not scientists. The CDC and other government guidelines were basically useless for most of the pandemic. There is also a significant proportion of APS administration who don't believe that kids catch and transmit Covid, and another portion who are more focused on social issues than getting kids an education. APS needed all of the help they could get, and probably more.

I posted previously and said CDC guidance on schools and ventilation should be followed, not APS’ feelings on the matter. APS has surely done a lot of things wrong since March 13th of last year, beginning with zero new content for the remainder of the school year and ending, well, I’ll let you know. But it’s not like the kindergarten teachers are performing the air flow analysis for APS. They have facilities people and per Bellavia’s AEM post, they hired a consultant to assist them with the analysis of current state ventilation and measure to be taken to improve the current state.
I’m not saying SMART restart doesn’t have some valid “would love to haves” on their list. I think a robust testing protocol would be awesome. However, on ventilation, I remain unconvinced that the ventilation demands, as advanced by a graphic designer, are wholly necessary to get back in the classroom where kids will be likely double masked all day.

Where is it that she or Smart restart was saying it had to be done BEFORE schools could reopen? Obviously some of these schools have significant HVAC problems which are going to take time and money to fix. (And, btw, the graphic designer is also a former journalist who covered emergency preparedness and natural disasters and some scientific matters. She has never held herself out as an expert, but seems to be trying to cast light on a dearth of information provided by APS. By contrast, look at what Montgomery County has put out about air in its classrooms. Why can't APS do the same? https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/facilities/default.aspx?id=674571&fbclid=IwAR0q2RvhuX8cbrVqzTZni0boQIt84RX8FkLzZWyyEwzjIps5dR2IAT_Rxik)

Smart restart definitely lists their demands as prerequisites to any in person learning. That is why it gets so much pushback. They go so far beyond scientific guidance and are fear mongering. If they weren’t actively trying to stop kids who desperately need it from getting an in person education I doubt anyone would care to oppose them.

They definitely do? Ok, where? I have had conversations with members from that group and they have stated outright to me that they are not prerequisites. Some are even sending their kids back in a few weeks in hybrid. If we want to talk ultimatums, it seems APE has the corner on that because according to their signs they want to open NOW!

It’s a demand but I don’t see the ultimatum.....?

[Anonymous]

The smart restart group concerns me because it looks like many of its members overlap with the OneAPS group from September. You know, the ones who said it was better to be virtual in September and then go back gradually in the fall. And of course we never went back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I don't care. The ventilation is fine as is. It really, truly is just fine. I am so sick of hearing about air filters. For some it's like the biggest factor in their child's school, forget all that academics and junk!

Our school has a pretty bad mold problem and many students/teachers have allergies and asthma. Yeah, I'd say breathing is a pretty important part of education.

Which school?

[Anonymous]

If you don’t believe the report, then FOIA it yourself and see how much WORK went into getting the data. The same people who question the report have wanted kids back in unsafe buildings. How about supporting efforts to make schools safe for all students.

[Anonymous]

At this point all I want to know is their plan for the fall. I wouldn’t send any adolescent into that mess without a vaccine and without vaccinated adults at home. My 14 year old is just a mini adult, biologically, but I’m not letting him come and infect all of us. in December with their first version of the plan, it was clear it was an s-show, because in secondary schools they didn’t even try to prevent large numbers of kids from intermingling, and then what was going to save them was having them all march in lockstep one way down the hall, and all this exposure for two days a week.

So, what are they going to do in the fall? At least by then the adults will definitely be immunized and hopefully they will have approved something for kids 12 and up. Secondary schools should not be allowed to be breeding grounds for nastier variants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t get to publish “your improved data” and then refuse to share it for replication or examination.

This is insane that people are listening to her.

Having lots of numbers and visuals doesn’t make you right.

I agree 100%. I didn’t really have an opinion on it until I saw she refused to share her backup and calculations because she didn’t want people to poke holes in her argument. I cannot take her seriously after that. That’s not how any numbers based evaluation works.

That thread is a big yikes.

Serious smackdown from Frank Bellavia.

Now I need to go find this.

LOL. He *received* a smackdown.

No, he didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t believe the report, then FOIA it yourself and see how much WORK went into getting the data. The same people who question the report have wanted kids back in unsafe buildings. How about supporting efforts to make schools safe for all students.

What she is doing is not necessarily helping to make schools safer if her analysis is wrong. It was pointed out in a couple of places where her analysis errs well on the high side of what APS still needs to do to reopen safely. If the answer on a particular metric is that we need to be at a 5 to reopen safely, how does it help anyone for Smart Restart to say we need to reach an 8 (or that we're currently only at a 3 when in fact we're actually already at 5)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point all I want to know is their plan for the fall. I wouldn’t send any adolescent into that mess without a vaccine and without vaccinated adults at home. My 14 year old is just a mini adult, biologically, but I’m not letting him come and infect all of us. in December with their first version of the plan, it was clear it was an s-show, because in secondary schools they didn’t even try to prevent large numbers of kids from intermingling, and then what was going to save them was having them all march in lockstep one way down the hall, and all this exposure for two days a week.

So, what are they going to do in the fall? At least by then the adults will definitely be immunized and hopefully they will have approved something for kids 12 and up. Secondary schools should not be allowed to be breeding grounds for nastier variants.

So nice to see another rational adult in Arlington. Can’t for the life of me understand why they have better cohosting and safety practices in elementary than middle and high. They just shrug at the idea that middle and high schoolers can get and transmit like adults. They literally plan to gather them all together for lunch and at the beginning of the school day. No one is doing that with elementary. The secondary team in Central Admin is out to lunch (hopefully in groups less and 100 ha!) when it comes to student safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t believe the report, then FOIA it yourself and see how much WORK went into getting the data. The same people who question the report have wanted kids back in unsafe buildings. How about supporting efforts to make schools safe for all students.

How much effort went into getting the data means absolutely nothing for the accuracy of their work with the data once they got it.