Carson?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They’ve been doing 5th grade promotion ceremonies for families in the auditorium of QOHS for a few years.

That's not unusual--many ESs have their promotion ceremonies at nearby high schools, regardless of whether they are overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They’ve been doing 5th grade promotion ceremonies for families in the auditorium of QOHS for a few years.

That's not unusual--many ESs have their promotion ceremonies at nearby high schools, regardless of whether they are overcrowded.

That is correct. My daughter's 5th-grade promotion from Beverly Farms (not over crowded) was at Churchill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can avoid it, try and get out of Rachel Carson. It's not Mormons or FARMS as the previous posters have said (which quite frankly seems ridiculous). Diversity in an elementary school is a good thing.

The issue is the administration is terrible. Turned over about 4 years ago, and the new principal is really disliked by the parents and many of the teachers. She doesn't seem like a bad person, just way in over her head and extremely under qualified. The rumor was that nobody else wanted the job given the size of the school and how tough many of the parents are, but obviously just a rumor - so who knows.

Think I'm crazy? Just look at how the school rankings have changed since she took over...we have all dealt with the overcrowding (and it's EXTREMELY overcrowded) because the school was so great. Not anymore.

It used to be one of the best, if not the best elem school in MCPS. But it's really gone downhill and shows no signs of improving. It's a hot topic across the Kentlands and Lakelands, but I just don't see it changing. All that said, there are some amazing teachers there who are trying their best.

We’re a Lakelands family and have had to make the tough decision to send our kid to private ES. The old RCES principal was apparently well-loved, but people do not like the new one. Add that on top of everything else and we have to just opt out.

I find this hilarious since parents *hated* the previous principal. He didn't cave to every parent demand and knew how to handle the Karens in there day after day. If I heard someone taking about how they disliked him I would always say "you'll be sorry when he's gone" because he ran a very tight ship and held every teacher accountable, cut bad teachers out of the mix immediately, pushed trouble maker kids out and kept eyes on what was going on during every school event etc. Now that he's gone... Welp, here we are.

I didn’t realize parents hated him. I had a lot of respect for him. Under his tenure, RCES was a Blue Ribbon school less than a decade ago. He ran things the way he felt would work best and gave other people less input. It seemed to me that the new principal seemed to have more of a “Go ahead any make some suggestions, let’s shake things up and see what works” kind of approach, and some things didn’t work.

RCES is definitely overcrowded, but the class sizes aren’t any bigger than they are at other schools.

How crowded is RCES? And what is the average class size? Like 25 kids/1 teacher for k?

Yes, classes tend to be 24-26 students. The overcrowding doesn’t really affect classroom teaching, it affects core facilities. One grade is housed in portable classrooms, but they’re large and have heat and air conditioning and a covered walkway that connects them with the building. They just don’t have restrooms or classroom sinks. The all purpose room can only fit one grade at a time, so there are 6 different lunch periods, which means that one unlucky grade has to eat “lunch” at 10:30. A whole grade goes out to recess at the same time, so you’ll have 2-3 recess aides supervising 150 or more kids. Sometimes two classes have PE at the same time and must share the gym. Upper grades don’t have a set library time; the kids are given opportunities to visit the library, a few at a time, during reading. Anything that involves the entire school either has to split up by grade level (K-2 do it at this time, while 3-5 do it at this other time) or there’s totally inadequate parking around the school for parents. They used to invite 5th graders’ parent to the ceremonies on the last day of school, but now the students and staff fill the combined all purpose room and gymnasium space, so they can’t include parents.

How can that large of a student body NOT effect classroom learning? When you have that many students the teaching is helpful to the majority of the population, but any child who isn't keeping up with (or is ahead) of the pack is left to their own devices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How crowded is RCES? And what is the average class size? Like 25 kids/1 teacher for k?

According to the latest CIP, RCES is 103 students overcapacity. By my count, there are 12 other ESs more overcapacity than that.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP22_AppendixE.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kids will be fine at Rachel Carson or Dufief. They can get a good education at either school. Right now Rachel Carson is large and Dufief is small. The plan was to rezone 300 RCES students to Dufief. I’m not sure how that will play out post pandemic. Enrollment at RCES has been trending downward the last few years. I don’t know how many students might have left for private schools that are open for in-person. Figuring out who would get rezoned will be very tricky politically. I think it’s entirely possible it won’t end up happening any time soon.

+1
My kid attended RCES and then we had to move to Fairfax County for a few years. Now we are back and I'm happy about it. Its a good school, but so is Dufief. Obviously, there is animosity between the Kentlands/Lakelands residents with students that attend RCES and those that live outside those areas. Those outside these neighborhoods tend to think of the Kentlands/Lakelands residents as being elitist and looking down at non-residents and Kentlands/Lakelands residents want the school to be a walkable neighborhood school. There are other issues along this line that have been ongoing for years. As for the Mormon comment, I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How crowded is RCES? And what is the average class size? Like 25 kids/1 teacher for k?

According to the latest CIP, RCES is 103 students overcapacity. By my count, there are 12 other ESs more overcapacity than that.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP22_AppendixE.pdf

Oh wow — enrollment really went down. Even just a couple of years ago, it had 1,000 kids, making it 300 kids overcapacity. Now it looks like it’s more like 180 overcapacity: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02159.pdf

I wonder if more families are going private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They’ve been doing 5th grade promotion ceremonies for families in the auditorium of QOHS for a few years.

That's not unusual--many ESs have their promotion ceremonies at nearby high schools, regardless of whether they are overcrowded.

That is correct. My daughter's 5th-grade promotion from Beverly Farms (not over crowded) was at Churchill.

I didn’t post that because I thought it was unusual; I posted it because the previous comment mentioned 5th grade parents not being able to attend end of year ceremonies, so I didn’t want the OP to think that 5th graders aren’t recognized in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it or is it not a good school?

Some people seem to imply it would be better without kids being bused in from half way across the county.

It would have higher test scores if not for FARMS kids from (checks notes) 3.5 miles away.its still a nice school.
For the record, Captain Equity Crusader, the kids are not bussed to Rachel Carson because 'they're almost zoned there and will go to QO anyway'
They're bussed there from a leftover idea that integrating students with bussing will lead to a better academic outcome for them. Test scores show thats just not true. Those kids do poorly because they come from families that don't value education. The money spent on bussing and boundary studies would be better spent on programs educating the parents on why academics matter. And then training them how to do stuff like go to the library and read to their children. But that might hurt someone's feelings and then Captain Equity Crusader wouldn't know what to get his panties in a bunch about.

And to clear it up, if anything brings the school down, its the mean girls not the non local farms kids. But I am explaining what the OP would see if they look at the metrics for the school.

wow training parents on how to reach their children gosh what an incredible novel idea why are you wasting your time talking about it on anonymous internet forum you have to go implement this program right away because you could single-handedly save every child who's struggling in school! So simple!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1
My kid attended RCES and then we had to move to Fairfax County for a few years. Now we are back and I'm happy about it. Its a good school, but so is Dufief. Obviously, there is animosity between the Kentlands/Lakelands residents with students that attend RCES and those that live outside those areas. Those outside these neighborhoods tend to think of the Kentlands/Lakelands residents as being elitist and looking down at non-residents and Kentlands/Lakelands residents want the school to be a walkable neighborhood school. There are other issues along this line that have been ongoing for years. As for the Mormon comment, I don't get it.

So, the presence of kids from the Governor Square Apartments somehow makes it impossible for kids from Kentlands to walk to school?

Or did you mean to say, "Residents who don't live in Kentlands/Lakelands correctly believe that Kentlands/Lakelands residents don't want them there."?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How crowded is RCES? And what is the average class size? Like 25 kids/1 teacher for k?

According to the latest CIP, RCES is 103 students overcapacity. By my count, there are 12 other ESs more overcapacity than that.

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP22_AppendixE.pdf

Oh wow — enrollment really went down. Even just a couple of years ago, it had 1,000 kids, making it 300 kids overcapacity. Now it looks like it’s more like 180 overcapacity: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02159.pdf

I wonder if more families are going private.

Yes, a TON of kids have gone private over the last couple of years. All tied to dissatisfaction with the school and administration. Current principal is a disaster. A PP talked about parents not liking the old principal but the that was few and far between, most liked him. Almost universal dislike of the new one. It's a shame, used to be a model school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can avoid it, try and get out of Rachel Carson. It's not Mormons or FARMS as the previous posters have said (which quite frankly seems ridiculous). Diversity in an elementary school is a good thing.

The issue is the administration is terrible. Turned over about 4 years ago, and the new principal is really disliked by the parents and many of the teachers. She doesn't seem like a bad person, just way in over her head and extremely under qualified. The rumor was that nobody else wanted the job given the size of the school and how tough many of the parents are, but obviously just a rumor - so who knows.

Think I'm crazy? Just look at how the school rankings have changed since she took over...we have all dealt with the overcrowding (and it's EXTREMELY overcrowded) because the school was so great. Not anymore.

It used to be one of the best, if not the best elem school in MCPS. But it's really gone downhill and shows no signs of improving. It's a hot topic across the Kentlands and Lakelands, but I just don't see it changing. All that said, there are some amazing teachers there who are trying their best.

We’re a Lakelands family and have had to make the tough decision to send our kid to private ES. The old RCES principal was apparently well-loved, but people do not like the new one. Add that on top of everything else and we have to just opt out.

I find this hilarious since parents *hated* the previous principal. He didn't cave to every parent demand and knew how to handle the Karens in there day after day. If I heard someone taking about how they disliked him I would always say "you'll be sorry when he's gone" because he ran a very tight ship and held every teacher accountable, cut bad teachers out of the mix immediately, pushed trouble maker kids out and kept eyes on what was going on during every school event etc. Now that he's gone... Welp, here we are.

I didn’t realize parents hated him. I had a lot of respect for him. Under his tenure, RCES was a Blue Ribbon school less than a decade ago. He ran things the way he felt would work best and gave other people less input. It seemed to me that the new principal seemed to have more of a “Go ahead any make some suggestions, let’s shake things up and see what works” kind of approach, and some things didn’t work.

RCES is definitely overcrowded, but the class sizes aren’t any bigger than they are at other schools.

How crowded is RCES? And what is the average class size? Like 25 kids/1 teacher for k?

Yes, classes tend to be 24-26 students. The overcrowding doesn’t really affect classroom teaching, it affects core facilities. One grade is housed in portable classrooms, but they’re large and have heat and air conditioning and a covered walkway that connects them with the building. They just don’t have restrooms or classroom sinks. The all purpose room can only fit one grade at a time, so there are 6 different lunch periods, which means that one unlucky grade has to eat “lunch” at 10:30. A whole grade goes out to recess at the same time, so you’ll have 2-3 recess aides supervising 150 or more kids. Sometimes two classes have PE at the same time and must share the gym. Upper grades don’t have a set library time; the kids are given opportunities to visit the library, a few at a time, during reading. Anything that involves the entire school either has to split up by grade level (K-2 do it at this time, while 3-5 do it at this other time) or there’s totally inadequate parking around the school for parents. They used to invite 5th graders’ parent to the ceremonies on the last day of school, but now the students and staff fill the combined all purpose room and gymnasium space, so they can’t include parents.

How can that large of a student body NOT effect classroom learning? When you have that many students the teaching is helpful to the majority of the population, but any child who isn't keeping up with (or is ahead) of the pack is left to their own devices.

Because RCES teachers don’t have more students than teachers at other MCPS elementary schools (except Focus or Title I schools). They teach approximately 25 students, sometimes more and sometimes fewer. Small group instruction takes place in reading and math in every class. Just like at other schools, the students in the lower grades are regrouped according to their reading level for reading instruction. To match up students of similar reading ability, some students may leave their home room and join a different teacher for reading. At RCES, there have been between 4-7 teachers per grade, depending on enrollment. That makes it easy to offer instruction at a wide range of skill levels.

RCES has a great PTA, numerous parent volunteers, and some wonderful teachers. I was really impressed with one of the counselors, as well. I brought an educational advocate to the meeting where the RCES staff was working with the Lakelands Park Middle School counselor to write my child’s 504 for 6th grade. After the meeting, the advocate, who has attended many of these meetings, commented that the RCES staff clearly really cared about my child and had been providing supports that they weren’t even required to provide (no services, just classroom accommodations and the occasional lunch one-on-one with the counselor). There’s a reason why people didn’t leave in droves for private school back when enrollment topped 1,000 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1
My kid attended RCES and then we had to move to Fairfax County for a few years. Now we are back and I'm happy about it. Its a good school, but so is Dufief. Obviously, there is animosity between the Kentlands/Lakelands residents with students that attend RCES and those that live outside those areas. Those outside these neighborhoods tend to think of the Kentlands/Lakelands residents as being elitist and looking down at non-residents and Kentlands/Lakelands residents want the school to be a walkable neighborhood school. There are other issues along this line that have been ongoing for years. As for the Mormon comment, I don't get it.

So, the presence of kids from the Governor Square Apartments somehow makes it impossible for kids from Kentlands to walk to school?

Or did you mean to say, "Residents who don't live in Kentlands/Lakelands correctly believe that Kentlands/Lakelands residents don't want them there."?

I’m a different poster, but I think this poster was probably referring to the fact that Kentlands and Lakelands parents would like to keep their communities zoned for the same elementary school rather than split between RCES and Dufief. If some RCES students get rezoned to Dufief, they want it to be students from other neighborhoods. However, the easiest way to siphon off 300 RCES students would have been to rezone a chunk of Lakelands, which is why parents historically accepted the overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They’ve been doing 5th grade promotion ceremonies for families in the auditorium of QOHS for a few years.

That's not unusual--many ESs have their promotion ceremonies at nearby high schools, regardless of whether they are overcrowded.

That is correct. My daughter's 5th-grade promotion from Beverly Farms (not over crowded) was at Churchill.

I didn’t post that because I thought it was unusual; I posted it because the previous comment mentioned 5th grade parents not being able to attend end of year ceremonies, so I didn’t want the OP to think that 5th graders aren’t recognized in any way.

Sorry about that, PP. Thanks for the clarification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can avoid it, try and get out of Rachel Carson. It's not Mormons or FARMS as the previous posters have said (which quite frankly seems ridiculous). Diversity in an elementary school is a good thing.

The issue is the administration is terrible. Turned over about 4 years ago, and the new principal is really disliked by the parents and many of the teachers. She doesn't seem like a bad person, just way in over her head and extremely under qualified. The rumor was that nobody else wanted the job given the size of the school and how tough many of the parents are, but obviously just a rumor - so who knows.

Think I'm crazy? Just look at how the school rankings have changed since she took over...we have all dealt with the overcrowding (and it's EXTREMELY overcrowded) because the school was so great. Not anymore.

It used to be one of the best, if not the best elem school in MCPS. But it's really gone downhill and shows no signs of improving. It's a hot topic across the Kentlands and Lakelands, but I just don't see it changing. All that said, there are some amazing teachers there who are trying their best.

We’re a Lakelands family and have had to make the tough decision to send our kid to private ES. The old RCES principal was apparently well-loved, but people do not like the new one. Add that on top of everything else and we have to just opt out.

I find this hilarious since parents *hated* the previous principal. He didn't cave to every parent demand and knew how to handle the Karens in there day after day. If I heard someone taking about how they disliked him I would always say "you'll be sorry when he's gone" because he ran a very tight ship and held every teacher accountable, cut bad teachers out of the mix immediately, pushed trouble maker kids out and kept eyes on what was going on during every school event etc. Now that he's gone... Welp, here we are.

I didn’t realize parents hated him. I had a lot of respect for him. Under his tenure, RCES was a Blue Ribbon school less than a decade ago. He ran things the way he felt would work best and gave other people less input. It seemed to me that the new principal seemed to have more of a “Go ahead any make some suggestions, let’s shake things up and see what works” kind of approach, and some things didn’t work.

RCES is definitely overcrowded, but the class sizes aren’t any bigger than they are at other schools.

How crowded is RCES? And what is the average class size? Like 25 kids/1 teacher for k?

Yes, classes tend to be 24-26 students. The overcrowding doesn’t really affect classroom teaching, it affects core facilities. One grade is housed in portable classrooms, but they’re large and have heat and air conditioning and a covered walkway that connects them with the building. They just don’t have restrooms or classroom sinks. The all purpose room can only fit one grade at a time, so there are 6 different lunch periods, which means that one unlucky grade has to eat “lunch” at 10:30. A whole grade goes out to recess at the same time, so you’ll have 2-3 recess aides supervising 150 or more kids. Sometimes two classes have PE at the same time and must share the gym. Upper grades don’t have a set library time; the kids are given opportunities to visit the library, a few at a time, during reading. Anything that involves the entire school either has to split up by grade level (K-2 do it at this time, while 3-5 do it at this other time) or there’s totally inadequate parking around the school for parents. They used to invite 5th graders’ parent to the ceremonies on the last day of school, but now the students and staff fill the combined all purpose room and gymnasium space, so they can’t include parents.

How can that large of a student body NOT effect classroom learning? When you have that many students the teaching is helpful to the majority of the population, but any child who isn't keeping up with (or is ahead) of the pack is left to their own devices.

Because RCES teachers don’t have more students than teachers at other MCPS elementary schools (except Focus or Title I schools). They teach approximately 25 students, sometimes more and sometimes fewer. Small group instruction takes place in reading and math in every class. Just like at other schools, the students in the lower grades are regrouped according to their reading level for reading instruction. To match up students of similar reading ability, some students may leave their home room and join a different teacher for reading. At RCES, there have been between 4-7 teachers per grade, depending on enrollment. That makes it easy to offer instruction at a wide range of skill levels.

RCES has a great PTA, numerous parent volunteers, and some wonderful teachers. I was really impressed with one of the counselors, as well. I brought an educational advocate to the meeting where the RCES staff was working with the Lakelands Park Middle School counselor to write my child’s 504 for 6th grade. After the meeting, the advocate, who has attended many of these meetings, commented that the RCES staff clearly really cared about my child and had been providing supports that they weren’t even required to provide (no services, just classroom accommodations and the occasional lunch one-on-one with the counselor). There’s a reason why people didn’t leave in droves for private school back when enrollment topped 1,000 students.

Then explain why enrollment went from just over 1,000 a couple years ago to 873 and is projected in future years to be in the 870s. Also explain RCES’s lagging test scores.

I’d love to believe you that RCES is this terrific school, as we’re districted to it and love the neighborhood, but the numbers just don’t back you up.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02159.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1
My kid attended RCES and then we had to move to Fairfax County for a few years. Now we are back and I'm happy about it. Its a good school, but so is Dufief. Obviously, there is animosity between the Kentlands/Lakelands residents with students that attend RCES and those that live outside those areas. Those outside these neighborhoods tend to think of the Kentlands/Lakelands residents as being elitist and looking down at non-residents and Kentlands/Lakelands residents want the school to be a walkable neighborhood school. There are other issues along this line that have been ongoing for years. As for the Mormon comment, I don't get it.

So, the presence of kids from the Governor Square Apartments somehow makes it impossible for kids from Kentlands to walk to school?

Or did you mean to say, "Residents who don't live in Kentlands/Lakelands correctly believe that Kentlands/Lakelands residents don't want them there."?

I’m a different poster, but I think this poster was probably referring to the fact that Kentlands and Lakelands parents would like to keep their communities zoned for the same elementary school rather than split between RCES and Dufief. If some RCES students get rezoned to Dufief, they want it to be students from other neighborhoods. However, the easiest way to siphon off 300 RCES students would have been to rezone a chunk of Lakelands, which is why parents historically accepted the overcrowding.

We live in Lakelands. Here’s the thing: It would be great to have a single ES for Kentlands and Lakelands, but even if you *only* had kids from those two neighborhoods going to RCES, it would still be overcrowded. RCES was built for Kentlands; as soon as Lakelands was built, RCES basically hit capacity.

So even putting aside any students who live outside Kentlands/Lakelands, you’re still talking about the need for more than one ES.