Why are parents so unempowered?

[Anonymous]

I think back to my childhood - I am 43 - and although I am sur my parents weren't perfect - my memory growing up was that my parents (and all adults) were in charg and I was meant to do what they said. If I did not - they would be mad at me and that was not a good feeling (we did, also, get spanked once in a while.....). I went to Catholic school with nuns and they were tough. I was just brought up to respect and somewhat fear adults. Kids these days (wow I sound old) do not seem to respect adults. My son has some friends who come for playdates and ask me for things - like: "hey - can I have a glass of water?" They don't listen and they are rude! I see it at school - kids don't have any fear of adults. I want my kids to respect me when I speak to them - I try to be firm but gentle - the way my parents were with me - it doesn't always seem to work. I don't want to resort to screaming and yelling - sometimes you feel like "how can I get through to them?" Kids seem oblivious to authority. I wonder, often, how my parents' generation instilled this respect in us - I just don't see it in the parents around me or even myself......

[Anonymous]

I guess it's the fear aspect that concerns me. I don't ever want my children to fear me or any other adults. Respect yes. But not fear. And I think they're very, very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess it's the fear aspect that concerns me. I don't ever want my children to fear me or any other adults. Respect yes. But not fear. And I think they're very, very different.

When I used the word fear I guess it can be interpreted differently - of course not the kind of fear where a child is scared of a parent - but fear, in the sense that they respect and want to please the parent.....I guess it is a strong word......

[Anonymous]

My take on this is that most people generally agreed with OP's overall stance but she came off so condescending and superior that it was difficult to the appreciate the main thrust of her argument because the overwhelming feeling one got off her post was one of condemnation. In short her delivery was off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP brought up some interesting points. Hubby and I are expecting our first later this year, so perhaps I will be shunned for posting on this topic, but here goes. While I recognize I have an outsider's point of view at this point, I think I have observed enough instances of parents catering to their child(ren) to avoid tears/a scene/etc that much of what OP wrote has merit to me. And I didn't interpret that she is "witholding love" simply because she does not write her little evening notes to the kids when they misbehave. That is far from being anything remotely cruel or somehow demonstrating that she doesn't love them, in my opinion.

That all said, good luck to all parents. It looks to be the hardest job in the world. And no one is perfect. (I never got that sense from the OP, so I am not sure why so many are being quite saracastic to that end.)

Because you do not have a child yet, your opinion to me is meaningless. You are correct in saying you are an outsider. She is holding back love, it is sick. You may change your view when you are actually a parent.

You're a jerk. She's an outsider???? I think she's entitled to her opinion and welcome on this board.

[Anonymous]

Ref PP 08:39-I'm confused-why can't a child ask for a glass of water?

[Anonymous]

I really appreciated OP's clarification, that there is a difference between parents who make an active choice to be more non-coercive, more consensus-based, in parenting (her examples, letting the child work out when and how to eat and sleep) versus those parents who seem to prefer to be more structured but are struggling to actually do so. I'm in the former camp, and the original post did feel like an attack on my very personal and very thought-out choices so it is nice to know that's not where she was coming from.

As for the generational comparison, I'm pushing 40 but was raised in a fairly non-punitive, non-authoritarian environment with lots of openness. I was encouraged to learn how to make good choices, and I had good examples to follow. My parents are agnostics and we did not go to church. The result was far from what the naysayers about this parenting style would suggest. I was actually a goody-goody, even teacher's pet type. I looked out for my younger sibling and cousins. I cared then and now a lot about doing the right thing, being polite, etc. (I will say I also don't automatically accept that a rule is right just because it's a rule -- I'm not out there flaunting any rules, but I would not have a hard time engaging in an act of civil disobedience if I felt it were called for.) I've got plenty of weaknesses and issues like anybody else, just not the ones that many people would seem to predict based on how I was raised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP brought up some interesting points. Hubby and I are expecting our first later this year, so perhaps I will be shunned for posting on this topic, but here goes. While I recognize I have an outsider's point of view at this point, I think I have observed enough instances of parents catering to their child(ren) to avoid tears/a scene/etc that much of what OP wrote has merit to me. And I didn't interpret that she is "witholding love" simply because she does not write her little evening notes to the kids when they misbehave. That is far from being anything remotely cruel or somehow demonstrating that she doesn't love them, in my opinion.

That all said, good luck to all parents. It looks to be the hardest job in the world. And no one is perfect. (I never got that sense from the OP, so I am not sure why so many are being quite saracastic to that end.)

Because you do not have a child yet, your opinion to me is meaningless. You are correct in saying you are an outsider. She is holding back love, it is sick. You may change your view when you are actually a parent.

You're a jerk. She's an outsider???? I think she's entitled to her opinion and welcome on this board.

I think that you probably could have come up with a more eloquent way of saying you disagree with her. Calling someone a "jerk" just makes you sound like an angry person. And not too bright either.

[Anonymous]

"Ref PP 08:39-I'm confused-why can't a child ask for a glass of water?"

Of course a child can ask for a glass of water, that was not the poster point. I think the point was the way they ask not 'hey...can I have a glass of water?"

but rather "Please, may I have a glass of water" followed by a "thank you" when they get the glass of water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I missing something here? I read all these posts by moms who can’t get their toddler out of their bed, or the paci out of their toddler’s mouths, or food into the toddler etc. And then there’s parents with babies who hit them, are rude to them, throw tantrums and bite/scratch each other. I don’t consider myself a perfect parent (god forbid!) but this is just an anathema to me. My kids have always gone to bed at 6.30 (cuddles, sickness and night feeds not withstanding) because why would you get a child into a pattern that you then have to break? Why would you do something different and then try and ‘train’ them otherwise? We have zero tolerance for hitting, spitting etc and have a time-out/no treat consequence-combo that seems to do the trick. If any one of my babies are mean to me then they get no bedtime stories with daddy and no mommy-notes (I generally write them little snippets about stuff I love about them each night for bedtime) until they apologize properly. When did the littlest inmates take over the asylum? Why are parents so unempowered that they are held ransom by their kids? I find myself reading so many of these posts (which are helpful for the most part because we’re all feeling our way here) and wondering why people let their kids dictate their own lives. I don’t comment on most of the strands because others say things much more eloquently than myself but I find myself wanting to urge parents to take control. If you don’t like getting up a zillion times a night to put the paci back in then don’t do it. Chuck the darn thing in the bin. If you worry that the toddler in your bed is wrecking your marriage then get the toddler out of the bed and into a cot. If you think your child is disrespectful then ask yourself: is there a consequence or does the child just think s/he can get away with it? (Same goes for husbands I might add). We all seem to lament that children (writ large) are more selfish and demanding but is it surprising when they are given the impression that a few tears gets instant gratification – even if it’s not in their best interests?

There we go. I feel better now.

Just a few things related to the points in bold above. First, I'm not sure why you put your children to bed at 6:30 (regardless of age?) unless it's to meet your own needs. Children need to be integrated into family life, especially through sharing family dinners. If you work outside the home, you must spend very little time with your children if they're in bed that early.

Second, you're attributing motives to your "babies" by saying they're "mean" to you. Children try things out. They need to be able to do that in a safe environment. You're using consequences in a way that responsible advocates would not intend. Which brings me to the third point of the damage of withholding affection, or using what we shrinks study as "love withdrawal" as a consequence for behavior. It's terribly damaging, as demonstrated by a number of empirical studies. Natural or logical consequences are fine; love withdrawal is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the OP brought up some interesting points. Hubby and I are expecting our first later this year, so perhaps I will be shunned for posting on this topic, but here goes. While I recognize I have an outsider's point of view at this point, I think I have observed enough instances of parents catering to their child(ren) to avoid tears/a scene/etc that much of what OP wrote has merit to me. And I didn't interpret that she is "witholding love" simply because she does not write her little evening notes to the kids when they misbehave. That is far from being anything remotely cruel or somehow demonstrating that she doesn't love them, in my opinion.

That all said, good luck to all parents. It looks to be the hardest job in the world. And no one is perfect. (I never got that sense from the OP, so I am not sure why so many are being quite saracastic to that end.)

Because you do not have a child yet, your opinion to me is meaningless. You are correct in saying you are an outsider. She is holding back love, it is sick. You may change your view when you are actually a parent.

You're a jerk. She's an outsider???? I think she's entitled to her opinion and welcome on this board.

read her post Jerk, she called herself an outsider, I did not say she was not wlecome on this board or that others would take her point to heart, I said, TO ME her opinion was meaningless because she does not have children. You apparently have a problem comprehending a sentence.

[dgahagan]

My son is in bed every night by 7:30-because he's yawning and tired! I'd love to spend more time with him, but he's on a schedule. And we love it that he's on a schedule because my dh and I can have our lives too! We know when we can watch a movie, have sex, talk...whatever we need to do. I can't imagine living in chaos. Children need boundaries, schedules, at least that's how we were brought up. I have wonderful parents, but I feared them...I didn't do drugs, have sex, hang out with people they wouldn't approve of because of that fear. It sure kept us in line! I love my son more than anything, but he's not running the show and will learn to say please and thank you. We're not our son's friends, we're his parents.

[Anonymous]

While OP's points are valid, her holier'than'thou tone made the post offensive.
OP -- Maybe you should write a book so the rest of us schlubs can learn from you.

[Anonymous]

dgahagan, I asked OP why her children go to bed at 6:30 with no apparent regard for their age. I'm glad you feared your parents, if you think that was beneficial to you. I think you are confusing authoritarian parenting with authoritative parenting. In the former, there's a certain amount of fear. In the latter, parents are parents, not their children's friends. There's a great deal of gray area between a rigid schedule and chaos, but if you're more comfortable with black and white, good for you.

[Anonymous]

dgahagan wrote:My son is in bed every night by 7:30-because he's yawning and tired! I'd love to spend more time with him, but he's on a schedule. And we love it that he's on a schedule because my dh and I can have our lives too! We know when we can watch a movie, have sex, talk...whatever we need to do. I can't imagine living in chaos. Children need boundaries, schedules, at least that's how we were brought up. I have wonderful parents, but I feared them...I didn't do drugs, have sex, hang out with people they wouldn't approve of because of that fear. It sure kept us in line! I love my son more than anything, but he's not running the show and will learn to say please and thank you. We're not our son's friends, we're his parents.

What exactly is your point? Not one poster here said kids should not have boundaries or schedules. All posters are saying is that withholding love is not healthy and that the OP's tone was condemning. I don't think anyone would argue that kids need to go to bed at a reasonable hour so that they can function properly.
Also we all have different parenting styles and different children. I have a friend whose daughter will only sleep for 8 hours no matter when you put her to bed and she has been that way since she was a toddler. Her son needs 11 hours. As a result they have different bed times althoigh her daughter has a set time that she has to go to her room. They are now 9 and 7 respectively and they are the nicest, most well behaved children you could ever hope to meet. They are the topic of conversation wherever they go. My son needs 11 hours sleep but I would never tell my friend that my way is better than hers because of my own experiences. We have to give our fellow parents the respect and freedom to make choices they know best suit their own family without condemning them.
I personally would hate for my kids to fear me. Respect yes, but not fear. But if that is what you want for your kids that is your prerogative.