Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing that AAP should do is change the exam questions every year as well as release the previous years tests for everyone to study. This is what College Board does. Can you imagine the same SAT being administered each year and each session?

How ridiculous is that?

This is the only change that should happen. Change the questions each year, stupid!!

aap uses Cogats which has available published prep material. TJ's quant q is only available if previous takers memorize questions and then pass on that knowledge. Which appears to have happened at currie

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience has been that - Whites may lack the cultural and domestic structure in place to do better than Asian-Americans - just as much as the disadvantaged minority. Especially during the pandemic this will be an added burden.

I also think Asian-Americans should insist on the results of the exams to be made public and sue if it is not so. Merit should count not race. Especially not for White students since economically and socially they are not disadvantaged like Blacks and Hispanics.

You're totally not racist at all

Nope. Not racist. These changes are being done to benefit Whites. Not any other racial group.

yep, ascribing qualities based on race isn't racist at all

[Anonymous]

These changes are being done to benefit Whites. Not any other racial group.

You would be wrong.


They were talking about this long before TJ was majority Asian.

They changed GT to AAP to try to get more Blacks and HIspanics. Didn't work.

[Anonymous]

I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

[Anonymous]

Evidence that this is not about getting more white students. And, believe me, this was discussed long before that.

From 2011:

http://www.fcag.org/documents/tj/AdmissionsOutreachPlan2011-2012.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

This is freaking outrageous. And if it was just discovered this year, it's undoubtedly been going on for years.

Unreal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that some cheating scandal from outside the Beltway was the primary agitator in VDOE and FCPS crackdown on the change at TJ. Is this true? Can someone help with recounting what this scandal was that will ultimately lead to the demise of this school?

1) It wasn't the primary agitator, but it certainly helped make the case for the previous process being incredibly flawed

2) It won't lead to the demise of the school, it'll just lead to a slightly different group of students being granted admission

FCPS won't throw just anyone with a 3.5 into the lottery. They will want the class of 2025 to succeed and will select for the lottery in accordance - and there will be plenty of extremely qualified Black and Hispanic students who apply as a consequence. No need to worry.

That makes no sense if they are moving to a "lottery" system. If you are saying there will be thresholds attached to the "making the lottery," then again, you may be creating a situation where blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately affected. So, you've just moved the target but haven't solved the real problem. Also, how do you get enough blacks and Hispanics to get to the 3.5 GPA? Isn't that also part of the problem?

do you have any data showing that there won't be more URMs hitting this threshold as a portion of the lottery pool than are currently enrolled at TJ as a portion of the student body

I honestly see so many ways to game this "lottery" system (e.g., move into one of the Regions where you have the greatest chances of getting in) that it's strange that FCPS or VDOE doesn't see it happening.

do you think FCPS would be upset if high achieving students moved into failing middle schools?

They're aligning prepping for the TJ test (most akin to getting some SAT prepbooks and doing that prepping) as 'unfair' but they somehow think that the same parents won't be able to find a workaround.

they're saying the students who had access to the test cheated

I could easily get a 6-month lease and move into one of the other Regions of FCPS with my 3.5+ GPA kid (during the last two months of 8th grade) and roll the lottery.

again, I'm sure Whitman would welcome your child and be happy to have them

Then if I don't get it, I go back to where I'm from. And, if I get in, I still move back to where I'm from. Parents with money won't think twice about spending the saved $$ on a scheme like this. It's just whacky! There's no way to seriously control someone from gaming the system, and if that is what is being done anyway, then maybe address the issue in a different manner.

so you're saying they shouldn't bother

Wouldn't it be easier to start a program for blacks and Hispanics who could be targeted for adminissions into TJ throughout the ES into MS years. Breed the success, rather than foster an attempt for the gamers to find another way to game the system?

nope, you're actually proposing separate but equal

Separate but equal is illegal in the United States of America and has been since the 1950's-1960's. All children regardless of race and ethnicity are entitled to access to a quality education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

so the lack of black kids- that's perfectly fine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

Understand that if the top tier school is 80% Asian it is discriminatory to AA and Hispanics. Clearly the Asians are being admitted so they are not being discriminated against.

We do not do "separate but equal" education in the United States of American. It is illegal in the US and has been since the 1950's and 1960's.

If PP wants an Asian only school you will probably need to go to your home country. Not admitting AA and Hispanics into a school is illegal in the US.

We used to have separate but equal schools in the 1950's in Virginia. That was called segregation. It is illegal in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

Understand that if the top tier school is 80% Asian it is discriminatory to AA and Hispanics. Clearly the Asians are being admitted so they are not being discriminated against.

We do not do "separate but equal" education in the United States of American. It is illegal in the US and has been since the 1950's and 1960's.

If PP wants an Asian only school you will probably need to go to your home country. Not admitting AA and Hispanics into a school is illegal in the US.

We used to have separate but equal schools in the 1950's in Virginia. That was called segregation. It is illegal in the US.

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

[Anonymous]

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

Wow. How many kids were denied admission or waitlisted, that would have been admitted, if not for the cheaters having taken those spots? Couldn’t the County be sued?

Again, who was cheating? Are people who take SAT test prep "cheating"? This sounds like the same kind of activity.

The SAT is not secured, nor are almost any other standardized test you see. So no, it's not cheating to prep for it.

The Quant-Q is secured, so yes, it is cheating to use materials that are supposed to be secured to prepare for it.

So who got the "secured" materials? Unless the students who took the test are under an NDA, they are free to discuss the test with anyone.

They signed one at the beginning of the test. Now do you agree there was a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did somehow people cheat to get into the school?

In a nutshell, one prep company prepped 28% of this years freshman. That’s 133 kids. It’s insane given how competing the prep company market is in NVa. Two years ago, they got 51 kids in and last year it was around 80. The company has been around for YEARS, so such a massive increase raises eyebrows. The company (foolishly) posted the lists of first and last names TJ admits to their FB page each year, so it’s easy to verify.

THEN, current TJ students started posting online on various social media that the company HAD A COPY of the test ahead of time. This test is supposed to be “unpreppable” but the company got students to report back what the questions were after the test. Then they used that to help the students taking the test on the accommodations day, summer round admissions and of course for the next years class. Apparently FCPS and the owners of the TJ admissions test have been watching the company for a while, so this was a good opportunity to do something. This prep company is making millions off of gaming the TJ admissions process.

Added on top of that the this prep company virtually ONLY preps students of one specific background. Added to that almost no Hispanic or black students were admitted and girls were sorely underrepresented as well. It just looks disgusting and simply cannot continue.

Our very own Varsity Blues-type scandal for FCPS. Awesome, thanks cheaters for creating a problem during a time when there are already plenty of problems.

Wow. How many kids were denied admission or waitlisted, that would have been admitted, if not for the cheaters having taken those spots? Couldn’t the County be sued?

Again, who was cheating? Are people who take SAT test prep "cheating"? This sounds like the same kind of activity.

The SAT is not secured, nor are almost any other standardized test you see. So no, it's not cheating to prep for it.

The Quant-Q is secured, so yes, it is cheating to use materials that are supposed to be secured to prepare for it.

So who got the "secured" materials? Unless the students who took the test are under an NDA, they are free to discuss the test with anyone.

TJ students report having signed a pledge not to discuss the exam or its questions with anyone.

So nobody cheated. They potentially violated a non-enforceable "pledge".

This is why cheating has been rampant at TJ for years. The parents have no moral compass. Good riddance to the current admissions process and culture of cheating to get ahead under the guise of being a meritocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.