The impossiblity of mothering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to get over the idea that your primary role is to be loving. Being a disciplinarian (TEACHING your kid) is equally important. My son is only 8 now but he sounds a lot like your kid. I'm disturbed that you've conclude he's "not good," as opposed to considering that you lack parenting skills. My son responds extremely well to incentives. I've long since given up the idealized notion that he should respond to softly spoken conversations about the values of being "kind" or whatever. All kids want what they want; that's normal.

I think he needs the opposite, loving. He needs boundaries too, but mostly loving. In most kids issues are caused by lack of something. Usually it is the attention they seek. Now, this kid doesn't have a dad, could be that op is not able to fill this particular need. She clearly works and has kids to take care of. Somethings gotta give. This child likely tried to get what he needs and after repeatedly failing, gave up. He has come to a conclusion that he will never get it and gave up.
To the money situation op, what did you offer your ds instead of the money present? Did you ds receive a present of equal value, equal in his mind?

I don't disagree at all! But loving and discipline are NOT the opposites of each other. My two touchstones for parenting advice are Kazdin and Greenspan. Together, they teach you how to discipline positively AND the value of giving your undivided, unconditional attention & love to your child. The problem with emphasizing only "loving" (without support on how to discipline appropriately) is that the "loving" parent gets totally frustrated when the child acts out, even if the acting out is within the realm of normal. Then they flip-flop to the other extreme and become abusive/authoritarian. This is exactly the dynamic OP is showing - some kind of idealized belief that parenting should all be about "loving"; an absence of parenting skills to teach discipline and handle bad behavior; followed by a switch to the polar opposite (freaking out on her kid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I have an 8 year like this. As much as he is a loving, caring, and personable child, he can push a saint over the line. Our last major issue was him not putting his clean clothes away. He went would hide them and lie about no matter how many times I caught him. His older brother (whom he loves) tried to encourage, and even bribe him. It went on for months. It got out of hand. I had threatened to take all of his toys away and finally had to follow through. I took every last toy and privilege away. He would have to earn each toy/privilege back one by one, with his favorite toys being returned last. If he slipped up, he went back to no toys/privileges and we would start again. I can't begin to tell you how hard this was for everyone in the house. It sucked, but it was the only thing that finally worked. I tell you all of this to hopefully provide some hope, to tell you that kids need to know that you are serious, and that you have to find the consequence that works for your child.

You are a MONSTER!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12 year old kid who doesn’t have a dad? I’m sorry, but he is angry. And he doesn’t want mothering. He wants fathering. And it is what it is. He can’t get fathering. He will survive, but he is going to be angry and that’s his right. I suggest therapy just so he’s aware of what’s going on with his emotions. It won’t change his behavior per se in the short term. In the meantime, are there any trustworthy dudes you know who can mentor him? Teach him something? Guitar? Skateboarding? Woodworking etc. Good luck! Distance is normal at this age even in nuclear families.

No, he needs discipline (which has nothing to do with gender). A kid like OP's would completely melt down with stereotypical authoritarian "fathering." And lol at the idea that woodworking is some sort of magic key.

LOL right it's not like biological sex hasn't been at the heart of human evolution, socialization, and growth into adulthood for tens of thousands of years or anything. Definitely, for sure, growing through adolescence and into adulthood has absolutely nothing to do with how you interact with the male half of the human race, we can say that for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to get over the idea that your primary role is to be loving. Being a disciplinarian (TEACHING your kid) is equally important. My son is only 8 now but he sounds a lot like your kid. I'm disturbed that you've conclude he's "not good," as opposed to considering that you lack parenting skills. My son responds extremely well to incentives. I've long since given up the idealized notion that he should respond to softly spoken conversations about the values of being "kind" or whatever. All kids want what they want; that's normal.

I think he needs the opposite, loving. He needs boundaries too, but mostly loving. In most kids issues are caused by lack of something. Usually it is the attention they seek. Now, this kid doesn't have a dad, could be that op is not able to fill this particular need. She clearly works and has kids to take care of. Somethings gotta give. This child likely tried to get what he needs and after repeatedly failing, gave up. He has come to a conclusion that he will never get it and gave up.
To the money situation op, what did you offer your ds instead of the money present? Did you ds receive a present of equal value, equal in his mind?

I don't disagree at all! But loving and discipline are NOT the opposites of each other. My two touchstones for parenting advice are Kazdin and Greenspan. Together, they teach you how to discipline positively AND the value of giving your undivided, unconditional attention & love to your child. The problem with emphasizing only "loving" (without support on how to discipline appropriately) is that the "loving" parent gets totally frustrated when the child acts out, even if the acting out is within the realm of normal. Then they flip-flop to the other extreme and become abusive/authoritarian. This is exactly the dynamic OP is showing - some kind of idealized belief that parenting should all be about "loving"; an absence of parenting skills to teach discipline and handle bad behavior; followed by a switch to the polar opposite (freaking out on her kid).

Yes, indeed, both are needed. I don't see from OP's post examples of her loving though? How did she say she shows love and affection to her ds? I mean she wrote she is caring nad provides roof and food, but what example did she give that was not punitive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, consider reading a book called Parenting with Love and Logic.

A lot of it is about logical / natural consequences.

Are you willing to share what line he crossed, and what the punishment was?

He stole money from a sibling. Kid is old enough to know stealing is wrong, WTF. But it wasn't just the money -- we're talking about a small amount, but it was a gift from a special relative so it was like a keepsake that one of my other DCs wanted to keep as a souvenir, not as money. It can't be replaced. He had asked again and again if he could borrow, use and replace, the money and has been told no. We're talking a year and a half of asking and being told no. We're not talking about a lot of money either -- but the idea that he was told no for over a year, did it anyway knowing it would hurt his sibling's feelings (and mine) and could not be replaced with any other money, and then lied about having done it, then said his sibling deserved it, then said it was no big deal, "I already said I'm sorry," etc etc on and on and on and on -- I just lost it. This is how he operates, so it may not seem like a big deal, but it was the last straw for me. He had already lost screens for something else (and yes he has incentives -- he was told that screens were no longer considered a right, that if he wanted screens he had to earn them back, etc -- no impact). Plus he's been begging me for a phone, so I have been telling him for months that if he shows me he can be trusted he'll earn a phone, but he keeps saying he will and then doing dishonest shit like this.

I told him our phone deal was off. I was no longer going to be negotiating in good faith with someone who lies right to my face. I told him he was grounded for a month. I told him he would be replacing the money he took three-fold. I was super pissed (not talking to him in a soft voice, LOL). Nothing but self-pity and denial in response. Finally I said he sucked as a human being, that he wasn't doing any of the things he's been told to do to be a good person (or avoiding the things he's been told over and over to avoid to not be a bad person, like lying oamd stealing, again WTF) and that I was done. Just finished, and that if he was going to steal from family members, then he'd better watch his own back, too. Later he said he hadn't meant what he said, and I said "I did."

Not my finest moment as a mom, clearly. I admit that. I just lost it. I'm just completely and totally done operating in good faith with this kid and knowing he is going to punch me in the gut (emotionally) again and again and again.

Wow. To be honest your response sounds VERY over the top to me. I would say that few kids would grow up without doing something as bad as that. What you seem to be saying is that he stole a small amount of money from a family member and then got petulant and angry when called on it? That just doesn't sound like very extreme behavior to me. It's more like being a kid.

[Anonymous]

Many of these extreme responses are clearly from parents whose idea of solo parenting is a long weekend when their spouse is away. It is very easy to slip into negativity when you are the only one doing it 24/7. Just call his pediatrician and make an appointment. Ruling out other things like ADHD will help target what the issue is. Plus you can get a referral for counseling for the both of you. It might help reset the dynamic. It's hard. I wrote before about me being in this same situation with my DS. I was relieved when I found out he had ADHD and that I no longer had to exhaust myself disciplining him. Ignore the rude responses. Start tomorrow making the pediatrician appointment and back way off with the things that don't matter (and when you think about it, most of them don't).

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm sorry for the difficulties you're having. I have a child with anxiety and lots of defiance. One of the things his counselor taught us was the art of special time. I know you hear lots of "oh, spend 20 mins a day with your kid" advice, but this kind of special time is a little different. Here are the rules:

1. Child gets to pick the activity.
2. During said activity, the adult is to be actively narrating the child's actions. It sounds ridiculous and trust me, it feels even more so, but you do so to show your child that they have 100% of your attention.
3. Adult asks NO questions whatsoever during the activity. Even if you need help with the activity, you still can't ask. The reason is that even a simple seemingly innocuous question can be taken as a implicit criticism. For example, I might ask my son, "Why did you zig instead of zagging?" but my kid might interpret it as "Oh, maybe I should've zagged, I must've done something wrong."
4. Activity is 20 mins or so each day.
5. If at the end, your child has trouble transitioning away, or just wants and wants and wants like mine does, you can spend a couple of minutes talking about the next day's special time.

Honestly, it sounds totally hokey, but doing this has helped a lot. Our kid reports this therapist how much he enjoys special time and his behavior has definitely improved. I'm not saying it's a panacea, but it might be a good place to start to reconnect while you figure out other issues.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Wow, so many spot-on assessments of my kid. Too many to summarize in this post but THANK YOU again to all who have replied with some understanding of the situation.

I love this kid and most of our interactions are warm and loving. Obviously my post was not about that so i didn't include any descriptions of that, LOL.

In addition to known food allergies, I think he may have ADD and also RAD. He stayed with us for a long weekend as an infant and never went back home. I ended up adopting him. In his short life he had already been starved, otherwise neglected and abused. I suppose all that is in there, even though I do feel I bonded with him very quickly and he did, too. Maybe it is written on his hard drive.

Again, lots to digest. Thanks again to all the uncannily spot-on assessments. This had been the most helpful thread I've ever been on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, so many spot-on assessments of my kid. Too many to summarize in this post but THANK YOU again to all who have replied with some understanding of the situation.

I love this kid and most of our interactions are warm and loving. Obviously my post was not about that so i didn't include any descriptions of that, LOL.

In addition to known food allergies, I think he may have ADD and also RAD. He stayed with us for a long weekend as an infant and never went back home. I ended up adopting him. In his short life he had already been starved, otherwise neglected and abused. I suppose all that is in there, even though I do feel I bonded with him very quickly and he did, too. Maybe it is written on his hard drive.

Again, lots to digest. Thanks again to all the uncannily spot-on assessments. This had been the most helpful thread I've ever been on.

13:37 here. OP, given this additional information, you HAVE to get him (and yourself) into therapy. There are a lot of factors at play here. His adoption and possible RAD very much need to be explored. I'm not anti-adoption by any means- am in fact an adult adoptee and a parent to adopted children myself. Also, my son (not adopted) has food allergies too. Don't discount the anxiety that may give him, and with anxiety often comes a need for control that manifests itself in many a way.

[Anonymous]

OP. First of all hugs to you and sorry if I was harsh. I am pp who said RAD and asked about what happened when he was an infant. You are incredibly brave and generous to adopt him and give him the love he needs!
There are some support groups that you might look into, if you did not alreary do so, such as
https://adoption.com/rad-support-group-for-parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole “punishments don’t matter” business can be a sign of ADHD.

Thank you. I'll look into that.

I almost think he's just gotten used to getting in trouble. Like he doesn't understand that he can control whether or not he gets in trouble by controlling his behavior. Seems like something basic he is not understanding about the world.

Look into ODD (oppositional defiant) as well.

[Anonymous]

1. Pep classes
2. Referral to neuropsych, see what you’re actually dealing with
3. Therapy for you
4. Therapy for him
5. Family therapy

When you say his father is gone, do you mean his adoptive father? Or a father figure from infancy, pre-adoption?

There are so many possibilities here. It might be adhd, or rad, or odd, or hfa. We don’t know. YOU don’t know. And you won’t know until you get it figured out.

Good luck, OP. Kudos first for giving this child a home, and for now reaching out for help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of these extreme responses are clearly from parents whose idea of solo parenting is a long weekend when their spouse is away. It is very easy to slip into negativity when you are the only one doing it 24/7. Just call his pediatrician and make an appointment. Ruling out other things like ADHD will help target what the issue is. Plus you can get a referral for counseling for the both of you. It might help reset the dynamic. It's hard. I wrote before about me being in this same situation with my DS. I was relieved when I found out he had ADHD and that I no longer had to exhaust myself disciplining him. Ignore the rude responses. Start tomorrow making the pediatrician appointment and back way off with the things that don't matter (and when you think about it, most of them don't).

New poster here, and I agree with this sentiment. I'm a single parent too. It is soooo hard doing this 24/7. There is no respite, ability to walk away, division of discipline duties, etc.

OP, I would have had a similar reaction. Stealing, lying about it, then trying to disclaim/not understanding the consequences at 12 yo, I would have had a hard time not losing my mind given the lead-up and circumstances.

What about having a "Family" meeting to talk about house rules and goals to reset the dynamic? Here's an example: https://www.theintentionalmom.com/family-house-rules-free-printable/

I think you need a reboot. It won't solve anything overnight, but it will give a new starting point. I completely hear you and understand the difficulty in being the loving/nurturing mom and disciplinarian. For me, I just try to be what the situation calls me to be. I tell the kids I love them every day, I give them lots of physical affection, but I come down hard if they aren't acting right. I just think you need to almost let go of the past and start over with new house rules and expectations, and very specific consequences for those actions (like what happens when he eats something he should not, what happens when he lies to your face, what happens when he doesn't do specific chores, etc.). That in combination with therapy may over time change his behavior as it won't be a battle all the time, just cause and effect.

[Anonymous]

This is OP again. We had a disturbing event happen several days ago, that I posted about here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/849222.page#16276521. Is it reasonable that the blow up I described in this thread was a side effect of that? This particular kid is more sensitive than my others, and for a couple of days was saying he felt weird, felt scared, and was the door locked, etc. I felt the same way. He also tends to act up whenever I'm under stress. It's uncanny.

I wonder if that precipitated this outburst on both our parts. Is it reasonable to think these two events are connected?

Thanks again to everyone who has helped us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. We had a disturbing event happen several days ago, that I posted about here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/849222.page#16276521. Is it reasonable that the blow up I described in this thread was a side effect of that? This particular kid is more sensitive than my others, and for a couple of days was saying he felt weird, felt scared, and was the door locked, etc. I felt the same way. He also tends to act up whenever I'm under stress. It's uncanny.

I wonder if that precipitated this outburst on both our parts. Is it reasonable to think these two events are connected?

Thanks again to everyone who has helped us.

NP. He's picking up on your stress, not the stress of the event directly. You need to calm down. If you don't feel safe, move.