Teen is all over his sister

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe OP at all. If something this obvious and blatant were going on, reactions from parents would be different.

I don't claim to be an expert, but this is absolutely false. The amount of denial and enabling that parents are capable of--whether it's abuse, addiction, whatever--is staggering. This has been shown over and over again.

[Anonymous]

I used to be a social worker in child welfare. OP, this is so worrisome and full of red flags. Keep in mind this is only the behavior you are seeing in public.

Yes, it's true that he's just overly physical but it's not anything sexual. However, that's not what I'm guessing.
It sounds like this girl has been conditioned by him and by her parents to learn that she just has to take it, no matter what she thinks or feels. This happens over and over in families. Nobody is supposed to set any limits with the perpetrator because then they would all have to face what's going on. So nobody says anything and some poor kid is abused over many years and maybe people noticed something seemed off, but nobody ever told him/her it was ok to say no, and nobody protected him/her.

If you don't think the mom will listen, could you talk to the daughter?
Either way, you can make an anonymous report to CPS. Or you can give your name. Whether you make a report or not, please at least tell the daughter that she can talk to you any time, anywhere, about anything. Throw her a lifeline, please!

[Anonymous]

PP here - meant to say it's true that it *could* be just physical roughhousing and nothing sexual but it doesn't seem that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is exactly like this with her older brother, and us parents as well. I bet the crazies on DCUM wouldn’t jump to conclusions in our situation!

1. Probably this child is an extreme sensory seeker.

2. But he should respect others’ wishes regarding personal space, and the parents are squarely responsible for enforcing that.

3. I would not call CPS, but I would tell the parents that it makes everyone uncomfortable, it’s not appropriate, and it’s wise for a young person to understand that no means no. Say it seriously, and they’ll take you seriously.

Statistically and physically speaking, it is very unlikely your younger DD is abusing her older brother unless there are very important facts missing from your post; that is not true in the case OP reports. In your situation, I would still intervene if it got to the level OP describes, but I would feel confident that DS is capable of stopping her himself AND that nothing worse is going on. In the OP's case, it is quite clear that the girl cannot stop her older brother and it is possible that something worse is going on. At the very least, she is getting a TERRIBLE message. Let's say this is all totally innocent sensory seeking from a brother on the spectrum, but she's learned she must go along w/ it and her parents are no help. What happens when an older boy at school behaves similarly for nefarious reasons? I can assure you she will think it's normal and not seek help and that, alone, is a major failure of parenting.

PP you replied to.

I agree that the parents need to teach their son not to invade his sister's personal space and treat her like an object, and that they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself. This is why OP needs to talk with the parents more forcefully. I disagree with the reflex reaction on these boards that a male is de facto a molester. That is why I don't think she should call CPS.

The parents are tolerating a situation and letting it continue when it is happening right in front of them. The people who should be protecting her are not and yes, you said they should teach the ds that he should not invade his sister's space and that is true. However, your language is problematic - putting this in there at all "they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself." She is having to share a bedroom with someone who is using her body for his own amusement, clearly against her wishes. Have your read that kids who are sexually molested shut down when someone touches them inappropriately. They shut down. This girl has shut down because he is grabbing her body and the people who are protecting her have not. I'm not saying she has been molested, but this situation is far beyond what OP can approach with the parents. They are IDIOTS. This kid needs real help, and needs someone trained in interviewing children who have been assaulted to speak with her. Not her dumbass parents.

If I CPS I feel like I would betray my friend. I think she's just naive or in denial.
If I call CPS it will cause a huge problem for them and they will probably have to hire a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

"Put her down, Joe! She said no, that means you stop!" If the parents decide that's too harsh and don't want to hang out with you, fine that's their choice.


I honestly can't imagine watching these kids and NOT saying something along these lines. I would step in and let the friend know it's not ok. Regardless of what she thinks is ok. And at the very least it will give the little girl the sense that she is right if it makes her uncomfortable, and that there are adults in the world that won't condone it like her mother does.

--mother of a 10 year old girl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is exactly like this with her older brother, and us parents as well. I bet the crazies on DCUM wouldn’t jump to conclusions in our situation!

1. Probably this child is an extreme sensory seeker.

2. But he should respect others’ wishes regarding personal space, and the parents are squarely responsible for enforcing that.

3. I would not call CPS, but I would tell the parents that it makes everyone uncomfortable, it’s not appropriate, and it’s wise for a young person to understand that no means no. Say it seriously, and they’ll take you seriously.

Statistically and physically speaking, it is very unlikely your younger DD is abusing her older brother unless there are very important facts missing from your post; that is not true in the case OP reports. In your situation, I would still intervene if it got to the level OP describes, but I would feel confident that DS is capable of stopping her himself AND that nothing worse is going on. In the OP's case, it is quite clear that the girl cannot stop her older brother and it is possible that something worse is going on. At the very least, she is getting a TERRIBLE message. Let's say this is all totally innocent sensory seeking from a brother on the spectrum, but she's learned she must go along w/ it and her parents are no help. What happens when an older boy at school behaves similarly for nefarious reasons? I can assure you she will think it's normal and not seek help and that, alone, is a major failure of parenting.

PP you replied to.

I agree that the parents need to teach their son not to invade his sister's personal space and treat her like an object, and that they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself. This is why OP needs to talk with the parents more forcefully. I disagree with the reflex reaction on these boards that a male is de facto a molester. That is why I don't think she should call CPS.

The parents are tolerating a situation and letting it continue when it is happening right in front of them. The people who should be protecting her are not and yes, you said they should teach the ds that he should not invade his sister's space and that is true. However, your language is problematic - putting this in there at all "they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself." She is having to share a bedroom with someone who is using her body for his own amusement, clearly against her wishes. Have your read that kids who are sexually molested shut down when someone touches them inappropriately. They shut down. This girl has shut down because he is grabbing her body and the people who are protecting her have not. I'm not saying she has been molested, but this situation is far beyond what OP can approach with the parents. They are IDIOTS. This kid needs real help, and needs someone trained in interviewing children who have been assaulted to speak with her. Not her dumbass parents.

If I CPS I feel like I would betray my friend. I think she's just naive or in denial.
If I call CPS it will cause a huge problem for them and they will probably have to hire a lawyer.

If you don't call CPS this kid grows up being constantly molested. But hey, your friend doesn't have to pay for a lawyer, so that's a wash, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here . We'll be going on a weekend getaway with them in a week. I'm going to have a serious talk with their mother.

But I'm not sure how much affect it will have on her. I told her I don't want my kid sleeping in the same room with the boy. And she said her kids are "inseparable" and will only sleep together in the bedroom. Inseparable my ass..

As long as your kids are safe, I guess that is what matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has he gone through puberty yet?

If that is how it has always been and he hasn't yet gone through puberty then I don't think it is that weird. If the sister likes the affection and the kids are just close then physical affection isn't a bad thing.

OP here. He was weird like this a few years ago. For example, he would get on top of her on the floor and lie there and kiss her.

I don't know how she feels about it anymore. She sometimes be resists but he's strong and always gets his way, while parents just let them work things out. I think the girl just goes along. Feels like there are no boundaries respected at all. If she says no he doesn't stop and the parents just think kids will work it out themselves.

He’s probably raping her behind closed doors. He understands his parents are ok with it. The rape victim has no choice.

[Anonymous]

He's 13-14. Can he really be that mean?

[Anonymous]

So I tip CPS and then my friend will be sharing this with me and am I supposed to pretend it wasn't me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here . We'll be going on a weekend getaway with them in a week. I'm going to have a serious talk with their mother.

But I'm not sure how much affect it will have on her. I told her I don't want my kid sleeping in the same room with the boy. And she said her kids are "inseparable" and will only sleep together in the bedroom. Inseparable my ass..

As long as your kids are safe, I guess that is what matters.

I suggested the girls share the room but she says her kids want to sleep together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is exactly like this with her older brother, and us parents as well. I bet the crazies on DCUM wouldn’t jump to conclusions in our situation!

1. Probably this child is an extreme sensory seeker.

2. But he should respect others’ wishes regarding personal space, and the parents are squarely responsible for enforcing that.

3. I would not call CPS, but I would tell the parents that it makes everyone uncomfortable, it’s not appropriate, and it’s wise for a young person to understand that no means no. Say it seriously, and they’ll take you seriously.

Statistically and physically speaking, it is very unlikely your younger DD is abusing her older brother unless there are very important facts missing from your post; that is not true in the case OP reports. In your situation, I would still intervene if it got to the level OP describes, but I would feel confident that DS is capable of stopping her himself AND that nothing worse is going on. In the OP's case, it is quite clear that the girl cannot stop her older brother and it is possible that something worse is going on. At the very least, she is getting a TERRIBLE message. Let's say this is all totally innocent sensory seeking from a brother on the spectrum, but she's learned she must go along w/ it and her parents are no help. What happens when an older boy at school behaves similarly for nefarious reasons? I can assure you she will think it's normal and not seek help and that, alone, is a major failure of parenting.

PP you replied to.

I agree that the parents need to teach their son not to invade his sister's personal space and treat her like an object, and that they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself. This is why OP needs to talk with the parents more forcefully. I disagree with the reflex reaction on these boards that a male is de facto a molester. That is why I don't think she should call CPS.

The parents are tolerating a situation and letting it continue when it is happening right in front of them. The people who should be protecting her are not and yes, you said they should teach the ds that he should not invade his sister's space and that is true. However, your language is problematic - putting this in there at all "they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself." She is having to share a bedroom with someone who is using her body for his own amusement, clearly against her wishes. Have your read that kids who are sexually molested shut down when someone touches them inappropriately. They shut down. This girl has shut down because he is grabbing her body and the people who are protecting her have not. I'm not saying she has been molested, but this situation is far beyond what OP can approach with the parents. They are IDIOTS. This kid needs real help, and needs someone trained in interviewing children who have been assaulted to speak with her. Not her dumbass parents.

If I CPS I feel like I would betray my friend. I think she's just naive or in denial.
If I call CPS it will cause a huge problem for them and they will probably have to hire a lawyer.

OP, this is not about betraying your friend. This is about helping your friend. You friend is destroying the lives of BOTH of her children if this is allowed to continue.
She may be naive or in denial. So CPS may be the only way to jump start the solution to this problem.

You worry "it will cause a huge problem for them"
They already HAVE a huge problem. There are lifelong consequences for the entire family if this doesn't get fixed. The problem is already there. Getting outside help is the start of a solution.

You worry "they will probably have to hire a lawyer"
I don't know about that, but $ should not be a deterrent from doing the right thing. Also, by getting authorities involved, they will actually get access to the appropriate resources.
Every family member needs counseling. They get information about resources. They'll get strategies for fixing it.

Please, please help this family, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I tip CPS and then my friend will be sharing this with me and am I supposed to pretend it wasn't me?

When you contact CPS, I suggest you explain the situation, and see what they advise. (Maybe PP with social work experience can come back?)

You could go into full listening mode. You could also encourage her to work through the process rather than fight it, as a way to get through it more quickly.

But honestly? Your awkward social moment with this friend--should it happen--is something you can mentally prepare for, but it not a reason not to report!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is exactly like this with her older brother, and us parents as well. I bet the crazies on DCUM wouldn’t jump to conclusions in our situation!

1. Probably this child is an extreme sensory seeker.

2. But he should respect others’ wishes regarding personal space, and the parents are squarely responsible for enforcing that.

3. I would not call CPS, but I would tell the parents that it makes everyone uncomfortable, it’s not appropriate, and it’s wise for a young person to understand that no means no. Say it seriously, and they’ll take you seriously.

Statistically and physically speaking, it is very unlikely your younger DD is abusing her older brother unless there are very important facts missing from your post; that is not true in the case OP reports. In your situation, I would still intervene if it got to the level OP describes, but I would feel confident that DS is capable of stopping her himself AND that nothing worse is going on. In the OP's case, it is quite clear that the girl cannot stop her older brother and it is possible that something worse is going on. At the very least, she is getting a TERRIBLE message. Let's say this is all totally innocent sensory seeking from a brother on the spectrum, but she's learned she must go along w/ it and her parents are no help. What happens when an older boy at school behaves similarly for nefarious reasons? I can assure you she will think it's normal and not seek help and that, alone, is a major failure of parenting.

PP you replied to.

I agree that the parents need to teach their son not to invade his sister's personal space and treat her like an object, and that they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself. This is why OP needs to talk with the parents more forcefully. I disagree with the reflex reaction on these boards that a male is de facto a molester. That is why I don't think she should call CPS.

The parents are tolerating a situation and letting it continue when it is happening right in front of them. The people who should be protecting her are not and yes, you said they should teach the ds that he should not invade his sister's space and that is true. However, your language is problematic - putting this in there at all "they need to teach their daughter to speak up and assert herself." She is having to share a bedroom with someone who is using her body for his own amusement, clearly against her wishes. Have your read that kids who are sexually molested shut down when someone touches them inappropriately. They shut down. This girl has shut down because he is grabbing her body and the people who are protecting her have not. I'm not saying she has been molested, but this situation is far beyond what OP can approach with the parents. They are IDIOTS. This kid needs real help, and needs someone trained in interviewing children who have been assaulted to speak with her. Not her dumbass parents.

If I CPS I feel like I would betray my friend. I think she's just naive or in denial.
If I call CPS it will cause a huge problem for them and they will probably have to hire a lawyer.

Let's put this on a scale. On one side, your friendship and your friend (who is an adult) facing a difficult situation. On the other side is a 10 yr old girl who is being openly and publicly having her body grabbed and held without her consent by someone she shares a bedroom with and has no hope of physically resisting. One side is an adult, the other side is a child. One side is a mother, the other side is HER CHILD, who she should be willing to do anything to protect.

This kid is already 13. Their family is not going to be able to undo and reset the dynamic to a healthy place without professional intervention. They don't even see the problem and aren't even looking to reset the dynamic.

Say you keep quiet or just broach it with your friend and nothing changes beyond her dumping you as a friend. In a couple of years, when her dd is cutting herself, what will you think? When her dd tries to commit suicide, will you feel anything?

If you speak up and say what needs to be said, your friend is not going to listen, and she is going to dump you. CPS is this child's only hope.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but I don't have proof that he's raping her. What if I'm mistaken and it's not sexual, just rough housing. This is serious accusations.

Is it ever normal for kids this age to share the room willingly?