Girl Scouts sues Boys Scouts for including girls

[Anonymous]

My daughter is a lot more adventurous and willing to try new things -- especially outdoors things like ropes courses, archery, kayaking -- if she is in an all-girl environment, than if she were with boys and girls. With everyone being girls, she tries new things, accepts a challenge, and learns to push herself. THEN, if she feels confident in her new skill, then she trusts herself and she will be more assertive in this skill in a boy AND girl environment. But I don't think she'd be as willing to try brand new things that she is not sure about and still learning about, in a rowdier, blurt out the answer, wrestle with each other like puppies type of environment. She likes to hide what she doesn't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*rolls eyes* GS was only founded because BS refused to include them.

They should take this as a win and become the Scouts or Scouts of America. GS can give BS some tips on running a better product line and BS can give GS tips on better merit badges.

Because the GS badges seriously suck. Childcare, needlecraft, sewing, and folk dancing, ffs?

hat's a p
Thoto of a sash from the 1980s.

Of course it is. Girls Scout uniforms are now blue.

Daisy’s are blue. I believe Juniors are green still?

[Anonymous]

Girl scouts should allow boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are your girls honestly and truly taking away anything from GS other than that it’s basically an elementary-level sorority? I don’t think my Brownie cares what patches or badges she earns, she just likes going twice a week to be with her friends, and taking the occasional field trip. She is super excited about camping this year though.

The absolute only benefit and difference between the GS and BS that I can tell is becoming an Eagle Scout, and the long term benefits of becoming one. Most GS and BS don’t stick with it that long anyway, so comparing the two at elementary level is pointless. It’s a bunch of kids getting together to essentially socialize, and that’s just fine and a healthy part of development in and of itself. I do wish their were equal incentives for GS to stick with it in middle and high school though. That’s the only benefit of BS that I can think of, of course, if your girl sticks it out for the long haul.

I personally bring my daughter to a lot of other GS things on our own, and do more than just what happens at the meetings. I read the Rallyhood emails and sign her up for all of the additional activities offered. If you just limit yourself to the official meetings, yeah, I can see how people would think this is completely limiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Girl scouts should allow boys.

I see where you are coming from, but no. See 13:22 above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

This was my experience as recently as last year. One cub scout pack covering two elementary schools, one den per grade level. Some dens had two leaders, ours only had one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

All GS troops are part of a regional service unit which, in my experience, is mostly an exercise in bureaucracy. My kid loves girl scouts but honestly, I'm hoping she outgrows it in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From all these comments I'm reading.
So some troops are lead by moms who knows other moms and thus, start a troop?

Maybe the GS leaders should publicized their programs more effectively to attract girls and admit them without having to be a friend with the mom's who's running the troop. Maybe if they get more interesting moms running the troop, then they would focus more on the same thing. It sounds like there are too much variety in the GS troops.
The BS has a set program and they try to follow it as much as possible to get those badges. [i]

That's really one of the fundamental differences between BSA and GSUSA. Girl Scouts offers several different badges and journeys and experience, to help develop girls into strong, independent leaders. The whole idea is to be girl-led and to let each troop, and even each girl, chose the activities and badges that are right for them. It's far less perscriptive than BSA. I, personally, think that's a good thing, but if you want a specific, set curriculum, then that wouldn't be right for you.

And I learned in this thread why GS troops are so much harder to find than BSA troops. I had no idea that BSA didn't have max adult:kids rations and that troops accepted large numbers like that! As a PP said, GS has really strict ratios for registered adults to girls. So girls don't at all have to "be friend with the mom's who's running the troop" but it's true that troops fill up quickly. If more girls want to join, more parents (moms and dads) need to volunteer to run troops. As for finding "more interesting moms" to run the troops... I have no idea how they can evaluate that. I'm a leader and think we do awesome fun things with the kids, but I'm sure for some people what my troop finds interesting wouldn't be what they find interesting. The awesome part of GS is that you can usually find a troop that suits your tastes!

[Anonymous]

I was in GS from 5-18 and DH is an Eagle Scout. We both loved our scouting experience, but both prefer our own. I loved that my troop was 30 girls from my private school (my mom was the head leader and there were 2-3 other leaders). We had the same girls in our troop for over a decade, which was really nice. We voted on activities and did a mix, but the majority were crafting and camping. There were other clubs at school like Model UN, a stock market club, robotics club and Greenpeace that were more specialized if girls wanted to do that. We went to GS camp and the entire troop hated it, so we didn't do that again. Troops are pretty unique in what they do.

DH's troop seemed disorganized (to me- he loved it!) with kids from different schools and ages 8-18. His was more focused on individual accomplishments like Eagle Scout than a big troop experience. He focused on outdoors and survival skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

My troop never interacted with another. We didn't need to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

Yes, all local troops are part of a larger local unit, called a Service Unit. For example, our Troop is troop # ___ and we all belong to Service Unit 51-9, and then these Service Units are part of an Association (Association 51, called "Ashgrove West," which includes Reston, Herndon, Great Falls and parts of Oak Hill in Fairfax County." All of the Associations together make up a Council. Our Council is Council of the Nation's Capital.

So, it goes: troop, service unit, association, council.

Beyond that, I'd like to say that our school personallyhas always historically had a very very very active group of troops. So that is even more unofficial and official support than just beyond the official GS organization. Beginning in kindergarten, each class has at least one if not two troops. These newly-minted mom leaders get support and guidance from the upper grade level moms and leaders. As the girls progress up in grades, they progress in doing more and more challenging things. I really think it's this informal network of moms/leaders which makes the experience great for our troops. The mom leaders can get advice, hints, lessons learned, etc. all from the older and more experienced moms.

When we first joined in kindergarten, I truly thought it would be a dippy experience and we'd do it for a y ear or two, and then move on. But we're still going strong six years later and it just keeps getting better and better.

Did you know there are also international scouting centers? The girls can raise $$ to visit scouting centers in London, Switzerland, Mexico, India, and a few more, I believe. The more I learn, the more I like it, and the better the experience is, and so on and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

My troop never interacted with another. We didn't need to.

When do the girls become leaders and mentor younger scouts? Who do your leaders turn to for more-experienced guidance? Where is there support system for new leaders? Does every troop rebuild the wheel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

Yes, all local troops are part of a larger local unit, called a Service Unit. For example, our Troop is troop # ___ and we all belong to Service Unit 51-9, and then these Service Units are part of an Association (Association 51, called "Ashgrove West," which includes Reston, Herndon, Great Falls and parts of Oak Hill in Fairfax County." All of the Associations together make up a Council. Our Council is Council of the Nation's Capital.

So, it goes: troop, service unit, association, council.

Beyond that, I'd like to say that our school personallyhas always historically had a very very very active group of troops. So that is even more unofficial and official support than just beyond the official GS organization. Beginning in kindergarten, each class has at least one if not two troops. These newly-minted mom leaders get support and guidance from the upper grade level moms and leaders. As the girls progress up in grades, they progress in doing more and more challenging things. I really think it's this informal network of moms/leaders which makes the experience great for our troops. The mom leaders can get advice, hints, lessons learned, etc. all from the older and more experienced moms.

When we first joined in kindergarten, I truly thought it would be a dippy experience and we'd do it for a y ear or two, and then move on. But we're still going strong six years later and it just keeps getting better and better.

Did you know there are also international scouting centers? The girls can raise $$ to visit scouting centers in London, Switzerland, Mexico, India, and a few more, I believe. The more I learn, the more I like it, and the better the experience is, and so on and so forth.

I'm pp - disregard my question, because this summed it up beautifully!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with cub scouts is that families are thrilled to easily find a place for their girls. So many moms I've talked to have declared it's nearly impossible to find a den/troop/whatever they are called in Daisy/GS in our area. If they could even get information about GS at all, in order to have their daughter sign up, it was knowing someone in the troop, or volunteering to start one themselves. With Cub Scouts, all of them walked into an existing Pack and very few needed to volunteer to get their dens up and running within a week or so.

Every system has pros and cons. It's easier to find a den to participate in because there's no size cap on dens -- they have to take everyone from their school/geographic area who wants to join. The rest for many, at least in the early years, can be massive dens that become very chaotic and can overwhelm some kids, especially since BSA doesn't seem to have much in the way of rules about ratios -- our den at its max was 22 boys, with only a single leader (which one time resulted in a handful of boys leaving school grounds into the neighborhood during a den meeting because the den leader couldn't keep track of everyone). GS caps troop sizes at 12 and is strict about ratios so you have to have at least two leaders for every troop; troops can choose to go over the cap, but then have to find another leader. This means it can be harder to find a troop with openings, but the troops themselves are far more manageable in size and have a higher level of supervision.

That may have been your experience years ago, but cub scout packs don't run like that. While there are no official den size limits, most try to stay below 10. (Our Pack's den goal # is 4-8.) Also, every cub scout event requires *trained* 2-deep leadership - so not just a body, but a trained body. So, while I suppose it's possible that our Pack (of 100 boys) can get away with having only 2 leaders available, that's not going to happen. Instead, our pack will likely have 28 trained adults there (2 per our 14 dens), plus parents since packs are family friendly and allow siblings to participate in everything we do. Of course, we only meet in that large group setting once monthly, usually we're meeting in our small dens.

I'm unclear on how GS troops are run - do all your ranks interact with each other, ever, or are they completely independent of one another?

They definitely don't have the pack/den setup that boy scouts seem to have where the boys routinely and consistently do stuff together. There are lots of opportunities to do things among the various levels in Girl Scouts, but it's up to the individual troop to take advantage of that.
As others have said, each troop is in a Service Unit and a larger Council, but that can be limited to the adults/organizational structure if the troop choses not to be involved. For example, our Service Unit (and I think most units) have a spring camping event, with the older girls organizing it and running it and teaching things to the younger girls. But it's not mandatory, and I know some troops in our service unit who have never done it. The service unit also host an international fair, a daddy/daughter bowling event, an archery day, etc. and each troop decides which, if any, of those events to do. So as an individual girl, you could definitely go a whole year without working with anyone outside of your 12 person troop. Or you could do something literally every month with girls all across the age span.