Forced to stand for pledge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think being taught to be respectful is a good thing.
Kids also do all sorts of th8ngs in school they don’t want to. Standing for the pledge is not a big deal.

+1
I'm a teacher and my students stand for the pledge every day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being taught to be respectful is a good thing.
Kids also do all sorts of th8ngs in school they don’t want to. Standing for the pledge is not a big deal.

You don't get to decide if it's a big deal to them or not.

[Anonymous]

Why would you be upset about something so small? Dedication and pride in one's country (native or adopted) should not be an issue. Your kid should stand because it's not about the President, it's about the women and men in the armed forces who serve EACH.AND.EVERY.DAY. so that your kid has certain freedoms. Why can't you and your child have respect for these people? Why are you being so hostile about your child being grateful for the freedoms that he currently has?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would you be upset about something so small? Dedication and pride in one's country (native or adopted) should not be an issue. Your kid should stand because it's not about the President, it's about the women and men in the armed forces who serve EACH.AND.EVERY.DAY. so that your kid has certain freedoms. Why can't you and your child have respect for these people? Why are you being so hostile about your child being grateful for the freedoms that he currently has?

You don't get to decide what it's about for me or for others. It's about soldiers for you? Fine. You want to stand and recite it? Fine.

I. DON'T. HAVE. TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I WISH more schools would require this.

You don't see the irony of forcing someone to stand while they say "with liberty and justice for all"?

NOPE. But I do see the irony of a child refusing to stand in respect to a flag that defends the child's right to be a jerk. Stand.

What does trying to force people to stand do for you?

[Anonymous]

PP, must be the OP whose comprehension is sorely lacking. OP must also be a communist who'd like nothing more than to have people criminalized/ostracized for flag standing. I clearly stated several points:

1. The flag represents respect for one's country made up of diverse women and men who serve everyday.
2. Whether this is your Native or Adopted country, standing for the flag shows respect for the county you are in.
3. The flag in this country represents the freedoms outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Finally, I don't believe this is a big deal. Email the teacher and keep it moving. You really don't need to go to extreme lengths for minor issue.

[Anonymous]

If someone cannot understand that standing is not the same thing as saying the pledge, then that person is the one with the political statement.

There are lots of things we do out of respect for others: go to funerals; stay silent when others are praying during a moment of silence; staying silent while others are completing a test; standing in line rather than barreling to the front; waving a car into the lane in front of you in heavy traffic; etc.etc.

The whole audience stands at the Olympics for the national anthems of the winner's country. Standing while others pledge is the respectful thing to do. Not standing shows disrespect for our country. Standing indicates respect. It does not indicate allegiance. It is really pretty simple.

[Anonymous]

I understand that there are people who are deeply offended by the fact that people choose not to stand during the pledge. I am not one of these people. I stand, recite the pledge and teach my children to do the same. However, I understand that some people choose not to. Not my business. More importantly, I understand that it has been settled law for 70 years that the state (in this case, a public school) can’t compel a child to stand and recite the pledge. That’s what this thread is about and there’s really no room for argument.

For the PPs dismissing the OP’s concern, do you acknowledge that we have the the right to be disrespectful of the flag, of our institutions, even our service members honorable sacrifices as long as our actions are peaceful? You can get upset about the impropriety, but our freedom to disrespect the country that protects these freedoms is a beautiful contradiction of our system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 25 years I've never had a student not stand, but I wouldn't make one stand IF the reason was valid.

OP, did your child explain to the teacher the reason behind the choice?

As an agent of the government (teacher working in a public school) you may not compel political speech. You don't get to decide what reasons are valid because you cannot compel political speech-no exceptions. If you don't understand that I strongly encourage you to take a class in US constitutional history as part of your professional development.

Read number 8. It doesn't sound like one can chose not to say The Pledge "just because".

Code of Virginia, § 22.1-202
Section 22.1-202 of the Code of Virginia addresses instruction in the history and
principles of flags of United States and Virginia, the Pledge of Allegiance to the
American flag, and guidelines to be developed by the Board of Education.* The
section mandates the following:
1. Instruction in the history and principles of the flag of the United States and the
flag of the Commonwealth shall be given in one or more grades in every
school division. The instruction shall include the Pledge of Allegiance and the
appropriate etiquette and conventions for respecting the dignity and
appropriate display of such flags.
2. School boards must require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in
every classroom.
3. All students are required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate
such knowledge.
4. School boards must ensure that an American flag is in place in each
classroom of the respective school division.
5. School boards must determine the appropriate time during the school day for
the recitation of the Pledge.
6. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who
are unable to comply with these procedures due to a disability.
7. School boards must apply their codes of conduct to disruptive behavior during
the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other
circumstances of similar behavior.
8. Students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with
their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform. No
student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal
guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 25 years I've never had a student not stand, but I wouldn't make one stand IF the reason was valid.

OP, did your child explain to the teacher the reason behind the choice?

As an agent of the government (teacher working in a public school) you may not compel political speech. You don't get to decide what reasons are valid because you cannot compel political speech-no exceptions. If you don't understand that I strongly encourage you to take a class in US constitutional history as part of your professional development.

Read number 8. It doesn't sound like one can chose not to say The Pledge "just because".

Code of Virginia, § 22.1-202
Section 22.1-202 of the Code of Virginia addresses instruction in the history and
principles of flags of United States and Virginia, the Pledge of Allegiance to the
American flag, and guidelines to be developed by the Board of Education.* The
section mandates the following:
1. Instruction in the history and principles of the flag of the United States and the
flag of the Commonwealth shall be given in one or more grades in every
school division. The instruction shall include the Pledge of Allegiance and the
appropriate etiquette and conventions for respecting the dignity and
appropriate display of such flags.
2. School boards must require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in
every classroom.
3. All students are required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate
such knowledge.
4. School boards must ensure that an American flag is in place in each
classroom of the respective school division.
5. School boards must determine the appropriate time during the school day for
the recitation of the Pledge.
6. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who
are unable to comply with these procedures due to a disability.
7. School boards must apply their codes of conduct to disruptive behavior during
the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other
circumstances of similar behavior.
8. Students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with
their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform. No
student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal
guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds.

objecting on philosophical or other grounds covers "just because".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If someone cannot understand that standing is not the same thing as saying the pledge, then that person is the one with the political statement.

There are lots of things we do out of respect for others: go to funerals; stay silent when others are praying during a moment of silence; staying silent while others are completing a test; standing in line rather than barreling to the front; waving a car into the lane in front of you in heavy traffic; etc.etc.

The whole audience stands at the Olympics for the national anthems of the winner's country. Standing while others pledge is the respectful thing to do. Not standing shows disrespect for our country. Standing indicates respect. It does not indicate allegiance. It is really pretty simple.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 25 years I've never had a student not stand, but I wouldn't make one stand IF the reason was valid.

OP, did your child explain to the teacher the reason behind the choice?

As an agent of the government (teacher working in a public school) you may not compel political speech. You don't get to decide what reasons are valid because you cannot compel political speech-no exceptions. If you don't understand that I strongly encourage you to take a class in US constitutional history as part of your professional development.

Read number 8. It doesn't sound like one can chose not to say The Pledge "just because".

Code of Virginia, § 22.1-202
Section 22.1-202 of the Code of Virginia addresses instruction in the history and
principles of flags of United States and Virginia, the Pledge of Allegiance to the
American flag, and guidelines to be developed by the Board of Education.* The
section mandates the following:
1. Instruction in the history and principles of the flag of the United States and the
flag of the Commonwealth shall be given in one or more grades in every
school division. The instruction shall include the Pledge of Allegiance and the
appropriate etiquette and conventions for respecting the dignity and
appropriate display of such flags.
2. School boards must require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in
every classroom.
3. All students are required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate
such knowledge.
4. School boards must ensure that an American flag is in place in each
classroom of the respective school division.
5. School boards must determine the appropriate time during the school day for
the recitation of the Pledge.
6. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who
are unable to comply with these procedures due to a disability.
7. School boards must apply their codes of conduct to disruptive behavior during
the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other
circumstances of similar behavior.
8. Students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with
their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform. No
student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal
guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds.

“Or other grounds”. The statutory equivalent of “just because”. Also, without the opt-out clause, this statute would be unconstitutional as a result of the Supreme Court decision that has been cited multiple times in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Well, it looks like the student can object on "other grounds," so that seems to cover a lot of territory there.

I guess you have to object to doing it, not just forget to stand up.

[Anonymous]

There's nothing that says a student cannot stand. A student can refuse to recite the pledge based on philosophical, religious grounds, etc. but it sounds like they can still be compelled to stand out of respect. As people have noted earlier people stand for various reasons including weddings, Olympic gatherings, judges entering a room, Kings/Queens/Presidents, CEO's. The OP has nothing better to do other than cause drama and waste time/resources on non-issues. OP also sounds like a hateful and spiteful person who's raising her kid to be the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that there are people who are deeply offended by the fact that people choose not to stand during the pledge. I am not one of these people. I stand, recite the pledge and teach my children to do the same. However, I understand that some people choose not to. Not my business. More importantly, I understand that it has been settled law for 70 years that the state (in this case, a public school) can’t compel a child to stand and recite the pledge. That’s what this thread is about and there’s really no room for argument.

For the PPs dismissing the OP’s concern, do you acknowledge that we have the the right to be disrespectful of the flag, of our institutions, even our service members honorable sacrifices as long as our actions are peaceful? You can get upset about the impropriety, but our freedom to disrespect the country that protects these freedoms is a beautiful contradiction of our system.

Well said.