FCPS Ready to Screw Poorer/GenEd Kids Again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school board needs to be appointed by the BOS not elected. It used to be that way.

With elected members, the school board is only interested in meeting the needs of voters in their districts rather than what’s best for FCPS as a whole.

What are Dalia Palchik's and Pat Hynes' positions on this? They do not deserve the endorsement of the FCDC in 2019 unless they take a stand. And Sean Perryman and the NAACP Education Committee should be all over them as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't use "ain't" in speaking to poor people. I used it to speak to people too dumb to understand or admit that Poe has never been in the official proposals and will not suddenly be inserted into the decision process. The board isn't going to drop all the proposals and the recommendation that is set for final approval in 10 days. This ship has sailed and Poe isn't and never was on the ship.

There hasn't been a vote, so the ship hasn't sailed yet, although you're obviously paddling away from Jackson as fast as you can.

If they aren't total hypocrites, they need to hit the reset button.

I don't need to "paddle away from Jackson" b/c my kids can go to Thoreau. So, really, it's just a benefit to my family if you get your way... the whole rezoning process gets scrapped next week. Jackson kids live with 19+ trailers for another year. Thoreau kids continue to enjoy their nice, big, roomy, new facility for at least another year -- maybe several years. Works for me! You can spend the next year bickering about which group of Jackson's poorer kids to off-load onto Poe. Ultimately, the kids already zoned for Poe will be in a school that is even more "needy" (higher than the current 75% FARMS rate). yep...We'll be fine over here at Thoreau where the FARMS rate is ... oh let's see.... 10%!

Enjoy the pushing and shoving again next year at Jackson!

If you have so many great ideas, OP, and you feel so strongly about what should happen, why didn't you speak up last week when the school board was taking community input? I know you didn't speak up b/c I watched all TWO people comment from the community. One was supporting the move (from Oakton ES) and the other was asking to keep Mosby in LJMS (a Mosby Parent). No -- you didn't show up to speak. You didn't submit a video comment. You just like to moan and complain on DCUM. Well, just keep at it. School board will be voting next week. There is only one recommended plan on the table. It does not involve Poe.

I feel the same way as OP, however I don't live in boundary and so didn't speak up at a hearing. I have spoken up to a couple of people offline though. I can just see how their decision will be very similar to what happened with Annandale. I will just have to hope the school board will make good decisions and I will vote for or against them in the future based on how they vote. IMO though, the Jackson parents should have been the ones to speak up. However they probably don't want to go to Poe, so they have reason also to not speak up. It's a double edge sword whether they do or don't speak up and so FCPS knows they won't get much opposition and yet everyone watching from the sidelines can see what is happening.

What are you even talking about? There is no proposal to shift Jackson kids to Poe so why would any parent speak about it? You can't go to a seminar on space travel and want to discuss burgers. Just sayin..

They should have spoken up. Who cares what FCPS originally proposed if it wasn't a good idea? They only asked the parents coming into Thoreau their opinion and stopped short of asking the families who would be staying at Jackson and Falls Church.

There were four community input meetings (two in June, two in Nov/Dec 2017). If OP wanted to make a case, s/he had at least a year to do it. It has been known for a long time that Jackson was over-crowded and that Thoreau was undergoing renovation (which finished in Aug. 2016). Such a significant plan (involving at least three, and possibly 4, middle schools) needed to be suggested when Jackson got the first 15 trailers... not a couple of weeks (or even months) before out very slow school board is ready to make a decision.

To be fair though, imo, FCPS always had this rezoning plan set.... the community meetings seemed like theater to me. They were just going through the procedures for the plan that they had already decided was the best plan. (Look at the map. The current rezoning plan makes 100% sense if you aren't considering the things OP wants the school board to consider. If you are just looking at keeping communities together and logistics, it makes sense to lop off the western wing of the Jackson boundary.)

Do we want our government (school board) to make decisions without regard to race and economic status? Or do we want our school board to make zoning decisions based on race and economic status with a goal of equalizing the populations of public schools (social engineering)? That seems to be the crux of OP's issue. If the school board did rezone the eastern LJMS feeders instead of the western feeder schools, it would look like a gerrymandered school boundary on the map.... because, in fact, it would be a gerrymandered school zone.

The school board and facilities was asked by others to do more studies on what would happen to Falls Church High and Jackson Middle in the future and do some projections on FARM students and they were asked to do this almost a year ago. They just chose not to or at least not to share that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't use "ain't" in speaking to poor people. I used it to speak to people too dumb to understand or admit that Poe has never been in the official proposals and will not suddenly be inserted into the decision process. The board isn't going to drop all the proposals and the recommendation that is set for final approval in 10 days. This ship has sailed and Poe isn't and never was on the ship.

There hasn't been a vote, so the ship hasn't sailed yet, although you're obviously paddling away from Jackson as fast as you can.

If they aren't total hypocrites, they need to hit the reset button.

I don't need to "paddle away from Jackson" b/c my kids can go to Thoreau. So, really, it's just a benefit to my family if you get your way... the whole rezoning process gets scrapped next week. Jackson kids live with 19+ trailers for another year. Thoreau kids continue to enjoy their nice, big, roomy, new facility for at least another year -- maybe several years. Works for me! You can spend the next year bickering about which group of Jackson's poorer kids to off-load onto Poe. Ultimately, the kids already zoned for Poe will be in a school that is even more "needy" (higher than the current 75% FARMS rate). yep...We'll be fine over here at Thoreau where the FARMS rate is ... oh let's see.... 10%!

Enjoy the pushing and shoving again next year at Jackson!

If you have so many great ideas, OP, and you feel so strongly about what should happen, why didn't you speak up last week when the school board was taking community input? I know you didn't speak up b/c I watched all TWO people comment from the community. One was supporting the move (from Oakton ES) and the other was asking to keep Mosby in LJMS (a Mosby Parent). No -- you didn't show up to speak. You didn't submit a video comment. You just like to moan and complain on DCUM. Well, just keep at it. School board will be voting next week. There is only one recommended plan on the table. It does not involve Poe.

I feel the same way as OP, however I don't live in boundary and so didn't speak up at a hearing. I have spoken up to a couple of people offline though. I can just see how their decision will be very similar to what happened with Annandale. I will just have to hope the school board will make good decisions and I will vote for or against them in the future based on how they vote. IMO though, the Jackson parents should have been the ones to speak up. However they probably don't want to go to Poe, so they have reason also to not speak up. It's a double edge sword whether they do or don't speak up and so FCPS knows they won't get much opposition and yet everyone watching from the sidelines can see what is happening.

What are you even talking about? There is no proposal to shift Jackson kids to Poe so why would any parent speak about it? You can't go to a seminar on space travel and want to discuss burgers. Just sayin..

They should have spoken up. Who cares what FCPS originally proposed if it wasn't a good idea? They only asked the parents coming into Thoreau their opinion and stopped short of asking the families who would be staying at Jackson and Falls Church.

There were four community input meetings (two in June, two in Nov/Dec 2017). If OP wanted to make a case, s/he had at least a year to do it. It has been known for a long time that Jackson was over-crowded and that Thoreau was undergoing renovation (which finished in Aug. 2016). Such a significant plan (involving at least three, and possibly 4, middle schools) needed to be suggested when Jackson got the first 15 trailers... not a couple of weeks (or even months) before out very slow school board is ready to make a decision.

To be fair though, imo, FCPS always had this rezoning plan set.... the community meetings seemed like theater to me. They were just going through the procedures for the plan that they had already decided was the best plan. (Look at the map. The current rezoning plan makes 100% sense if you aren't considering the things OP wants the school board to consider. If you are just looking at keeping communities together and logistics, it makes sense to lop off the western wing of the Jackson boundary.)

Do we want our government (school board) to make decisions without regard to race and economic status? Or do we want our school board to make zoning decisions based on race and economic status with a goal of equalizing the populations of public schools (social engineering)? That seems to be the crux of OP's issue. If the school board did rezone the eastern LJMS feeders instead of the western feeder schools, it would look like a gerrymandered school boundary on the map.... because, in fact, it would be a gerrymandered school zone.

The school board and facilities was asked by others to do more studies on what would happen to Falls Church High and Jackson Middle in the future and do some projections on FARM students and they were asked to do this almost a year ago. They just chose not to or at least not to share that data.

There's no excuse for them not to share the data in the context of a boundary change. APS and MCPS always provide such data, and FCPS has done so in the past.

Of course, they might be reluctant to do so because their projections often were off, and they underestimated what happens to enrollments and ESOL/FARMS percentages once they start moving higher-income kids out of schools that are already near a tipping point.

[Anonymous]

Did I read that the proposal would leave Thoreau feeding into three different high schools? That's ridiculous and obvious pandering to Oakton/Vienna parents.

If anything, Madison's boundaries should be aligned with Thoreau's and then everyone from Thoreau could go to Madison.

[Anonymous]

Jackson has the AAP center -- isn't that going to keep the scores high (enough)? Giving the kids at LJMS more space asap has to be a good thing (be they poor or not poor kids). Relieving the crowding has to have a positive effect, especially when they have the center.

How can you be so sure that losing this group of kids (MWES, part of OES, and a bit of MRES) will have a negative impact on the base school of LJMS? Are most of the wealthier kids in this group already separated into the AAP center?

Re: aligning Thoreau's boundaries with Madison -- well, almost everyone going to Madison comes from Thoreau (except a few from Kilmer and any AAP kids in Madison's zone who want to go to the center at Jackson). The problem is that some elementary schools feed to both Madison and Oakton (i.e. Oakton ES and Marshall Rd. ES). By keeping those kids together from elem school to middle school, they don't have to break friendships heading into MS where the pool is a much bigger group and it can be hard to make friends if you do not have your elem. school posse with you (trust me, I know -- we move our DD going into 7th grade.... it was hard to show up day one and not have her ES friends to manage the transition).

The other problem is that keeping Thoreau for only those kids who go to Madison means that Thoreau continues to be under capacity... which is not a good use of resources for a newly renovated school that has capacity. Some 350 kids are needed to move into the new improved Thoreau.

To be sure, some kids at Jackson have had a very good experience. Other kids, I've heard, have had such an unhappy 7th grade there that they want to switch schools next year if they can. That's kind of telling -- kids would switch schools in the middle of a two year program. I don't think these kids are in AAP... so that already speaks to the atmosphere in gen. ed. even with the OES/MWES/MRES kids still in Jackson. Decreasing the crowding asap has to be a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jackson has the AAP center -- isn't that going to keep the scores high (enough)? Giving the kids at LJMS more space asap has to be a good thing (be they poor or not poor kids). Relieving the crowding has to have a positive effect, especially when they have the center.

How can you be so sure that losing this group of kids (MWES, part of OES, and a bit of MRES) will have a negative impact on the base school of LJMS? Are most of the wealthier kids in this group already separated into the AAP center?

Re: aligning Thoreau's boundaries with Madison -- well, almost everyone going to Madison comes from Thoreau (except a few from Kilmer and any AAP kids in Madison's zone who want to go to the center at Jackson). The problem is that some elementary schools feed to both Madison and Oakton (i.e. Oakton ES and Marshall Rd. ES). By keeping those kids together from elem school to middle school, they don't have to break friendships heading into MS where the pool is a much bigger group and it can be hard to make friends if you do not have your elem. school posse with you (trust me, I know -- we move our DD going into 7th grade.... it was hard to show up day one and not have her ES friends to manage the transition).

The other problem is that keeping Thoreau for only those kids who go to Madison means that Thoreau continues to be under capacity... which is not a good use of resources for a newly renovated school that has capacity. Some 350 kids are needed to move into the new improved Thoreau.

To be sure, some kids at Jackson have had a very good experience. Other kids, I've heard, have had such an unhappy 7th grade there that they want to switch schools next year if they can. That's kind of telling -- kids would switch schools in the middle of a two year program. I don't think these kids are in AAP... so that already speaks to the atmosphere in gen. ed. even with the OES/MWES/MRES kids still in Jackson. Decreasing the crowding asap has to be a good thing.

There are already a significant number of LLIV-eligible students at Thoreau who stay there, rather than at Jackson. This trend will only continue if these kids are moved to Thoreau.

The enrollments at both Thoreau and Madison are increasing, without a boundary change. Thoreau's is up by about 115 kids over the past five years alone. Kilmer/Madison students can move to Thoreau if FCPS wants to fill additional seats more quickly.

And you don't solve one purported problem (elementary schools that split to two middle schools) by turning Thoreau into a three-way split feeder to three different high schools.

As for your last point, there are other ways to reduce the enrollment at Jackson besides moving kids from its most affluent feeders to Thoreau. If it takes another year to get it right, FCPS should take the extra time. It obviously has no problem leaving schools like Poe, Key, Lee and Mount Vernon well under capacity for extended periods. There is no law that says Thoreau has to be at full capacity this fall.

You don't solve one problem (elementary school split feeders) by creating a three-way split feeder in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Thoreau is emphasizing its LLIV program to rising students.

https://thoreaums.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/med...tion%20Invitation%202018_0.pdf

[Anonymous]

If that link does not work, try the link on this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/703508.page

[Anonymous]

Quite the opposite...AAP at TMS seems to be a very well kept secret. The AAP discussion wasn't listed on the flyer they put out. Kids and parents at TMS never hear of AAP and many think TMS doesn't gave AAP.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it was listed on the Kilmer flyer either. They probably just sent it out to some parents or just had it on their website instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quite the opposite...AAP at TMS seems to be a very well kept secret. The AAP discussion wasn't listed on the flyer they put out. Kids and parents at TMS never hear of AAP and many think TMS doesn't gave AAP.

I'll go way out on a limb and assume parents know what "Community Based Local Level IV Advanced Academics" means.

[Anonymous]

When is the vote on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When is the vote on this?

It was presented as new business, but no follow-up work session or vote has yet been scheduled. Time will tell what to make of the failure to act promptly on the staff recommendation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't use "ain't" in speaking to poor people. I used it to speak to people too dumb to understand or admit that Poe has never been in the official proposals and will not suddenly be inserted into the decision process. The board isn't going to drop all the proposals and the recommendation that is set for final approval in 10 days. This ship has sailed and Poe isn't and never was on the ship.

There hasn't been a vote, so the ship hasn't sailed yet, although you're obviously paddling away from Jackson as fast as you can.

If they aren't total hypocrites, they need to hit the reset button.

I don't need to "paddle away from Jackson" b/c my kids can go to Thoreau. So, really, it's just a benefit to my family if you get your way... the whole rezoning process gets scrapped next week. Jackson kids live with 19+ trailers for another year. Thoreau kids continue to enjoy their nice, big, roomy, new facility for at least another year -- maybe several years. Works for me! You can spend the next year bickering about which group of Jackson's poorer kids to off-load onto Poe. Ultimately, the kids already zoned for Poe will be in a school that is even more "needy" (higher than the current 75% FARMS rate). yep...We'll be fine over here at Thoreau where the FARMS rate is ... oh let's see.... 10%!

Enjoy the pushing and shoving again next year at Jackson!

If you have so many great ideas, OP, and you feel so strongly about what should happen, why didn't you speak up last week when the school board was taking community input? I know you didn't speak up b/c I watched all TWO people comment from the community. One was supporting the move (from Oakton ES) and the other was asking to keep Mosby in LJMS (a Mosby Parent). No -- you didn't show up to speak. You didn't submit a video comment. You just like to moan and complain on DCUM. Well, just keep at it. School board will be voting next week. There is only one recommended plan on the table. It does not involve Poe.

Moving some or all of Camelot and/or Woodburn from Jackson to Poe would reduce the FARMS rate at Poe, and quite possibly at Jackson as well.

While relieving the overcrowding at Jackson, it would also show that the School Board actually cares about equity, and taking steps to balance, where possible, student demographics, rather than catering to loudmouths like you and isolating the poor kids in certain middle schools like Poe, Key, and Whitman.

You really don't know enough here to be commenting sensibly, so I suggest you shut up.

That makes no sense. Wakefield is on the boundary and would make mores sense to move if the goal is to reduce the FARMS rate at Poe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't use "ain't" in speaking to poor people. I used it to speak to people too dumb to understand or admit that Poe has never been in the official proposals and will not suddenly be inserted into the decision process. The board isn't going to drop all the proposals and the recommendation that is set for final approval in 10 days. This ship has sailed and Poe isn't and never was on the ship.

There hasn't been a vote, so the ship hasn't sailed yet, although you're obviously paddling away from Jackson as fast as you can.

If they aren't total hypocrites, they need to hit the reset button.

I don't need to "paddle away from Jackson" b/c my kids can go to Thoreau. So, really, it's just a benefit to my family if you get your way... the whole rezoning process gets scrapped next week. Jackson kids live with 19+ trailers for another year. Thoreau kids continue to enjoy their nice, big, roomy, new facility for at least another year -- maybe several years. Works for me! You can spend the next year bickering about which group of Jackson's poorer kids to off-load onto Poe. Ultimately, the kids already zoned for Poe will be in a school that is even more "needy" (higher than the current 75% FARMS rate). yep...We'll be fine over here at Thoreau where the FARMS rate is ... oh let's see.... 10%!

Enjoy the pushing and shoving again next year at Jackson!

If you have so many great ideas, OP, and you feel so strongly about what should happen, why didn't you speak up last week when the school board was taking community input? I know you didn't speak up b/c I watched all TWO people comment from the community. One was supporting the move (from Oakton ES) and the other was asking to keep Mosby in LJMS (a Mosby Parent). No -- you didn't show up to speak. You didn't submit a video comment. You just like to moan and complain on DCUM. Well, just keep at it. School board will be voting next week. There is only one recommended plan on the table. It does not involve Poe.

Moving some or all of Camelot and/or Woodburn from Jackson to Poe would reduce the FARMS rate at Poe, and quite possibly at Jackson as well.

While relieving the overcrowding at Jackson, it would also show that the School Board actually cares about equity, and taking steps to balance, where possible, student demographics, rather than catering to loudmouths like you and isolating the poor kids in certain middle schools like Poe, Key, and Whitman.

You really don't know enough here to be commenting sensibly, so I suggest you shut up.

That makes no sense. Wakefield is on the boundary and would make mores sense to move if the goal is to reduce the FARMS rate at Poe.

Wakefield goes to Frost so the alertnative presented makes sense if one is trying to relieve overcrowding at Jackson and increase the enrollment at Poe, the school that actually has the most excess capacity.