Is it too early to talk about The Last Jedi (spoilers)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed the movie but it was far from perfect. Carrie Fisher's passing gave the movie a little more gravity than what it would have had otherwise.

It was kind of a weird ending with no real clues to what will happen in the next installment or even what we might have to look forward to. I like the theme that the existence of the Resistence gives people/children hope. But the rebels have been nearly destroyed that it seems like some large group will need to come out of nowhere to help rebuild.

I did think it was cool how the scene with Ray, Ben/Kylo Ren, Snoke so clearly paralleled the scene with Luke, Vader, and the Emppero

"We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love."

Rey won't be able to destroy Kylo Ren for the part of him she hates, she'll try to save him for the part of him she loves.

This is so gross. This is the message we want to send to our daughters? Yes, he's a genocidal maniac, but your love can save him! Yuck.

And no, Luke and Vader are not the same. A familial connection is one thing, but a romance-- no. The trope of a good woman saving the angry and broken man needs to die. It's damaging.

The entire Star Wars saga is about redemption. If you can't see any room for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, you don't understand Star Wars at all.

One further thought, don't forget that they had talked about how Episode IX was going to be Leia's movie, and it's possible that Leia, and not Rey, was originally intended to be the source of Kylo's redemption. Parent-child relationships are also a prominent theme of Star Wars, and this would flip the Luke/Vader redemption story on its head. But now that Carrie Fisher has passed and there will be no more Leia, the only surviving character with a relationship with Kylo that could possibly lead to his redemption is Rey.

How about Kylo saves his own damn self?

I'm not sure why redemption means that he gets the girl.

Let's say Darth Vader didn't die at the end of Return of the Jedi. He's "redeemed" so he doesn't face any consequences? He just gets to be Dad and live in Han and Leia's basement? I don't think so.

Sorry, but a romance between Kylo and Rey is really, really gross.

No man is an island. Remember the Force, an energy that binds all together all living things? It's a key part of Star Wars that we are all bound to each other, and it's those connections that bring light into the universe. After all, every time we see someone decide to go it alone, that's when they find themselves tempted by or succumbing to the Dark Side. And no one comes back from the Dark Side alone, they come back to it through their connections to other people. In RotJ, when Luke was on the brink of turning during his battle with Vader, and it was seeing Vader's severed hand and the reminder it was of Vader's humanity, Luke's humanity via his own severed hand, and the common bond between them as father and son that brought him back from the Dark Side.

So if Kylo is going to be redeemed, it will be via his connections to other people who don't see him as irredeemable. Han and Luke are dead, Leia (however they resolve her story) won't be there, the only other character he has a connection to is Rey. So it has to be her. I don't know what other possibility you see that wouldn't violate the essence of Star Wars.

+1 I agree, and think it's bizarre people are reading sexual tension into their relationship. It's an emotional connection, nothing sexual about it. Still pretty convinced they're twins, too much mirroring of Luke and Leia. Though I haven't been able to figure out why her birth was concealed and Ben's was not. Maybe related to some prophecy yet to be revealed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed the movie but it was far from perfect. Carrie Fisher's passing gave the movie a little more gravity than what it would have had otherwise.

It was kind of a weird ending with no real clues to what will happen in the next installment or even what we might have to look forward to. I like the theme that the existence of the Resistence gives people/children hope. But the rebels have been nearly destroyed that it seems like some large group will need to come out of nowhere to help rebuild.

I did think it was cool how the scene with Ray, Ben/Kylo Ren, Snoke so clearly paralleled the scene with Luke, Vader, and the Emppero

"We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love."

Rey won't be able to destroy Kylo Ren for the part of him she hates, she'll try to save him for the part of him she loves.

This is so gross. This is the message we want to send to our daughters? Yes, he's a genocidal maniac, but your love can save him! Yuck.

And no, Luke and Vader are not the same. A familial connection is one thing, but a romance-- no. The trope of a good woman saving the angry and broken man needs to die. It's damaging.

The entire Star Wars saga is about redemption. If you can't see any room for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, you don't understand Star Wars at all.

One further thought, don't forget that they had talked about how Episode IX was going to be Leia's movie, and it's possible that Leia, and not Rey, was originally intended to be the source of Kylo's redemption. Parent-child relationships are also a prominent theme of Star Wars, and this would flip the Luke/Vader redemption story on its head. But now that Carrie Fisher has passed and there will be no more Leia, the only surviving character with a relationship with Kylo that could possibly lead to his redemption is Rey.

How about Kylo saves his own damn self?

I'm not sure why redemption means that he gets the girl.

Let's say Darth Vader didn't die at the end of Return of the Jedi. He's "redeemed" so he doesn't face any consequences? He just gets to be Dad and live in Han and Leia's basement? I don't think so.

Sorry, but a romance between Kylo and Rey is really, really gross.

No man is an island. Remember the Force, an energy that binds all together all living things? It's a key part of Star Wars that we are all bound to each other, and it's those connections that bring light into the universe. After all, every time we see someone decide to go it alone, that's when they find themselves tempted by or succumbing to the Dark Side. And no one comes back from the Dark Side alone, they come back to it through their connections to other people. In RotJ, when Luke was on the brink of turning during his battle with Vader, and it was seeing Vader's severed hand and the reminder it was of Vader's humanity, Luke's humanity via his own severed hand, and the common bond between them as father and son that brought him back from the Dark Side.

So if Kylo is going to be redeemed, it will be via his connections to other people who don't see him as irredeemable. Han and Luke are dead, Leia (however they resolve her story) won't be there, the only other character he has a connection to is Rey. So it has to be her. I don't know what other possibility you see that wouldn't violate the essence of Star Wars.

+1 I agree, and think it's bizarre people are reading sexual tension into their relationship. It's an emotional connection, nothing sexual about it. Still pretty convinced they're twins, too much mirroring of Luke and Leia. Though I haven't been able to figure out why her birth was concealed and Ben's was not. Maybe related to some prophecy yet to be revealed.

+2. I also did not read sexual tension into their connection, and viewed them as twins separated at birth (or at least singleton sibs close in age). It seems pretty much everyone who has had a connection through the Force--Luke and Leia, Vader and Luke, Leia and Kylo, etc.--were relatives, so my hunch is that this will be the case here too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids did not like it. Long and boring.

This adult thought the same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed the movie but it was far from perfect. Carrie Fisher's passing gave the movie a little more gravity than what it would have had otherwise.

It was kind of a weird ending with no real clues to what will happen in the next installment or even what we might have to look forward to. I like the theme that the existence of the Resistence gives people/children hope. But the rebels have been nearly destroyed that it seems like some large group will need to come out of nowhere to help rebuild.

I did think it was cool how the scene with Ray, Ben/Kylo Ren, Snoke so clearly paralleled the scene with Luke, Vader, and the Emppero

"We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love."

Rey won't be able to destroy Kylo Ren for the part of him she hates, she'll try to save him for the part of him she loves.

This is so gross. This is the message we want to send to our daughters? Yes, he's a genocidal maniac, but your love can save him! Yuck.

And no, Luke and Vader are not the same. A familial connection is one thing, but a romance-- no. The trope of a good woman saving the angry and broken man needs to die. It's damaging.

The entire Star Wars saga is about redemption. If you can't see any room for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, you don't understand Star Wars at all.

One further thought, don't forget that they had talked about how Episode IX was going to be Leia's movie, and it's possible that Leia, and not Rey, was originally intended to be the source of Kylo's redemption. Parent-child relationships are also a prominent theme of Star Wars, and this would flip the Luke/Vader redemption story on its head. But now that Carrie Fisher has passed and there will be no more Leia, the only surviving character with a relationship with Kylo that could possibly lead to his redemption is Rey.

How about Kylo saves his own damn self?

I'm not sure why redemption means that he gets the girl.

Let's say Darth Vader didn't die at the end of Return of the Jedi. He's "redeemed" so he doesn't face any consequences? He just gets to be Dad and live in Han and Leia's basement? I don't think so.

Sorry, but a romance between Kylo and Rey is really, really gross.

No man is an island. Remember the Force, an energy that binds all together all living things? It's a key part of Star Wars that we are all bound to each other, and it's those connections that bring light into the universe. After all, every time we see someone decide to go it alone, that's when they find themselves tempted by or succumbing to the Dark Side. And no one comes back from the Dark Side alone, they come back to it through their connections to other people. In RotJ, when Luke was on the brink of turning during his battle with Vader, and it was seeing Vader's severed hand and the reminder it was of Vader's humanity, Luke's humanity via his own severed hand, and the common bond between them as father and son that brought him back from the Dark Side.

So if Kylo is going to be redeemed, it will be via his connections to other people who don't see him as irredeemable. Han and Luke are dead, Leia (however they resolve her story) won't be there, the only other character he has a connection to is Rey. So it has to be her. I don't know what other possibility you see that wouldn't violate the essence of Star Wars.

+1 I agree, and think it's bizarre people are reading sexual tension into their relationship. It's an emotional connection, nothing sexual about it. Still pretty convinced they're twins, too much mirroring of Luke and Leia. Though I haven't been able to figure out why her birth was concealed and Ben's was not. Maybe related to some prophecy yet to be revealed.

+2. I also did not read sexual tension into their connection, and viewed them as twins separated at birth (or at least singleton sibs close in age). It seems pretty much everyone who has had a connection through the Force--Luke and Leia, Vader and Luke, Leia and Kylo, etc.--were relatives, so my hunch is that this will be the case here too.

I think it's emotional but also an attraction. He wanted her to be by his side. He wasn't asking in a completely non-platonic way. There's also an interview with Mark Hamill where he states they have a romantic connection and something like "the girl always wants the bad boy."
Rian Johnson stated that Kylo Ren wasn't lying when he said her parents were nobidies, but doesn't know if JJ will follow suite in Episode 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed the movie but it was far from perfect. Carrie Fisher's passing gave the movie a little more gravity than what it would have had otherwise.

It was kind of a weird ending with no real clues to what will happen in the next installment or even what we might have to look forward to. I like the theme that the existence of the Resistence gives people/children hope. But the rebels have been nearly destroyed that it seems like some large group will need to come out of nowhere to help rebuild.

I did think it was cool how the scene with Ray, Ben/Kylo Ren, Snoke so clearly paralleled the scene with Luke, Vader, and the Emppero

"We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love."

Rey won't be able to destroy Kylo Ren for the part of him she hates, she'll try to save him for the part of him she loves.

This is so gross. This is the message we want to send to our daughters? Yes, he's a genocidal maniac, but your love can save him! Yuck.

And no, Luke and Vader are not the same. A familial connection is one thing, but a romance-- no. The trope of a good woman saving the angry and broken man needs to die. It's damaging.

The entire Star Wars saga is about redemption. If you can't see any room for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, you don't understand Star Wars at all.

One further thought, don't forget that they had talked about how Episode IX was going to be Leia's movie, and it's possible that Leia, and not Rey, was originally intended to be the source of Kylo's redemption. Parent-child relationships are also a prominent theme of Star Wars, and this would flip the Luke/Vader redemption story on its head. But now that Carrie Fisher has passed and there will be no more Leia, the only surviving character with a relationship with Kylo that could possibly lead to his redemption is Rey.

How about Kylo saves his own damn self?

I'm not sure why redemption means that he gets the girl.

Let's say Darth Vader didn't die at the end of Return of the Jedi. He's "redeemed" so he doesn't face any consequences? He just gets to be Dad and live in Han and Leia's basement? I don't think so.

Sorry, but a romance between Kylo and Rey is really, really gross.

No man is an island. Remember the Force, an energy that binds all together all living things? It's a key part of Star Wars that we are all bound to each other, and it's those connections that bring light into the universe. After all, every time we see someone decide to go it alone, that's when they find themselves tempted by or succumbing to the Dark Side. And no one comes back from the Dark Side alone, they come back to it through their connections to other people. In RotJ, when Luke was on the brink of turning during his battle with Vader, and it was seeing Vader's severed hand and the reminder it was of Vader's humanity, Luke's humanity via his own severed hand, and the common bond between them as father and son that brought him back from the Dark Side.

So if Kylo is going to be redeemed, it will be via his connections to other people who don't see him as irredeemable. Han and Luke are dead, Leia (however they resolve her story) won't be there, the only other character he has a connection to is Rey. So it has to be her. I don't know what other possibility you see that wouldn't violate the essence of Star Wars.

+1 I agree, and think it's bizarre people are reading sexual tension into their relationship. It's an emotional connection, nothing sexual about it. Still pretty convinced they're twins, too much mirroring of Luke and Leia. Though I haven't been able to figure out why her birth was concealed and Ben's was not. Maybe related to some prophecy yet to be revealed.

+2. I also did not read sexual tension into their connection, and viewed them as twins separated at birth (or at least singleton sibs close in age). It seems pretty much everyone who has had a connection through the Force--Luke and Leia, Vader and Luke, Leia and Kylo, etc.--were relatives, so my hunch is that this will be the case here too.

I think it's emotional but also an attraction. He wanted her to be by his side. He wasn't asking in a completely non-platonic way. There's also an interview with Mark Hamill where he states they have a romantic connection and something like "the girl always wants the bad boy."
Rian Johnson stated that Kylo Ren wasn't lying when he said her parents were nobidies, but doesn't know if JJ will follow suite in Episode 9.

PP again - when the boy at the end moved the broom using the Force, it's showing us that you don't need to come from special parents or bloodlines to have it, you can be from "nobodies."

[Anonymous]

You never needed special blood lines to be force user or sensitive. In fact kids were taken from parents and trained to use the force. Given that jedi order was pretty much a monk order they rarely had kids.so, that is nothing new. With skywalkers Anakin broke that rule hence the skywalkers bloodline.

[Anonymous]

watched it today at work.....Meh....

all movies are an attempt at a money grab, and sequels are a gratuitous attempt at a money grab, but from a movie quality POV they went to the star wars well about 4 times too many

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed the movie but it was far from perfect. Carrie Fisher's passing gave the movie a little more gravity than what it would have had otherwise.

It was kind of a weird ending with no real clues to what will happen in the next installment or even what we might have to look forward to. I like the theme that the existence of the Resistence gives people/children hope. But the rebels have been nearly destroyed that it seems like some large group will need to come out of nowhere to help rebuild.

I did think it was cool how the scene with Ray, Ben/Kylo Ren, Snoke so clearly paralleled the scene with Luke, Vader, and the Emppero

"We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love."

Rey won't be able to destroy Kylo Ren for the part of him she hates, she'll try to save him for the part of him she loves.

This is so gross. This is the message we want to send to our daughters? Yes, he's a genocidal maniac, but your love can save him! Yuck.

And no, Luke and Vader are not the same. A familial connection is one thing, but a romance-- no. The trope of a good woman saving the angry and broken man needs to die. It's damaging.

The entire Star Wars saga is about redemption. If you can't see any room for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, you don't understand Star Wars at all.

One further thought, don't forget that they had talked about how Episode IX was going to be Leia's movie, and it's possible that Leia, and not Rey, was originally intended to be the source of Kylo's redemption. Parent-child relationships are also a prominent theme of Star Wars, and this would flip the Luke/Vader redemption story on its head. But now that Carrie Fisher has passed and there will be no more Leia, the only surviving character with a relationship with Kylo that could possibly lead to his redemption is Rey.

How about Kylo saves his own damn self?

I'm not sure why redemption means that he gets the girl.

Let's say Darth Vader didn't die at the end of Return of the Jedi. He's "redeemed" so he doesn't face any consequences? He just gets to be Dad and live in Han and Leia's basement? I don't think so.

Sorry, but a romance between Kylo and Rey is really, really gross.

You remember you're talking about a movie, right? This sounds like something you'd be better served to work out in therapy.

Ah, I see. The "but actually, you're just crazy" argument.

Lazy.

It was actually sincere. The intensity of your rage over a movie is troubling, I hope you can work through whatever is underlying that and be happy.

"The intensity of my rage"? Because I said "damn"? LOL.

Are you always this condescending, or only on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed the movie but it was far from perfect. Carrie Fisher's passing gave the movie a little more gravity than what it would have had otherwise.

It was kind of a weird ending with no real clues to what will happen in the next installment or even what we might have to look forward to. I like the theme that the existence of the Resistence gives people/children hope. But the rebels have been nearly destroyed that it seems like some large group will need to come out of nowhere to help rebuild.

I did think it was cool how the scene with Ray, Ben/Kylo Ren, Snoke so clearly paralleled the scene with Luke, Vader, and the Emppero

"We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love."

Rey won't be able to destroy Kylo Ren for the part of him she hates, she'll try to save him for the part of him she loves.

This is so gross. This is the message we want to send to our daughters? Yes, he's a genocidal maniac, but your love can save him! Yuck.

And no, Luke and Vader are not the same. A familial connection is one thing, but a romance-- no. The trope of a good woman saving the angry and broken man needs to die. It's damaging.

The entire Star Wars saga is about redemption. If you can't see any room for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, you don't understand Star Wars at all.

One further thought, don't forget that they had talked about how Episode IX was going to be Leia's movie, and it's possible that Leia, and not Rey, was originally intended to be the source of Kylo's redemption. Parent-child relationships are also a prominent theme of Star Wars, and this would flip the Luke/Vader redemption story on its head. But now that Carrie Fisher has passed and there will be no more Leia, the only surviving character with a relationship with Kylo that could possibly lead to his redemption is Rey.

How about Kylo saves his own damn self?

I'm not sure why redemption means that he gets the girl.

Let's say Darth Vader didn't die at the end of Return of the Jedi. He's "redeemed" so he doesn't face any consequences? He just gets to be Dad and live in Han and Leia's basement? I don't think so.

Sorry, but a romance between Kylo and Rey is really, really gross.

No man is an island. Remember the Force, an energy that binds all together all living things? It's a key part of Star Wars that we are all bound to each other, and it's those connections that bring light into the universe. After all, every time we see someone decide to go it alone, that's when they find themselves tempted by or succumbing to the Dark Side. And no one comes back from the Dark Side alone, they come back to it through their connections to other people. In RotJ, when Luke was on the brink of turning during his battle with Vader, and it was seeing Vader's severed hand and the reminder it was of Vader's humanity, Luke's humanity via his own severed hand, and the common bond between them as father and son that brought him back from the Dark Side.

So if Kylo is going to be redeemed, it will be via his connections to other people who don't see him as irredeemable. Han and Luke are dead, Leia (however they resolve her story) won't be there, the only other character he has a connection to is Rey. So it has to be her. I don't know what other possibility you see that wouldn't violate the essence of Star Wars.

+1 I agree, and think it's bizarre people are reading sexual tension into their relationship. It's an emotional connection, nothing sexual about it. Still pretty convinced they're twins, too much mirroring of Luke and Leia. Though I haven't been able to figure out why her birth was concealed and Ben's was not. Maybe related to some prophecy yet to be revealed.

+2. I also did not read sexual tension into their connection, and viewed them as twins separated at birth (or at least singleton sibs close in age). It seems pretty much everyone who has had a connection through the Force--Luke and Leia, Vader and Luke, Leia and Kylo, etc.--were relatives, so my hunch is that this will be the case here too.

Then why the shirtless scene?

[Anonymous]

I liked this piece on TLJ, it summed up a lot of why I really like it and yet can understand why uber fanboy types don't.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/

[Anonymous]

I am Super confused on timeline. Like, they just blew up the big planet thing and all of a sudden, the first order has destroyed them all but one rebel base? I mean, really, Rey JUST got the the island.

So much of this movie makes zero sense.

Oh, and another one - how the eff did Rey get onto the falcon after the ship was rammed? And the first order sure regrouped fast to get all that equipment down to that weird red salt planet.

These things make me feel like they just slapped some things together and hoped we wouldn't notice these ginormous plot holes.

[Anonymous]

Also, Kylo ren continues to throw temper tantrums like a damn 2 year old. I honestly cannot take him seriously as a villain. He needs a serious time out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Super confused on timeline. Like, they just blew up the big planet thing and all of a sudden, the first order has destroyed them all but one rebel base? I mean, really, Rey JUST got the the island.

So much of this movie makes zero sense.

Oh, and another one - how the eff did Rey get onto the falcon after the ship was rammed? And the first order sure regrouped fast to get all that equipment down to that weird red salt planet.

These things make me feel like they just slapped some things together and hoped we wouldn't notice these ginormous plot holes.

It’s science fiction. If not for plot holes it wouldn’t exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Super confused on timeline. Like, they just blew up the big planet thing and all of a sudden, the first order has destroyed them all but one rebel base? I mean, really, Rey JUST got the the island.

So much of this movie makes zero sense.

Oh, and another one - how the eff did Rey get onto the falcon after the ship was rammed? And the first order sure regrouped fast to get all that equipment down to that weird red salt planet.

These things make me feel like they just slapped some things together and hoped we wouldn't notice these ginormous plot holes.

It’s science fiction. If not for plot holes it wouldn’t exist.

of course it's fantasy. I get that. But come on....this is pretty egregious

[Anonymous]

+2. I also did not read sexual tension into their connection, and viewed them as twins separated at birth (or at least singleton sibs close in age). It seems pretty much everyone who has had a connection through the Force--Luke and Leia, Vader and Luke, Leia and Kylo, etc.--were relatives, so my hunch is that this will be the case here too.

Then why the shirtless scene?

If I recall correctly, one of them said "I'd rather not do this right now," and the other one confirmed at the beginning of the scene, where they were connected via the Force. Then, she asked him to put a towel on. So I read that not as sexual tension, but that seeing him shirtless was sort of a turnoff to her (because, I think, he's actually her brother).