OJ: Made in America (ESPN Doc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There have been many stories on Casey Anthony--a fairly obscure woman (before her daughter's murder) with a "sketchy" history-- and the death of her daughter, a truly precious, innocent child. There's just no way though that most people in this country would have the interest in her case that they did in OJ. From a very impoverished background, he was a handsome, wealthy incredibly fantastic football player and famous through TV and the movies. It was shocking to think he was also a murderer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There have been many stories on Casey Anthony--a fairly obscure woman (before her daughter's murder) with a "sketchy" history-- and the death of her daughter, a truly precious, innocent child. There's just no way though that most people in this country would have the interest in her case that they did in OJ. From a very impoverished background, he was a handsome, wealthy incredibly fantastic football player and famous through TV and the movies. It was shocking to think he was also a murderer.

I think pp's point is that only one of these examples of getting away with murder still gets people riled up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There have been many stories on Casey Anthony--a fairly obscure woman (before her daughter's murder) with a "sketchy" history-- and the death of her daughter, a truly precious, innocent child. There's just no way though that most people in this country would have the interest in her case that they did in OJ. From a very impoverished background, he was a handsome, wealthy incredibly fantastic football player and famous through TV and the movies. It was shocking to think he was also a murderer.

I think pp's point is that only one of these examples of getting away with murder still gets people riled up

It's not just interest - that trial pitted blacks against white in the US in a tangible and very real way. It wasn't just about OJ, it was about the criminal justice system, racial relations and served to show the real fissures in our society that had been glossed over.

[Anonymous]

Well, Oscar Pistorius isn't American. I imagine it'll be a big story in South Africa for a long time. And still a big international story.

I'm not certain what your point is. OJ was arguably the most famous person to be charged with murder in America. If not THE most famous, certainly top 5. He was a sports hero, a constant (affable) presence on TV, and a movie star. Take that level of fame, add in a layer of race issues and you've got an enduring story in America.

Now, why Robert Blake isn't as big a case- I don't know. He was older? Out of the limelight for the most part? Dunno. There's also the record guy, I'm even blanking on his name. They were both pretty obviously mentally disturbed individuals, so maybe that's part of it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, Oscar Pistorius isn't American. I imagine it'll be a big story in South Africa for a long time. And still a big international story.

I'm not certain what your point is. OJ was arguably the most famous person to be charged with murder in America. If not THE most famous, certainly top 5. He was a sports hero, a constant (affable) presence on TV, and a movie star. Take that level of fame, add in a layer of race issues and you've got an enduring story in America.

Now, why Robert Blake isn't as big a case- I don't know. He was older? Out of the limelight for the most part? Dunno. There's also the record guy, I'm even blanking on his name. They were both pretty obviously mentally disturbed individuals, so maybe that's part of it?

+1 Very little about Robert Blake's appearance or personality made a lasting impression with a large number of people. OJ spent a lifetime "relating" to people, and they felt they could relate to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, Oscar Pistorius isn't American. I imagine it'll be a big story in South Africa for a long time. And still a big international story.

I'm not certain what your point is. OJ was arguably the most famous person to be charged with murder in America. If not THE most famous, certainly top 5. He was a sports hero, a constant (affable) presence on TV, and a movie star. Take that level of fame, add in a layer of race issues and you've got an enduring story in America.

Now, why Robert Blake isn't as big a case- I don't know. He was older? Out of the limelight for the most part? Dunno. There's also the record guy, I'm even blanking on his name. They were both pretty obviously mentally disturbed individuals, so maybe that's part of it?

Phil Spector?

I'm 43. I had never heard of Robert Blake before the murder. OJ was EVERYWHERE for my whole life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There were stories on Casey Anthony this week - 5-year mark.

None of these others were like OJ. He was always a cultural juggernaut from the late 1960s forward. Plus the case itself was the advent of 24 hour TV, wall-to-wall media and a mirror into our American pop-culture psyche, especially about race.

+1

I just finished the series. It actually made me feel sorry for him, while at the same time thinking he should of thought of that (his reputation, or whatever he regrets) sooner. I also wonder what ever happened to the kids. One of the interviewees (former agent?) said he treated them horribly. The Browns lost custody, which was huge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, every time a white person erupts in hysterics over the outcome of the OJ trial, I know I am dealing with:

(1) a person too stupid to understand what "beyond reasonable doubt" means.

(2) an idiotic racist who thinks white lives are more important than all other lives. If you are not similarly disturbed and aggrieved by the thousands of unavenged black deaths in the time since the OJ trial, feel free to take a flying leap off the nearest bridge.

I don't understand this. The evidence proved that he did it beyond reasonable doubt. How do you have his blood, Nicole's blood, and Ron's blood at HER house, in HIS car, and at HIS house if he didn't do it? And no one else's blood in ANY of those locations?* What other reasonable scenario is there? And don't say they cops framed him because they didn't have any of OJ's blood to plant in those locations when they were established as crime scenes. If anyone in your life was murdered, you would absolutely accept that much evidence as proof of guilt. Anybody would.

*Plus hairs and clothing fibers from all three people, OJ's gloves at two locations, shoe prints established to be from shoes he owned, etc etc. Not even getting into the multiple eyewitnesses who saw his car in both locations, etc. Just the literal physical evidence at three locations (two houses and the car) that the defense did NOT get thrown out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There were stories on Casey Anthony this week - 5-year mark.

None of these others were like OJ. He was always a cultural juggernaut from the late 1960s forward. Plus the case itself was the advent of 24 hour TV, wall-to-wall media and a mirror into our American pop-culture psyche, especially about race.

+1

I just finished the series. It actually made me feel sorry for him, while at the same time thinking he should of thought of that (his reputation, or whatever he regrets) sooner. I also wonder what ever happened to the kids. One of the interviewees (former agent?) said he treated them horribly. The Browns lost custody, which was huge.

I too found myself feeling bad for him at the very end, it was just very depressing. He overcame so much, reached such heights and blew it all. I have no doubt he did it and am thoroughly disgusted in the way he treated Nicole and acted post verdict. Yet, it is just all kinda tragic.

I too watched both series and loved them both. The documentary is great for overall context. The miniseries was better at showing the some of the details (where blood and gloves found, how the prosecution made and lost the case), with the glaring exception of Hodgman's description of the actual murders in episode 4. I can never unsee that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There were stories on Casey Anthony this week - 5-year mark.

None of these others were like OJ. He was always a cultural juggernaut from the late 1960s forward. Plus the case itself was the advent of 24 hour TV, wall-to-wall media and a mirror into our American pop-culture psyche, especially about race.

+1

I just finished the series. It actually made me feel sorry for him, while at the same time thinking he should of thought of that (his reputation, or whatever he regrets) sooner. I also wonder what ever happened to the kids. One of the interviewees (former agent?) said he treated them horribly. The Browns lost custody, which was huge.

I too found myself feeling bad for him at the very end, it was just very depressing. He overcame so much, reached such heights and blew it all. I have no doubt he did it and am thoroughly disgusted in the way he treated Nicole and acted post verdict. Yet, it is just all kinda tragic.

I too watched both series and loved them both. The documentary is great for overall context. The miniseries was better at showing the some of the details (where blood and gloves found, how the prosecution made and lost the case), with the glaring exception of Hodgman's description of the actual murders in episode 4. I can never unsee that.

The documentary did much more on OJ's backstory and on the overall LA racial situation and the police situation. The miniseries did a lot more about the people involved in the case--Marcia Clark, Chris Darden, Johnnie Cochran, etc. in a way that made me much more sympathetic to them. And the horrible nature of the jury sequestration. Its no wonder Hodgman had a coronary. Yet neither show made me feel any better about Ito, he seems to be the one that let it all go totally off the rails, and it might have been different if a more forceful judge had been in charge. It was a tough job, no matter what, between the threat of appeal and the racial tensions outdoors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today Oscar Pistorius sentenced to 6 years for killing his girlfriend (3 years after the fact!) Will anyone remember after tomorrow? Where are the follow up stories on Casey Anthony? Robert Blake?

There were stories on Casey Anthony this week - 5-year mark.

None of these others were like OJ. He was always a cultural juggernaut from the late 1960s forward. Plus the case itself was the advent of 24 hour TV, wall-to-wall media and a mirror into our American pop-culture psyche, especially about race.

+1

I just finished the series. It actually made me feel sorry for him, while at the same time thinking he should of thought of that (his reputation, or whatever he regrets) sooner. I also wonder what ever happened to the kids. One of the interviewees (former agent?) said he treated them horribly. The Browns lost custody, which was huge.

I too found myself feeling bad for him at the very end, it was just very depressing. He overcame so much, reached such heights and blew it all. I have no doubt he did it and am thoroughly disgusted in the way he treated Nicole and acted post verdict. Yet, it is just all kinda tragic.

I too watched both series and loved them both. The documentary is great for overall context. The miniseries was better at showing the some of the details (where blood and gloves found, how the prosecution made and lost the case), with the glaring exception of Hodgman's description of the actual murders in episode 4. I can never unsee that.

+1

The prosecution was naive. Kudos to Darden. He is my hero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watching both the the FX series and ESPN doc, I came away fascinated with Johnnie Cochran. I didn't know much about his career and personal life outside of the OJ trial. I hear a biopic is being filmed about him, I'm really looking forward to watching.

I just finished the FX series and I did not care for Johnnie during the trial but I found myself liking him when he wasn't caught up in the trial.

My thoughts...Johnnie wasn't so much interested in defending OJ but as using this as his opportunity to put the racist LAPD on trial. He wanted to change race relations and thought this trial would be his chance to do so.

It also struck me at the end when Darden and Johnnie were talking. Johnnie offered Chris help in coming back to the community and Chris said he never left. Chris then told Johnnie how this trial won't be the one to change race relations. All people would see is they used the race card to get a guilty man off scot free.

I plan to watch the documentary next.

+1

It came down to the black characters, and how it wasn't really about the trial at all, yet did not nothing to help race relations. In fact, the OJ trial probably hurt race relations even more. You can get off if you are RICH, and OJ cares nothing about black people Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, every time a white person erupts in hysterics over the outcome of the OJ trial, I know I am dealing with:

(1) a person too stupid to understand what "beyond reasonable doubt" means.

(2) an idiotic racist who thinks white lives are more important than all other lives. If you are not similarly disturbed and aggrieved by the thousands of unavenged black deaths in the time since the OJ trial, feel free to take a flying leap off the nearest bridge.

I don't understand this. The evidence proved that he did it beyond reasonable doubt. How do you have his blood, Nicole's blood, and Ron's blood at HER house, in HIS car, and at HIS house if he didn't do it? And no one else's blood in ANY of those locations?* What other reasonable scenario is there? And don't say they cops framed him because they didn't have any of OJ's blood to plant in those locations when they were established as crime scenes. If anyone in your life was murdered, you would absolutely accept that much evidence as proof of guilt. Anybody would.

*Plus hairs and clothing fibers from all three people, OJ's gloves at two locations, shoe prints established to be from shoes he owned, etc etc. Not even getting into the multiple eyewitnesses who saw his car in both locations, etc. Just the literal physical evidence at three locations (two houses and the car) that the defense did NOT get thrown out.

+1

Let it go. Some people are looking for any excuse to call someone a racist. If you didn't vote for Obama - must be racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, every time a white person erupts in hysterics over the outcome of the OJ trial, I know I am dealing with:

(1) a person too stupid to understand what "beyond reasonable doubt" means.

(2) an idiotic racist who thinks white lives are more important than all other lives. If you are not similarly disturbed and aggrieved by the thousands of unavenged black deaths in the time since the OJ trial, feel free to take a flying leap off the nearest bridge.

I don't understand this. The evidence proved that he did it beyond reasonable doubt. How do you have his blood, Nicole's blood, and Ron's blood at HER house, in HIS car, and at HIS house if he didn't do it? And no one else's blood in ANY of those locations?* What other reasonable scenario is there? And don't say they cops framed him because they didn't have any of OJ's blood to plant in those locations when they were established as crime scenes. If anyone in your life was murdered, you would absolutely accept that much evidence as proof of guilt. Anybody would.

*Plus hairs and clothing fibers from all three people, OJ's gloves at two locations, shoe prints established to be from shoes he owned, etc etc. Not even getting into the multiple eyewitnesses who saw his car in both locations, etc. Just the literal physical evidence at three locations (two houses and the car) that the defense did NOT get thrown out.

When one of the detectives is asked directly if he planted evidence and takes the Fifth, even damning evidence doesn't do much damning anymore.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I remember the trial well, though my career was demanding, so it did not allow me time to watch the trial, which was televised constantly for months. For younger people, this was the first time a trial had been in the media to this extent.

I was riveted to this series. So many race issues remain unsolved; yet it is blatantly obvious who "did it".

For example, it blew my mind that the LAPD didn't respond to the riots and let the rioters burn down their own community. LAPD was corrupt, but also damned if they did/do and damned if the don't.