OJ: Made in America (ESPN Doc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watching both the the FX series and ESPN doc, I came away fascinated with Johnnie Cochran. I didn't know much about his career and personal life outside of the OJ trial. I hear a biopic is being filmed about him, I'm really looking forward to watching.

I just finished the FX series and I did not care for Johnnie during the trial but I found myself liking him when he wasn't caught up in the trial.

My thoughts...Johnnie wasn't so much interested in defending OJ but as using this as his opportunity to put the racist LAPD on trial. He wanted to change race relations and thought this trial would be his chance to do so.

It also struck me at the end when Darden and Johnnie were talking. Johnnie offered Chris help in coming back to the community and Chris said he never left. Chris then told Johnnie how this trial won't be the one to change race relations. All people would see is they used the race card to get a guilty man off scot free.

I plan to watch the documentary next.

Thing is, they didn't have to play the race card. The actions of the LAPD were all they needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you watch the FX series "American Crime Story: People vs. OJ Simpson"?

We have 2 episodes to go. I don't want to watch the ESPN one until we've finished with the FX one.

It has been really fascinating. I have also been reading the Vanity Fair reality checks to see what details are true, false, or modified.

I watched both. The ESPN series is ten times better than the FX one.
Real interviews with the actual people involved. And, real footage.
I watched the trial when it was going on in the 90’s.
Tragic for the Brown and Goldman families.
A real miscarriage of justice. OJ was guilty as sin.

I didn't think one program was necessarily better than the other. They were totally different projects. The acting in the mini-series was superb - Sarah Paulson, Sterling Brown, Courtney B. Vance, Nathan Lane - and I appreciate how they exposed the sexism directed at Clark at the time - ironic as the defense was playing a different discriminatory card during the trial.

And the documentary was fascinating in the way it showed how the black leaders in the 60s and 70s had given up on OJ even lifting a finger to help the cause, and then the trial shows how the least black black person ever benefits in the trial from being black. I also appreciated how the documentary detailed the Keystone Cops nature of the robbery, which finally got OJ behind bars. While we all knew the details from the murders, after viewing the trial for a year, I was never very sure how the robbery played out, and the doc handled it well.

+1. I feel like I could have written these exact words. Both series were riveting. I followed the entire murder saga from the first night and had been a huge OJ fan before. I remember being shaken when he was implicated and then confused by the Time Magazine cover that darkened his complexion. I was stunned by the verdict but not shocked. I thought there were too many unforced errors by the prosecution; not only the gloves but the tedious recitation of the DNA evidence, Fuhrman, the LAPD bumbling over a celebrity that actually played into the defense's hands. As a lawyer, I respect reasonable doubt. I don't think in totality that the verdict was jury nullification as many commentators said at the time. I really think this jury was skeptical of the evidence against the backdrop of their collective experiences with LAPD.

[Anonymous]

the DNA evidence was tedious? well, DNA evidence IS tedious, but it is accurate. And that alone should have been enough to convict him in most cases and courts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the DNA evidence was tedious? well, DNA evidence IS tedious, but it is accurate. And that alone should have been enough to convict him in most cases and courts.

that's what i thought too. like we're 99% its oj's blood. the jury - so you're saying there's a chance it isn't?

this documentary had us totally enthralled last week. dare to say i am all oj'd out. but it was so fascinating to talk to my husband about it. we saw most of the FX series. we were both in college at the time of the verdict and recounted being at HBCUs when the murders happened and the verdict came down. episode three i think it was did me in with the graphic photos. my god!

[Anonymous]

My theory was always that OJ's son was involved somehow. Is that raised/rebuffed in the ESPN doc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the DNA evidence was tedious? well, DNA evidence IS tedious, but it is accurate. And that alone should have been enough to convict him in most cases and courts.

Did you watch the trial? The prosecution's direct of Dennis Fung on the DNA went on for days and it actually made the blood evidence less compelling. They made it too academic and arcane even with the literal buckets of blood they found around the crime scene. That was even before Barry Scheck destroyed Fung on cross.

[Anonymous]

I started watching the documentary last Wednesday and my plan was to watch one at the time because it is 2 hours each. I didn't stop watching until I finish the 5 two hours episodes. It was mesmerizing, a great piece of work. I couldn't believe I watch tv for 10 hours straight on a week night.

I am still thinking about the pictures of Nicole and Ron's necks. Those poor people...

He is surely in jail now not because of that stupid Las Vegas crime, but because of the murders.

[Anonymous]

The most interesting part to me was that at the end of the day the jurors voted mainly so they could just go home already.

They became prisoners in solitary confinement themselves. The DA should have had this in mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I started watching the documentary last Wednesday and my plan was to watch one at the time because it is 2 hours each. I didn't stop watching until I finish the 5 two hours episodes. It was mesmerizing, a great piece of work. I couldn't believe I watch tv for 10 hours straight on a week night.

I am still thinking about the pictures of Nicole and Ron's necks. Those poor people...

He is surely in jail now not because of that stupid Las Vegas crime, but because of the murders.

They could have given us a WARNING about that shot. I nearly spat my food across the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My theory was always that OJ's son was involved somehow. Is that raised/rebuffed in the ESPN doc?

No. It is so clear what happened-- it really is. He came over to kill her and he did. Goldman was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I started watching the documentary last Wednesday and my plan was to watch one at the time because it is 2 hours each. I didn't stop watching until I finish the 5 two hours episodes. It was mesmerizing, a great piece of work. I couldn't believe I watch tv for 10 hours straight on a week night.

I am still thinking about the pictures of Nicole and Ron's necks. Those poor people...

He is surely in jail now not because of that stupid Las Vegas crime, but because of the murders.

They could have given us a WARNING about that shot. I nearly spat my food across the room.

Is this in the ESPN Doc? Which episode?

I haven't see the ESPN series yet. They'll be playing later this week. We've got the DVR set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the DNA evidence was tedious? well, DNA evidence IS tedious, but it is accurate. And that alone should have been enough to convict him in most cases and courts.

Did you watch the trial? The prosecution's direct of Dennis Fung on the DNA went on for days and it actually made the blood evidence less compelling. They made it too academic and arcane even with the literal buckets of blood they found around the crime scene. That was even before Barry Scheck destroyed Fung on cross.

I was busy attended my classes in college, so I didn't get to watch every second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I started watching the documentary last Wednesday and my plan was to watch one at the time because it is 2 hours each. I didn't stop watching until I finish the 5 two hours episodes. It was mesmerizing, a great piece of work. I couldn't believe I watch tv for 10 hours straight on a week night.

I am still thinking about the pictures of Nicole and Ron's necks. Those poor people...

He is surely in jail now not because of that stupid Las Vegas crime, but because of the murders.

They could have given us a WARNING about that shot. I nearly spat my food across the room.

They posted several warnings about extremely graphic and disturbing content - at the beginning and at least twice more during commercial breaks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://espn.go.com/30for30/ojsimpsonmadeinamerica/

Anyone have thoughts on this documentary?

IMO, its a fascinating take of the events occurred. Particularly as it relates to race and law.

1) The images of the Nicole and her lover confirmed my thoughts that the crime was one of passion. It was overkill. A hired gun wouldn't go to such lengths. OJ is guilt as sin and he knows it.

2) Even though the bastard was guilty as sin, the LAPD blew the case. No way jury could convict when Fuhrman pleads the 5th on planting evidence. He also is a racist. I'm not sure I could have convicted just knowing that alone.

3) I never truly understood why AA's at the time where so happy that he got off. I thought it was simply b/c he was black and they felt unfairly treated by the police. I viewed it more as an "eye for and eye" from the Rodney King beating verdicts. It was much deeper than that. More like an eye for one million eyes.

I don't believe this approach to "retribution" is right, but I completely understand the sentiment now, and can't say I would't have felt the same way, if I lived the shoes of an AA at the time. The Goldman and Brown families deserved justice, justice. The shouldn't have to pay b/c LE and the criminal justice system was, and likely still is, is inherently racist institution. My guess is that for every Brown and Goldman family, there are 10 AA families that don't get justice and that are intentionally harassed and/or persecuted. Neither should happen, but it seems no one cares about the latter. I didn't realize this.

I actually see parallels b/t the protests and anger during the trial and the ones we have today in response to all these shootings of unarmed AAs. Makes me wonder how far we have some on this front, and if another trial like this were to occur, would we have a similar situation. I believe we would.

4) The Goldman family is ultimately the reason why OJ is jail now. Without the civil case judgement, OJ would be living wealthy on tropical islands. Instead he was scavenging for assets and that lead to his downfall.

The fact that you are referring to Goldman as “her lover” makes me seriously question the remainder of your post.

I came away thinking that Johnny Cochran was a race-baiting attorney who knew that his only hope in getting a guilty man free was to focus on race instead of the actual crime.
Glad OJ is in prison and I actually hope he dies there.

NP here. OP made a simple typo. No need to be rude.

Cochran did his job. The LAPD made it easy for him. If they weren't racist, OJ would haBe just been another murderer in jail. Not some symbol of historical injustice.

I do not agree with the circumstances on how OJ was convicted for robbery. The sentence was way too aggressive based on the crime.

This is one of the arguments from one of Cochran's attorneys who basically said it was payback - supposedly the judge held the jury past midnight so the sentence could be delivered on the same date as his acquittal day years earlier and the sentence was identical (in number of years - 33) to the civil award $33.0 million.

Who cares? He deserved it and then some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I started watching the documentary last Wednesday and my plan was to watch one at the time because it is 2 hours each. I didn't stop watching until I finish the 5 two hours episodes. It was mesmerizing, a great piece of work. I couldn't believe I watch tv for 10 hours straight on a week night.

I am still thinking about the pictures of Nicole and Ron's necks. Those poor people...

He is surely in jail now not because of that stupid Las Vegas crime, but because of the murders.

They could have given us a WARNING about that shot. I nearly spat my food across the room.

They posted several warnings about extremely graphic and disturbing content - at the beginning and at least twice more during commercial breaks.

There were several news articles that week about how they were going to show never-before-seen, gory photos of the bodies during that installment.