Having children say "yes sir" or "yes mam"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't like it because I think all humans are equal, regardless of age. All people are deserving of courtesy, again, regardless of age. And using honorifics for only certain people in a social setting sets the tone that we are not all equals. You can be courteous and caring without titles. But would I fall on this sword in an argument with my husand? Probably not. I'd discuss my beliefs about it with the kids as they got older. At some point, They will decide how they want to address others anyway.

Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?

I want my child to be courteous to all people, Not just those older than they are.

It's not a failure to teach manners. It's just a different approach to manners. It's not a free pass to act inappropriately. It's teaching appropriate behavior within the context that all humans are worthy of kindness and consideration, my child included. From the infant to the elderly. The disabled to the powerful.

I think the "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" teachings are more cultural/locational than some other forms of manners in the US, so I understand why some/most here in DC wouldn't teach it. Do you teach your children to call their teachers, and the elderly, Mr., Ms., or Miss, or do you teach them to call their teachers by their first (or last) name only?

We teach our kids to call people they want to be called. Some teachers like "Ms. [Firstname]," and some like ["Mrs. Lastname"], his grandparents like "sir" and "ma'am", etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We teach our kids to call people what they want to be called. Some teachers like "Ms. [Firstname]," and some like ["Mrs. Lastname"], his grandparents like "sir" and "ma'am", etc.

We do too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well given some of the responses on here it does sound like some people do appreciate being sir'ed and ma'amed. Particularly if you are an older AA or someone from the south, I bet you would very much appreciate it. No, not every child has to say it but I certainly don't think it's going to offend anyone if OP's children say it. And if it does offend you, then you need to find some bigger problems.

It actually does offend some people to be called sir and ma'am -- just as some people like being called sir and ma'am.

And it is not polite to call somebody sir or ma'am if they don't want to be called sir or ma'am.

It offends them? Someone can have a preference to not be called or sir or ma'am without being offended by it, and they can tell the kids to just call them Janet or Bob.
How do you figure someone is *offended* by sir or ma'am? Sounds like you are reaching.

People have said so right here, on this thread.

And if people who don't want to be sirred/ma'amed can just say so, then people who do want to be sirred/ma'amed can also just say so. That is not an argument for or against sirring/ma'aming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We teach our kids to call people what they want to be called. Some teachers like "Ms. [Firstname]," and some like ["Mrs. Lastname"], his grandparents like "sir" and "ma'am", etc.

We do too.

+2. I never said "yes sir/ma'am" growing up but it certainly doesn't offend me when people say it. It's not impolite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well given some of the responses on here it does sound like some people do appreciate being sir'ed and ma'amed. Particularly if you are an older AA or someone from the south, I bet you would very much appreciate it. No, not every child has to say it but I certainly don't think it's going to offend anyone if OP's children say it. And if it does offend you, then you need to find some bigger problems.

It actually does offend some people to be called sir and ma'am -- just as some people like being called sir and ma'am.

And it is not polite to call somebody sir or ma'am if they don't want to be called sir or ma'am.

It offends them? Someone can have a preference to not be called or sir or ma'am without being offended by it, and they can tell the kids to just call them Janet or Bob.
How do you figure someone is *offended* by sir or ma'am? Sounds like you are reaching.

People have said so right here, on this thread.

And if people who don't want to be sirred/ma'amed can just say so, then people who do want to be sirred/ma'amed can also just say so. That is not an argument for or against sirring/ma'aming.

I haven't seen anyone say they were personally offended by it.
If you are, what about it do you find offensive? If a child doesn't know what you want to be called and starts with sir or ma'am, do you feel it is some sort of insult? Is it denigrating in some way?

[Anonymous]

We come from a military family - and both my husband and I really agreed we did NOT want to use the yes ma'am or sir.

One thing though OP, you and your husband (black or while) need to get on the same page on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I haven't seen anyone say they were personally offended by it.
If you are, what about it do you find offensive? If a child doesn't know what you want to be called and starts with sir or ma'am, do you feel it is some sort of insult? Is it denigrating in some way?

Different people have different preferences and different beliefs and find different things offensive. If you acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called Mr./Mrs. Lastname -- and you will agree that there are plenty of people like that, right? -- then it shouldn't be such a stretch for you to acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called sir/ma'am.

[Anonymous]

Op, I think the issue is unimportant - however, it sounds like your husband has a stronger preference than you, so may as well. There are plenty of differences when raising children. This one, not-a-biggie

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I haven't seen anyone say they were personally offended by it.
If you are, what about it do you find offensive? If a child doesn't know what you want to be called and starts with sir or ma'am, do you feel it is some sort of insult? Is it denigrating in some way?

Different people have different preferences and different beliefs and find different things offensive. If you acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called Mr./Mrs. Lastname -- and you will agree that there are plenty of people like that, right? -- then it shouldn't be such a stretch for you to acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called sir/ma'am.

I know people who don't like being called mr/mrs last name and clear it up right away so everyone can proceed accordingly. But I'm not talking about preferences, im talking about taking offense. People tend to take offense when they feel they've been insulted or belittled or disrespected in some way, so I'm trying to understand how a child saying sir/ma'am to an adult stranger, before knowing their preferences, fits into any of those categories? Not preferring something is very different than being offended by it.

[Anonymous]

This is very interesting cultural phenomena. I am Indian. We grew up calling our teachers sirs and ma'ams in India. This later translated to our professional life where we automatically referred to people who were senior to us (in rank, designation or age) similarly. My children call their teachers here Mr./Miss/Ms. Lastname.

In India, it was common for us to call our parent's adult friends and our neighbors as "uncles" and "aunties". Unmarried people who were older than us, (like the children of the said "uncles and aunties") were called the Hindi equivalent of "elder brother" and "elder sister". That was a part of teaching us good manners and proper way of addressing people . It was seen as being polite.

My children who were born here address our American neighbors as Mr. or Mrs. Lastname, but they refer to all our friends who are Indians as "Firstname uncle" and "Firstname aunty".

When I hear my southern neighbors kids refer to me as "Miss MyFirstName" and answer "Yes Ma'am" - I think of them as children who were taught good manners by their parents. I understand that they are being polite. I do not think of them as being slavelike or being deferential. This is politeness and it does not mean that they necessarily respect me.

Policemen usually call everyone ma'am and sir. They are not being deferential. They are being polite. Politeness sets a tone for civil interaction.

I have commented to many kids here not to call me by firstname. They can either call me "Mrs. Lastname" or call me "MyChildren's Mom".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We come from a military family - and both my husband and I really agreed we did NOT want to use the yes ma'am or sir.

One thing though OP, you and your husband (black or while) need to get on the same page on this.

I am also from a military family (from another country) who married a non-military guy. As a military daughter, I was so used to the chivalrous manners of the military men around me that it was a big adjustment to get used to the 'civilian' way of life. I loved the yes ma'am and sir. I guess I am old fashioned, because I have taught my sons to be polite and considerate to people around them. My son who is 10 years old, consistently gives his seat up for ladies and old people in the metro, holds open doors for people who need help in restaurants, dr. office, school etc - and I am filled with pride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I haven't seen anyone say they were personally offended by it.
If you are, what about it do you find offensive? If a child doesn't know what you want to be called and starts with sir or ma'am, do you feel it is some sort of insult? Is it denigrating in some way?

Different people have different preferences and different beliefs and find different things offensive. If you acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called Mr./Mrs. Lastname -- and you will agree that there are plenty of people like that, right? -- then it shouldn't be such a stretch for you to acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called sir/ma'am.

I know people who don't like being called mr/mrs last name and clear it up right away so everyone can proceed accordingly. But I'm not talking about preferences, im talking about taking offense. People tend to take offense when they feel they've been insulted or belittled or disrespected in some way, so I'm trying to understand how a child saying sir/ma'am to an adult stranger, before knowing their preferences, fits into any of those categories? Not preferring something is very different than being offended by it.

Adults can interpret a child saying "sir" or "ma'am" as being disrespectful, based on tone. Likewise, based on tone, a polite "sir" or "ma'am" should not give offense. If an adult is entirely unfamiliar with the form of address, as OP seems to be, then maybe every person saying "ma'am" to her is offending her, due to a misunderstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I haven't seen anyone say they were personally offended by it.
If you are, what about it do you find offensive? If a child doesn't know what you want to be called and starts with sir or ma'am, do you feel it is some sort of insult? Is it denigrating in some way?

Different people have different preferences and different beliefs and find different things offensive. If you acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called Mr./Mrs. Lastname -- and you will agree that there are plenty of people like that, right? -- then it shouldn't be such a stretch for you to acknowledge that there are people who don't like to be called sir/ma'am.

I know people who don't like being called mr/mrs last name and clear it up right away so everyone can proceed accordingly. But I'm not talking about preferences, im talking about taking offense. People tend to take offense when they feel they've been insulted or belittled or disrespected in some way, so I'm trying to understand how a child saying sir/ma'am to an adult stranger, before knowing their preferences, fits into any of those categories? Not preferring something is very different than being offended by it.

Adults can interpret a child saying "sir" or "ma'am" as being disrespectful, based on tone. Likewise, based on tone, a polite "sir" or "ma'am" should not give offense. If an adult is entirely unfamiliar with the form of address, as OP seems to be, then maybe every person saying "ma'am" to her is offending her, due to a misunderstanding.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We come from a military family - and both my husband and I really agreed we did NOT want to use the yes ma'am or sir.

One thing though OP, you and your husband (black or while) need to get on the same page on this.

I am also from a military family (from another country) who married a non-military guy. As a military daughter, I was so used to the chivalrous manners of the military men around me that it was a big adjustment to get used to the 'civilian' way of life. I loved the yes ma'am and sir. I guess I am old fashioned, because I have taught my sons to be polite and considerate to people around them. My son who is 10 years old, consistently gives his seat up for ladies and old people in the metro, holds open doors for people who need help in restaurants, dr. office, school etc - and I am filled with pride.

No, politeness and consideration are not old-fashioned. However, some of your ideas of what constitutes politeness/consideration may be old-fashioned. For example, it is no longer part of polite behavior for somebody to give up their seat on the Metro to somebody else merely because the first person is a male person and the second person is a female person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.

Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.

Another inner eyeroll. I grew up in the South, and it's respectful, that's all, not oppressive.

Serious question. Did white kids say it to black adults? Especially in the 60s and 70s? What about now?

Now, do white kids say it to white and black adults? To teachers or parents? Yes, but probably not to random strangers. In the 60s and 70s, I wasn't alive then so I couldn't tell you.

White southerner here. Born in 70s. My parents explicitly taught me that it was particularly important to remember to say ma'am and sir to African Americans. They were more forgiving if I forgot with white adults.