Why are engineers so arrogant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't mean to be arrogant. We are just used to dealing with questions that have a right answer. Because we want to get to that right answer, we learn to speak very bluntly to each other, knowing that others will not be offended because they too want to get to the right answer. However, once you move away from the sciences, many things do not have just one right answer. Sometimes they don't have any right answer. The blunt speech we learn to use at our work then doesn't serve us well.

I think this way overstates the certainty and objectivity of both science and engineering...most progress is made on hunches even in these areas. I think bluntness that borders on rudeness is just a cultural thing that no one cares to change. You can be direct without being rude...not all scientists and engineers are.

--signed, woman with advanced degrees in Physics and in Engineering

Your post, though, is evidence on my side.

--signed, woman with a Ph.D. in Physics and a very high salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think lawyers are the most arrogant. That is almost the definition of their job.

Lawyers are liars

[Anonymous]

I know many economists holding a PhD and most of them are so arrogant even with their wives and children.

[Anonymous]

Agricultural engineers are down to earth people, I never met an arrogant...yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't found engineers to be overly arrogant. Doctors, especially surgeons - yikes.

Yeah, what is up with surgeons?

You need gobs of confidence to cut into people and sew them back up again in better shape than they were. That confidence sometimes slips into the rest of their life. Same goes for pilots.

What is the difference between God and a surgeon?














God doesn't think he is a surgeon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't found engineers to be overly arrogant. Doctors, especially surgeons - yikes.

+1 -- FWIW -- I'm the mom of 2 budding engineers (now in college) whose grandfather -- my dad -- is a surgeon

and, BTW, at the university my kids attend, there are lots of socially adept engineering profs and students, both male and female -- they're geeks, but not nerds, and actually, quite a few of them are athletic, outdoorsy types

Agreed. I work with a lot of doctors and holy crap! Painfully arrogant, so many of them.

Engineers, not so much. But I have a bias, since my husband's a very geeky engineer.

The difference is that we (engineers) don't get paid a damned thing and doctors do.
Working 8 years, masters degree, 70 hour weeks - salary is less than a teacher and certainly no OT, no bonus of any kind and no summers off.
Busted my ass in school too.
It's not like anyone realizes what you do either, even if it's a matter of national importance.
Engineers can be arrogant but often just to each other (which is a pain) but to others? Not sure I notice that
but maybe the arrogance comes in place of a decent wage.
(And if you don't like your wage - some guy/gal from India will do your work for cheap until he gets deported)

I have to disagree. I am a scientist (not an engineer, but the salaries are similar in my field vs. EE). I make more -- much more than any public school teacher. We hire people with MS's at about 75K -80K, and PhD's at about 100K. I am making closer to 200K.

That is decent money.

Wow. I'm a physicist, top schools, barely pulling 100k. Wish I knew where you were...I'd come work for you!

How much experience? Can you bring in your own work/market yourself?

For me, I am cleared, 20 years experience (post PhD), and I am able to define solutions to critical problems -- which leads to larger scale systems. Generally, my ideas bring in about 5 mil per year in revenue (not all to me, of course).

[Anonymous]

I come from a family of engineers and/or artists - basically you are either an engineer or an artist type so my engineer brother has not only a high IQ but also a great EQ which makes him soar above his engineering co-workers because he isn't arrogant and can speak to plant directors/customers etc in plain English. He moved up quickly as a result. I think this can be rare though. My dad is also an engineer and never has been arrogant so they do exist.

My writer brother once tracked down one half of the family who broke off and moved to TX after they immigrated to the US from Ireland and the guy he talked to said "we're all engineers on this side of the family" so I do believe it's partly genetic as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm married to an engineer and I think many of them are just socially awkward and it can come off as arrogant.

So true - if they offend you they likely have no clue that they've done anything. I worked with a ton of old school broadcast tv engineers - they had no social grace. I could t be offended by anything they said because they didn't mean it and has no clue. My favorite one wore a calculator watch?

My DH is a software engineer and he would agree with this. He dislikes engineers who are too engineery. But then he also has great impatience for anyone inefficient/incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have to disagree. I am a scientist (not an engineer, but the salaries are similar in my field vs. EE). I make more -- much more than any public school teacher. We hire people with MS's at about 75K -80K, and PhD's at about 100K. I am making closer to 200K.

That is decent money.

Wow. I'm a physicist, top schools, barely pulling 100k. Wish I knew where you were...I'd come work for you!

How much experience? Can you bring in your own work/market yourself?

For me, I am cleared, 20 years experience (post PhD), and I am able to define solutions to critical problems -- which leads to larger scale systems. Generally, my ideas bring in about 5 mil per year in revenue (not all to me, of course).

Yeah, but which company and industry? Are we talking big pharm here or something? Dupont? Oil?

A maxed out GS14 is about the highest I ever see scientists go, and that's rare. Usually GS13 unless they go admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have to disagree. I am a scientist (not an engineer, but the salaries are similar in my field vs. EE). I make more -- much more than any public school teacher. We hire people with MS's at about 75K -80K, and PhD's at about 100K. I am making closer to 200K.

That is decent money.

Wow. I'm a physicist, top schools, barely pulling 100k. Wish I knew where you were...I'd come work for you!

How much experience? Can you bring in your own work/market yourself?

For me, I am cleared, 20 years experience (post PhD), and I am able to define solutions to critical problems -- which leads to larger scale systems. Generally, my ideas bring in about 5 mil per year in revenue (not all to me, of course).

Yeah, but which company and industry? Are we talking big pharm here or something? Dupont? Oil?

A maxed out GS14 is about the highest I ever see scientists go, and that's rare. Usually GS13 unless they go admin.

Since the 90's, the gov't outsources most science, as they can not pay competitive wages. I make significantly more than a GS 15 step 10. I understand that they have more security, but most of the real work is done by companies.

[Anonymous]

Lots of GS 15 and SES Engineers and Scientists. There just aren't that many people in those grades at all. I've only worked in technical organizations, and you find them there. Some don't move to those levels on purpose because they don't want to stop doing technical work, and most GS15 or SES positions are managerial. That said, there are a few running around that are still non-managerial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm married to an engineer and I think many of them are just socially awkward and it can come off as arrogant.

Hi friend, I'm in the same boat. I've been at a "party" before where I was seriously one of 2 or 3 females out of 25, at DH coworkers home. Some come off SO weirdly arrogant and awkward at the same time, because the field definitely attracts its share of socially clueless men

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually find engineers to be very down to earth people. The opposite of arrogant.

Lawyers are arrogant in my opinion.

+1

My boyfriend is an engineer, along with many of his friends, none of whom I would call arrogant or self important

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't found engineers to be overly arrogant. Doctors, especially surgeons - yikes.

+1 -- FWIW -- I'm the mom of 2 budding engineers (now in college) whose grandfather -- my dad -- is a surgeon

and, BTW, at the university my kids attend, there are lots of socially adept engineering profs and students, both male and female -- they're geeks, but not nerds, and actually, quite a few of them are athletic, outdoorsy types

Ha! They mustn't attend MIT.

Exactly. Especially if they got their PhDs at MIT. Of course, some are fine people. But proceed with caution. And parents, be especially careful of any alumni interviews your children accept as part of MIT recruitment. I think this is the core of the self-perpetuating MIT arrogance problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't found engineers to be overly arrogant. Doctors, especially surgeons - yikes.

+1 -- FWIW -- I'm the mom of 2 budding engineers (now in college) whose grandfather -- my dad -- is a surgeon

and, BTW, at the university my kids attend, there are lots of socially adept engineering profs and students, both male and female -- they're geeks, but not nerds, and actually, quite a few of them are athletic, outdoorsy types

Agreed. I work with a lot of doctors and holy crap! Painfully arrogant, so many of them.

Engineers, not so much. But I have a bias, since my husband's a very geeky engineer.

The difference is that we (engineers) don't get paid a damned thing and doctors do.
Working 8 years, masters degree, 70 hour weeks - salary is less than a teacher and certainly no OT, no bonus of any kind and no summers off.
Busted my ass in school too.
It's not like anyone realizes what you do either, even if it's a matter of national importance.
Engineers can be arrogant but often just to each other (which is a pain) but to others? Not sure I notice that
but maybe the arrogance comes in place of a decent wage.
(And if you don't like your wage - some guy/gal from India will do your work for cheap until he gets deported)

I have to disagree. I am a scientist (not an engineer, but the salaries are similar in my field vs. EE). I make more -- much more than any public school teacher. We hire people with MS's at about 75K -80K, and PhD's at about 100K. I am making closer to 200K.

That is decent money.

Wow. I'm a physicist, top schools, barely pulling 100k. Wish I knew where you were...I'd come work for you!

Physicists don't make jack. I always wince when friends tell me their offspring are studying physics in college. It's a GREAT education, but don't plan on it as a career track.