'Socially motived" children with ASD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our 5 yr old HFA DS is just like the prior two posters children - desiring of social interaction but unable to execute like a NT child. It is heart wrenching. He has no friends. I watch how his direct peers react to him - for the most part like an outlier. They call him "baby", "slowpoke", and other names on almost a daily basis at school. He has no friends. He comes home almost every day talking about how someone slighted him. It is not the other child's fault - he just cannot communicate with them effectively even though he desperately desires to do so, and he has an extremely thin skin. Anyone that does not think this is HFA/Aspergers should read Tony Attwood's book. We had one of the most well thought of neuropsychiatrists in the area confirm that he is "not a close case", but clearly HFA.

Does your child have an IEP? Your school can help with social issues. No one should be calling your child names. Your post is so sad.

Ask your son's teacher to match him up with a buddy or buddies. Ask the teachers who will be a good fit to invite for play dates and schedule them.

Does your school run a social skills group? If your school has a counselor, reach out to them for help. Our school counselor uses both the Unstuck and On Target and the Superflex curriculum for kids with social issues.

All kids with ASD need to be explicitly taught social skills so your school should provide pragmatic speech therapy at a minimum.

It should be easy for them to arrange a lunch bunch group to help kids with social issues. Ask the teachers to arrange one.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our 5 yr old HFA DS is just like the prior two posters children - desiring of social interaction but unable to execute like a NT child. It is heart wrenching. He has no friends. I watch how his direct peers react to him - for the most part like an outlier. They call him "baby", "slowpoke", and other names on almost a daily basis at school. He has no friends. He comes home almost every day talking about how someone slighted him. It is not the other child's fault - he just cannot communicate with them effectively even though he desperately desires to do so, and he has an extremely thin skin. Anyone that does not think this is HFA/Aspergers should read Tony Attwood's book. We had one of the most well thought of neuropsychiatrists in the area confirm that he is "not a close case", but clearly HFA.

Does your child have an IEP? Your school can help with social issues. No one should be calling your child names. Your post is so sad.

Ask your son's teacher to match him up with a buddy or buddies. Ask the teachers who will be a good fit to invite for play dates and schedule them.

Does your school run a social skills group? If your school has a counselor, reach out to them for help. Our school counselor uses both the Unstuck and On Target and the Superflex curriculum for kids with social issues.

All kids with ASD need to be explicitly taught social skills so your school should provide pragmatic speech therapy at a minimum.

It should be easy for them to arrange a lunch bunch group to help kids with social issues. Ask the teachers to arrange one.

Good luck!

When my DS was in K, he was in an inclusive classroom with 17 kids with a head teacher, assistant teacher and a bilingual sp Ed teacher. This sp Ed teacher was also DS's case manager and followed the kids with IEPs to 1st grade. She was wonderful. This is at an immersion language charter.

Public schools can provide a lot of supports for HFA if they want to. Ask the school to help.

[Anonymous]

^Also, in prek4 our sp Ed coordinator had a talk about "differences" and how it is not acceptable to call other kids names. This lesson was considered important enough that the kids got the talk in English when prek at our school is 100% in the immersion language.

The lesson must have stuck bc DS with ASD/ADHD has never been called a name.

Anyway, demand more from your school. If it is a good school, they will want to support ALL their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly what we were told. I will admit that when DS's preschool teacher indicated that something was "off", I was completely taken by surprise. DS had been a very easy baby and had modeled in NYC with a major modeling agency. Worked well with photographers.

So I did not believe her until I went to observe myself. I couldn't believe my eyes: I barely recognized my kid. Was not engaging or participating at all in the classroom. Wandering around aimlessly opening drawers and stuff during free play.

So yes, I would say that DS's ASD was impacting him severely.

Is it possible he no longer fits the ASD criteria? If you got him re-evaluated today do you believe he'd get a diagnosis? BTW, it is nice to hear about a child that is doing so well. This is how interventions are supposed to work!

He had a neuropsych eval with Dr Black a yr ago. Found ADHD, combined type, in addition to the ASD. DS still qualifies for an ASD diagnosis.

But it turns out most of DS's issues stem from the ADHD not ASD. Once he was treated for the ADHD, everything improved especially the social and behavior issues. Dr Black and our psychiatrist told me this was what they had hoped once the ADHD was treated.

At this time last yr, DS was about to get funding for SN without going through due process due to behavior. Cannot believe the turn around.

That's too bad either you got the wrong diagnosis/advice early on or something happened that your son had to wait for treatment. If he had that good of a turn around, one has to question if it is ASD as the primary issue when you are saying it is really ADHD.

Exactly. This poster's child only needed an IEP and all the child's problems have gone away!

I've never run into any other parent who had it this easy. There's something very wrong with either the diagnosis, or her presentation of her child's issues.

Not all parents are aware as many things are considered normal. I either got blown off, which is why we entered private therapy, and then they went extreme. We, like this poster, have had several diagnosis, none I think are correct except his speech pathologist who actually spends the time with him. His teachers do not get him and underestimate him. Diagnosis and treatment is a fine art and few have it. We should be looking at how kids present and meet their needs rather than slapping a label on the, mainly for money. Glad it turned around for her child and luckily he is young enough where they got it right, but sad to think how many kids are misdiagnosed and not getting the right services. We were forced so many services that made no impact as it was the wrong service.

True ASD do not have great turn around if that symptomatic. Slow and steady with lots of school and outside supports but ASD cannot be cured. If it can be, it was the wrong diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly what we were told. I will admit that when DS's preschool teacher indicated that something was "off", I was completely taken by surprise. DS had been a very easy baby and had modeled in NYC with a major modeling agency. Worked well with photographers.

So I did not believe her until I went to observe myself. I couldn't believe my eyes: I barely recognized my kid. Was not engaging or participating at all in the classroom. Wandering around aimlessly opening drawers and stuff during free play.

So yes, I would say that DS's ASD was impacting him severely.

Is it possible he no longer fits the ASD criteria? If you got him re-evaluated today do you believe he'd get a diagnosis? BTW, it is nice to hear about a child that is doing so well. This is how interventions are supposed to work!

He had a neuropsych eval with Dr Black a yr ago. Found ADHD, combined type, in addition to the ASD. DS still qualifies for an ASD diagnosis.

But it turns out most of DS's issues stem from the ADHD not ASD. Once he was treated for the ADHD, everything improved especially the social and behavior issues. Dr Black and our psychiatrist told me this was what they had hoped once the ADHD was treated.

At this time last yr, DS was about to get funding for SN without going through due process due to behavior. Cannot believe the turn around.

That's too bad either you got the wrong diagnosis/advice early on or something happened that your son had to wait for treatment. If he had that good of a turn around, one has to question if it is ASD as the primary issue when you are saying it is really ADHD.

Exactly. This poster's child only needed an IEP and all the child's problems have gone away!

I've never run into any other parent who had it this easy. There's something very wrong with either the diagnosis, or her presentation of her child's issues.

My kid has both ASD/ADHD. He has an IEP and gets a lot of supports/services. The neuropsych eval helped to pinpoint all his issues and we are very lucky to have a very supportive school. It's been a lot of work for DS.

If it upsets you that some people get a good outcome with an ASD/ADHD diagnosis then that is your problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly what we were told. I will admit that when DS's preschool teacher indicated that something was "off", I was completely taken by surprise. DS had been a very easy baby and had modeled in NYC with a major modeling agency. Worked well with photographers.

So I did not believe her until I went to observe myself. I couldn't believe my eyes: I barely recognized my kid. Was not engaging or participating at all in the classroom. Wandering around aimlessly opening drawers and stuff during free play.

So yes, I would say that DS's ASD was impacting him severely.

Is it possible he no longer fits the ASD criteria? If you got him re-evaluated today do you believe he'd get a diagnosis? BTW, it is nice to hear about a child that is doing so well. This is how interventions are supposed to work!

He had a neuropsych eval with Dr Black a yr ago. Found ADHD, combined type, in addition to the ASD. DS still qualifies for an ASD diagnosis.

But it turns out most of DS's issues stem from the ADHD not ASD. Once he was treated for the ADHD, everything improved especially the social and behavior issues. Dr Black and our psychiatrist told me this was what they had hoped once the ADHD was treated.

At this time last yr, DS was about to get funding for SN without going through due process due to behavior. Cannot believe the turn around.

That's too bad either you got the wrong diagnosis/advice early on or something happened that your son had to wait for treatment. If he had that good of a turn around, one has to question if it is ASD as the primary issue when you are saying it is really ADHD.

DS was diagnosed with ASD at 4. Got IEP. Was doing great, no problems in prek4, k, 1st grade.

In 2nd grade, our Sp Ed department was completely overhauled. DS got a brand new Sp Ed teacher with zero experience as a SN teacher. All hell broke loose. Got behavioral issues that never appeared at any other time.

Got neuropsych and revised IEP, FBA/BIP, Sp Ed teacher duties taken over by his head English teacher (sp Ed teacher left school after the year). Treatment for ADHD.

Everything running smooth again in 3rd grade.

Should add that we always had great IEPs starting from the time DS got diagnosed with ASD at 4. Dr. Shapiro our dev ped and our Ed consultant attended the IEP meetings from the get go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is informative: It's more detailed that the DSM standard fare, and provides examples of what they consider to be abnormal socially:

https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%28ASD.Guidelines%29Feb2013.pdf



Absence of interest in others
?
Lack of interest in peers
?
Withdrawn; aloof; in own world
?

?
Limited interest in others;
?
Unaware or oblivious to children or adults
?
Limited interaction with others
?
Prefers solitary activities

Ah yes, selective quoting. You forgot it starts with "ranging from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit different social contexts through difficulties in sharing imaginative play and in making friends to an apparent absence of interest in people" and then lists 3 or 4 dozen other things posters have been saying, with these as the examples of "absence of interest in people"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is informative: It's more detailed that the DSM standard fare, and provides examples of what they consider to be abnormal socially:

https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%28ASD.Guidelines%29Feb2013.pdf



Absence of interest in others
?
Lack of interest in peers
?
Withdrawn; aloof; in own world
?

?
Limited interest in others;
?
Unaware or oblivious to children or adults
?
Limited interaction with others
?
Prefers solitary activities

Ah yes, selective quoting. You forgot it starts with "ranging from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit different social contexts through difficulties in sharing imaginative play and in making friends to an apparent absence of interest in people" and then lists 3 or 4 dozen other things posters have been saying, with these as the examples of "absence of interest in people"

This article is very informative but hard to quote from. It won't really let you copy.

Why don't you explain more about what supports your point, because I don't see it.

All the examples given are along the lines of what I quoted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly what we were told. I will admit that when DS's preschool teacher indicated that something was "off", I was completely taken by surprise. DS had been a very easy baby and had modeled in NYC with a major modeling agency. Worked well with photographers.

So I did not believe her until I went to observe myself. I couldn't believe my eyes: I barely recognized my kid. Was not engaging or participating at all in the classroom. Wandering around aimlessly opening drawers and stuff during free play.

So yes, I would say that DS's ASD was impacting him severely.

Is it possible he no longer fits the ASD criteria? If you got him re-evaluated today do you believe he'd get a diagnosis? BTW, it is nice to hear about a child that is doing so well. This is how interventions are supposed to work!

He had a neuropsych eval with Dr Black a yr ago. Found ADHD, combined type, in addition to the ASD. DS still qualifies for an ASD diagnosis.

But it turns out most of DS's issues stem from the ADHD not ASD. Once he was treated for the ADHD, everything improved especially the social and behavior issues. Dr Black and our psychiatrist told me this was what they had hoped once the ADHD was treated.

At this time last yr, DS was about to get funding for SN without going through due process due to behavior. Cannot believe the turn around.

That's too bad either you got the wrong diagnosis/advice early on or something happened that your son had to wait for treatment. If he had that good of a turn around, one has to question if it is ASD as the primary issue when you are saying it is really ADHD.

Exactly. This poster's child only needed an IEP and all the child's problems have gone away!

I've never run into any other parent who had it this easy. There's something very wrong with either the diagnosis, or her presentation of her child's issues.

My kid has both ASD/ADHD. He has an IEP and gets a lot of supports/services. The neuropsych eval helped to pinpoint all his issues and we are very lucky to have a very supportive school. It's been a lot of work for DS.

If it upsets you that some people get a good outcome with an ASD/ADHD diagnosis then that is your problem.

I'm skeptical that an IEP would make autism "disappear." Also, your son's ability to quell his obsession among peers also suggests a level of functioning that seems beyond Asperger's.

What upsets me, though, is your constant appearance on threads where parents are trying to figure out if their child is showing signs of autism. Your experience is not typical, and yet you present it as such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is informative: It's more detailed that the DSM standard fare, and provides examples of what they consider to be abnormal socially:

https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%28ASD.Guidelines%29Feb2013.pdf



Absence of interest in others
?
Lack of interest in peers
?
Withdrawn; aloof; in own world
?

?
Limited interest in others;
?
Unaware or oblivious to children or adults
?
Limited interaction with others
?
Prefers solitary activities

Ah yes, selective quoting. You forgot it starts with "ranging from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit different social contexts through difficulties in sharing imaginative play and in making friends to an apparent absence of interest in people" and then lists 3 or 4 dozen other things posters have been saying, with these as the examples of "absence of interest in people"

OK so, what I am trying to say is that I question the whole notion of a disorder that can include both children who are very socially motivated, and children who have an absence of interest in people. I was quoting those parts of the DSM 5 that include lack of interest in people, not arguing that the DSM 5 requires lack of interest. My whole point is to question the DSM definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Should add that getting diagnosed and treated for the ADHD helped greatly in every aspect especially socially. I think DS was finally able to use what he learned in social skills classes as well as pay attention to other people instead of fixating on doors, lighting fixtures, elevators, etc.

Can I ask what social classes you had for your DS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been awhile so I don't recall exactly what we were told. I will admit that when DS's preschool teacher indicated that something was "off", I was completely taken by surprise. DS had been a very easy baby and had modeled in NYC with a major modeling agency. Worked well with photographers.

So I did not believe her until I went to observe myself. I couldn't believe my eyes: I barely recognized my kid. Was not engaging or participating at all in the classroom. Wandering around aimlessly opening drawers and stuff during free play.

So yes, I would say that DS's ASD was impacting him severely.

Is it possible he no longer fits the ASD criteria? If you got him re-evaluated today do you believe he'd get a diagnosis? BTW, it is nice to hear about a child that is doing so well. This is how interventions are supposed to work!

He had a neuropsych eval with Dr Black a yr ago. Found ADHD, combined type, in addition to the ASD. DS still qualifies for an ASD diagnosis.

But it turns out most of DS's issues stem from the ADHD not ASD. Once he was treated for the ADHD, everything improved especially the social and behavior issues. Dr Black and our psychiatrist told me this was what they had hoped once the ADHD was treated.

At this time last yr, DS was about to get funding for SN without going through due process due to behavior. Cannot believe the turn around.

That's too bad either you got the wrong diagnosis/advice early on or something happened that your son had to wait for treatment. If he had that good of a turn around, one has to question if it is ASD as the primary issue when you are saying it is really ADHD.

Exactly. This poster's child only needed an IEP and all the child's problems have gone away!

I've never run into any other parent who had it this easy. There's something very wrong with either the diagnosis, or her presentation of her child's issues.

My kid has both ASD/ADHD. He has an IEP and gets a lot of supports/services. The neuropsych eval helped to pinpoint all his issues and we are very lucky to have a very supportive school. It's been a lot of work for DS.

If it upsets you that some people get a good outcome with an ASD/ADHD diagnosis then that is your problem.

I'm skeptical that an IEP would make autism "disappear." Also, your son's ability to quell his obsession among peers also suggests a level of functioning that seems beyond Asperger's.

What upsets me, though, is your constant appearance on threads where parents are trying to figure out if their child is showing signs of autism. Your experience is not typical, and yet you present it as such.

And I am tired of you constantly questioning our diagnosis. Are you even a doctor? You have certainly never met my kid or anyone else's and you have a very skewed view about what autism is and how it presents. Have never been in a clinical setting or have a phD but you seem perfectly comfortable diagnosing other people from descriptions they write on the Internet.

This is a parent forum and I have every right to write about my kid. You seem to think that bc my kid does not fit into your box, any descriptions of my kid and his symptoms should not be here?!?

If I wanted advice from dr Google, I can google it myself. My kid has real doctors and I don't need you quoting the DSM about how he cannot possibly have ASD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Should add that getting diagnosed and treated for the ADHD helped greatly in every aspect especially socially. I think DS was finally able to use what he learned in social skills classes as well as pay attention to other people instead of fixating on doors, lighting fixtures, elevators, etc.

Can I ask what social classes you had for your DS?

He has had speech therapy for pragmatics and social skills classes since prek4 at school. In prek, his school had 4x a wk social skills during nap time. Currently in 3rd grade, he has social skills with the school counselor using the super flex curriculum, lunch bunch on Fridays and pragmatic speech, all 1x a wk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is informative: It's more detailed that the DSM standard fare, and provides examples of what they consider to be abnormal socially:

https://depts.washington.edu/dbpeds/Screening%20Tools/DSM-5%28ASD.Guidelines%29Feb2013.pdf



Absence of interest in others
?
Lack of interest in peers
?
Withdrawn; aloof; in own world
?

?
Limited interest in others;
?
Unaware or oblivious to children or adults
?
Limited interaction with others
?
Prefers solitary activities

Ah yes, selective quoting. You forgot it starts with "ranging from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit different social contexts through difficulties in sharing imaginative play and in making friends to an apparent absence of interest in people" and then lists 3 or 4 dozen other things posters have been saying, with these as the examples of "absence of interest in people"

OK so, what I am trying to say is that I question the whole notion of a disorder that can include both children who are very socially motivated, and children who have an absence of interest in people. I was quoting those parts of the DSM 5 that include lack of interest in people, not arguing that the DSM 5 requires lack of interest. My whole point is to question the DSM definition.

Well, that about says it all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Should add that getting diagnosed and treated for the ADHD helped greatly in every aspect especially socially. I think DS was finally able to use what he learned in social skills classes as well as pay attention to other people instead of fixating on doors, lighting fixtures, elevators, etc.

Can I ask what social classes you had for your DS?

He has had speech therapy for pragmatics and social skills classes since prek4 at school. In prek, his school had 4x a wk social skills during nap time. Currently in 3rd grade, he has social skills with the school counselor using the super flex curriculum, lunch bunch on Fridays and pragmatic speech, all 1x a wk.

Want to add that DS is in an inclusive classroom meaning there is usually a Sp Ed teacher in the room. Our school always has an even number of classrooms due to the language immersion so each classroom is paired and the Sp Ed teacher switches between the two classrooms as needed. Also, my DS gets 20 hrs of Sp Ed support a week via the IEP - probably more than any other kid at our school. DS tests above grade level academically across the board so almost all the Sp Ed support is for social and behavioral issues which reflect his IEP goals. The school has been wonderful about providing the supports DS needs.