'Socially motived" children with ASD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster who said DS is "highly socially motivated". This was pointed out to us as a strength during ADOS/ADI-R testing at Children's when DS, 4, was diagnosed with ASD/Asperger's. Our neuropsych, Dr. Black, also pointed this out as a strength at 7 when DS was diagnosed with ADHD, combined type, and the ASD was confirmed. DS has normal eye contact.

It means that DS is social and likes to be around people. He is an extrovert and not shy but has trouble with nonverbal communication and pragmatics.

DS has had an IEP and extensive social skills training and pragmatic speech therapy since he was 4. Now at 8, DS has friends including a best friend and is the leader of his group of friends at school.

DS is fully mainstreamed at a language immersion charter and has no academic issues. His IEP is almost entirely about social communication.

what is his repetitive behavior? You post here a lot and it is hard to believe your child really has autism, or he must have such a mild case that it is more like a personality quirk.

Dr. Shapiro was our developmental pediatrician and Dr. Black is his neuropsych. They both diagnosed ASD so it is not a personality quirk.

He has obsessive interests in elevators currently and repetitive behaviors, vocal stims mostly but only when he plays video games.

Repetitive behaviors have to be more severe than that to qualify at even the Level 1 severity level.

Yeah, his repetitive behaviors have evolved over the years and was never very severe. His obsessive interests is what is most noticible although he knows not to speak about his elevator obsession to peers.

Anyway, DS has had a psychoed and neuropsych eval, ADOS and Dr Shapiro and they all diagnosed ASD/Asperger's so they obviously think DS is on the spectrum as does DS's school.

Anyway, DS is doing really well so that is what counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By definition an autism diagnosis requires a serious deficit in social interactions. So it is hard to understand how a "very socially motivated" child would fit in. I do think this is part of diagnosis-creep. Interestingly, I read a Phd thesis by a sociologist who found that basically every single child evaluated by the autism center she researched was given a diagnosis - this suggests to me that there is a bias towards diagnosing once a kid gets in the "system" even if the problem is mild or something else altogether.

Maybe bc you can have "serious deficits in social interaction" and still be "very socially motivated"? Especially when they are young and haven't received a lot of social rejection yet.

Yeah, this is why I really question the utility of an autism "diagnosis." It does not seem that helpful or accurate to group together kids who love people and love to interact, with kids who are socially uninterested.

That is why it is a spectrum now. Read Neurotribes if you haven't already. It was very helpful in understanding why the spectrum came about.

My point is that I doubt the whole spectrum idea. It's not like having stage III or IV cancer. It seems like lumping together different things altogether.

[Anonymous]

But I see at least one poster routinely saying that being socially motivated doesn't rule out autism.

I think it depends on what you mean by socially motivated. My ASD son is unable to behave in a way necessary to have friends his own age. He does have some younger boys from the neighborhood who are "friends" in a certain sense (they will play video games or pokemon from time to time). I think he enjoys spending time with those boys from time to time, and wants that to continue, so in that sense I guess he is socially motivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By definition an autism diagnosis requires a serious deficit in social interactions. So it is hard to understand how a "very socially motivated" child would fit in. I do think this is part of diagnosis-creep. Interestingly, I read a Phd thesis by a sociologist who found that basically every single child evaluated by the autism center she researched was given a diagnosis - this suggests to me that there is a bias towards diagnosing once a kid gets in the "system" even if the problem is mild or something else altogether.

Maybe bc you can have "serious deficits in social interaction" and still be "very socially motivated"? Especially when they are young and haven't received a lot of social rejection yet.

Yeah, this is why I really question the utility of an autism "diagnosis." It does not seem that helpful or accurate to group together kids who love people and love to interact, with kids who are socially uninterested.

That is why it is a spectrum now. Read Neurotribes if you haven't already. It was very helpful in understanding why the spectrum came about.

My point is that I doubt the whole spectrum idea. It's not like having stage III or IV cancer. It seems like lumping together different things altogether.

Many people will agree with you but the newest DSM-5 is what it is. I like the fact that it gets my kid an IEP and help with social issues at school. Even 5 yrs ago, entire states like CA and WI did not give IEPs to kids diagnosed with Asperger's. Having a spectrum opened up services to a lot of kids who previously would not have gotten any help at all.

[Anonymous]

Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

People often use the idea that a child is autism is not socially motivated as an excuse for exclusion. They think that because a child isn't successful at seeking out social interactions, or might even have given up seeking out social interactions as a sign that they don't care, or that their feelings aren't hurt by exclusion. Excluding a child with an ASD on the grounds that they don't care is like holding your party in attic and then assuming your quadriplegic friend must not have wanted to be there since they didn't show up.

[Anonymous]

Or might be socially motivated but lack social awareness (or as noted the ability/skills to successfully interact) - so desires to be involved/interact, likes being around peers or people, but fails to pick up on social cues, other people's expressions, fails to respond to them, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

People often use the idea that a child is autism is not socially motivated as an excuse for exclusion. They think that because a child isn't successful at seeking out social interactions, or might even have given up seeking out social interactions as a sign that they don't care, or that their feelings aren't hurt by exclusion. Excluding a child with an ASD on the grounds that they don't care is like holding your party in attic and then assuming your quadriplegic friend must not have wanted to be there since they didn't show up.

It seems to me that there is a qualitative difference between kids who have little interest in people, and kids who just lack social skills. That does not seem like a spectrum to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

What you are describing, though, is that it's really all about them, not the other person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

People often use the idea that a child is autism is not socially motivated as an excuse for exclusion. They think that because a child isn't successful at seeking out social interactions, or might even have given up seeking out social interactions as a sign that they don't care, or that their feelings aren't hurt by exclusion. Excluding a child with an ASD on the grounds that they don't care is like holding your party in attic and then assuming your quadriplegic friend must not have wanted to be there since they didn't show up.

It seems to me that there is a qualitative difference between kids who have little interest in people, and kids who just lack social skills. That does not seem like a spectrum to me.

What kids are you talking about who have little interest in people? Not having interest in people is not a symptom of ASD. Not having social skills or awareness is the core symptom of ASD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

What you are describing, though, is that it's really all about them, not the other person.

I'm the one who wrote it. I'm an early elementary special ed teacher. At the ages I teach, it's all about themselves for all of the children. Kids with ASD are no different.

[Anonymous]

To PP with the child with interests in elevators,
Doesn't the DSM require the repetitive behaviors or obsessive interests to be life interfering? Everyone to some extent has these issues and a gal who loves collecting designer shoes isn't necessarily Aspie.

[Anonymous]

The spectrum encompasses kids who can't talk at all to those who are multilingual and can't stop talking...

If the question is whether you can get an ASD diagnosis when a child is highly socially motivated, the answer is "yes".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

People often use the idea that a child is autism is not socially motivated as an excuse for exclusion. They think that because a child isn't successful at seeking out social interactions, or might even have given up seeking out social interactions as a sign that they don't care, or that their feelings aren't hurt by exclusion. Excluding a child with an ASD on the grounds that they don't care is like holding your party in attic and then assuming your quadriplegic friend must not have wanted to be there since they didn't show up.

It seems to me that there is a qualitative difference between kids who have little interest in people, and kids who just lack social skills. That does not seem like a spectrum to me.

What kids are you talking about who have little interest in people? Not having interest in people is not a symptom of ASD. Not having social skills or awareness is the core symptom of ASD.

? Read the DSM 5 definition. It definitely includes lack of interest in social interaction as part of the definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socially motivated and socially skilled are two very different things.

A child with autism can be extroverted. They can enjoy the attention of peers, have warm loving relationships with their parents, and want to please their parents. Many kids with autism, are motivated by things like clear expressions of approval from an adult, and interactions with peers.

However, the same child might have trouble putting that social motivation into action. So, he might want his mother to smile and tell him good job, but be unable to figure out which behaviors make her smile. He might want to interact with his friends, but not understand that they don't want to talk about ceiling fans for an hour. He might love his teacher and have absolutely no idea why she's annoyed with him, leading him to repeat behavior that leads to the annoyance.

People often use the idea that a child is autism is not socially motivated as an excuse for exclusion. They think that because a child isn't successful at seeking out social interactions, or might even have given up seeking out social interactions as a sign that they don't care, or that their feelings aren't hurt by exclusion. Excluding a child with an ASD on the grounds that they don't care is like holding your party in attic and then assuming your quadriplegic friend must not have wanted to be there since they didn't show up.

It seems to me that there is a qualitative difference between kids who have little interest in people, and kids who just lack social skills. That does not seem like a spectrum to me.

What kids are you talking about who have little interest in people? Not having interest in people is not a symptom of ASD. Not having social skills or awareness is the core symptom of ASD.

? Read the DSM 5 definition. It definitely includes lack of interest in social interaction as part of the definition.

No it doesn't. Can you provide a quote of the language that you believe indicates a lack of interest rather than a lack of skill?

[Anonymous]

Here is one view that deficits in social motivation characterizes autism: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3329932/