Bright but not gifted children essentially being ignored?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I should point out that this is not really about reading but about word study (which her teacher insists are NOT related to one another.) I feel like her reading ability will naturally improve at her own pace, regardless of whatever random group the teacher decides to put her in.

With word study, I feel she is being artificially held back, by not having access to the more difficult word studies that her peers are doing.

OP, I am a PP who advised you to set up a conference with the teacher to go over all of the assessment data. I am taking back that advice. If you already know, without the data, that the teacher is doing it all wrong, and that you know better about your daughter and about teaching, there is no point in setting up a conference with the teacher. The teacher has more productive ways to use her time.

[Anonymous]

You keep saying that she is acing the tests. What tests are you talking about? don't they do some sort of standardized testing already in 2nd grade? Can you tell whether your daughter is at from those? It seems like at the fall conference they told you your daughter is right at grade level for reading. That does sound like she is middle of pack if not slightly below. I will definitely investigate this particularly you thing she is very bright. The top group is likely reading several grade level above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

It sounds like the kids are grouped by DRA and F&P levels. They're both individually administered reading ability tests. They test more than just decoding (which is the spelling/word group skills you keep talking about). Simply ask the teacher what her reading level is. She should easily be able to give you a number or a letter (depending on which test they use.) She should also be able to tell you the range of levels in your child's reading groups, and what skills your child is most struggling with.

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

OP, I'll say this again.Forget about getting answers from the teacher at this point. You need a meeting ( not just the regular pt conference) with counselor, teacher, specialist... This is how it works in MCPS if you want some answers. The ball is in your court now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You keep saying that she is acing the tests. What tests are you talking about? don't they do some sort of standardized testing already in 2nd grade? Can you tell whether your daughter is at from those? It seems like at the fall conference they told you your daughter is right at grade level for reading. That does sound like she is middle of pack if not slightly below. I will definitely investigate this particularly you thing she is very bright. The top group is likely reading several grade level above.

They take a word study test every Friday with that week's words. The words have to be sorted and spelled correctly. Those are the tests I am talking about. I don't understand why she basically drops down a group every year if she is not missing anything on the tests. If they are not using that as their assessment tool, what is the point of the test?

[Anonymous]

I can moderately understand concerns for reading groups. But word study? My son did not learn a new sight word at all in K and I did not say anything. He was learning writing and all the other things. Ask the teacher one more time what kind of assessment decided the grouping and then drop it. No one needs a word study group to learn more words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

It sounds like the kids are grouped by DRA and F&P levels. They're both individually administered reading ability tests. They test more than just decoding (which is the spelling/word group skills you keep talking about). Simply ask the teacher what her reading level is. She should easily be able to give you a number or a letter (depending on which test they use.) She should also be able to tell you the range of levels in your child's reading groups, and what skills your child is most struggling with.

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

OP, I'll say this again.Forget about getting answers from the teacher at this point. You need a meeting ( not just the regular pt conference) with counselor, teacher, specialist... This is how it works in MCPS if you want some answers. The ball is in your court now.

Ok thank you. I'm still waiting to hear back from the teacher about the email I wrote her Sunday laying out my concerns. Then I'll go from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

OP, I'll say this again.Forget about getting answers from the teacher at this point. You need a meeting ( not just the regular pt conference) with counselor, teacher, specialist... This is how it works in MCPS if you want some answers. The ball is in your court now.

It now turns out that OP actually wasn't given "non-answers" at the fall conference. The teacher told OP what OP's daughter's reading level is. But OP has since forgotten, and doesn't seem to consider it important information anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You keep saying that she is acing the tests. What tests are you talking about? don't they do some sort of standardized testing already in 2nd grade? Can you tell whether your daughter is at from those? It seems like at the fall conference they told you your daughter is right at grade level for reading. That does sound like she is middle of pack if not slightly below. I will definitely investigate this particularly you thing she is very bright. The top group is likely reading several grade level above.

They take a word study test every Friday with that week's words. The words have to be sorted and spelled correctly. Those are the tests I am talking about. I don't understand why she basically drops down a group every year if she is not missing anything on the tests. If they are not using that as their assessment tool, what is the point of the test?

It is possible that the other kids know more words at the beginning of the year because they read more elsewhere. How does the teacher grade your daughter on word study? Not each spelling tests, but the report card. My son gets a separate grade on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They told me her reading level at the fall conference. I forget the number now (20 maybe?) but all the teacher would say was that was "at the benchmark for first quarter" but if the other girls in her group are the same or similar level (as a group should be) why do they need to see the reading specialist?

DD does not bring reading books home this year (aside from library books she chooses.) She did bring home leveled reading books last year in first.

People might as well stop saying, "This is about your daughter, not about the other kids in the group," because you're disregarding it every time somebody says.

You're right I am. Because that is not how education works in this country. Children are forever compared with their peers. Selection for gifted programs, honors classes, AP classes, college admissions, etc. How else do you think it works?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You keep saying that she is acing the tests. What tests are you talking about? don't they do some sort of standardized testing already in 2nd grade? Can you tell whether your daughter is at from those? It seems like at the fall conference they told you your daughter is right at grade level for reading. That does sound like she is middle of pack if not slightly below. I will definitely investigate this particularly you thing she is very bright. The top group is likely reading several grade level above.

My second grader has been right on grade level with reading for the past two years.

At our school this meant he got pulled out for remediation with the reading specialist once per week last year. I would consider right at grade level to be middle to slightly below peers for our elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

OP, I'll say this again.Forget about getting answers from the teacher at this point. You need a meeting ( not just the regular pt conference) with counselor, teacher, specialist... This is how it works in MCPS if you want some answers. The ball is in your court now.

It now turns out that OP actually wasn't given "non-answers" at the fall conference. The teacher told OP what OP's daughter's reading level is. But OP has since forgotten, and doesn't seem to consider it important information anyway.

I said I was given non-answers about word study, which is true. Word study has been my primary concern all along - not sure how everyone got so fixated on the reading. DD's teacher went out of her way to say the two are NOT related. Do you disagree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You keep saying that she is acing the tests. What tests are you talking about? don't they do some sort of standardized testing already in 2nd grade? Can you tell whether your daughter is at from those? It seems like at the fall conference they told you your daughter is right at grade level for reading. That does sound like she is middle of pack if not slightly below. I will definitely investigate this particularly you thing she is very bright. The top group is likely reading several grade level above.

They take a word study test every Friday with that week's words. The words have to be sorted and spelled correctly. Those are the tests I am talking about. I don't understand why she basically drops down a group every year if she is not missing anything on the tests. If they are not using that as their assessment tool, what is the point of the test?

The reading groups are based on assessment of reading. Not spelling. You need to stop worrying about what group she is in - and find out if her reading level is progressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They told me her reading level at the fall conference. I forget the number now (20 maybe?) but all the teacher would say was that was "at the benchmark for first quarter" but if the other girls in her group are the same or similar level (as a group should be) why do they need to see the reading specialist?

DD does not bring reading books home this year (aside from library books she chooses.) She did bring home leveled reading books last year in first.

People might as well stop saying, "This is about your daughter, not about the other kids in the group," because you're disregarding it every time somebody says.

You're right I am. Because that is not how education works in this country. Children are forever compared with their peers. Selection for gifted programs, honors classes, AP classes, college admissions, etc. How else do you think it works?

wow. so you aren't worried about your child's actual progress. just that she's in the top group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

OP, I'll say this again.Forget about getting answers from the teacher at this point. You need a meeting ( not just the regular pt conference) with counselor, teacher, specialist... This is how it works in MCPS if you want some answers. The ball is in your court now.

It now turns out that OP actually wasn't given "non-answers" at the fall conference. The teacher told OP what OP's daughter's reading level is. But OP has since forgotten, and doesn't seem to consider it important information anyway.

I said I was given non-answers about word study, which is true. Word study has been my primary concern all along - not sure how everyone got so fixated on the reading. DD's teacher went out of her way to say the two are NOT related. Do you disagree?

We are fixated on reading because YOU are fixated on her reading group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They told me her reading level at the fall conference. I forget the number now (20 maybe?) but all the teacher would say was that was "at the benchmark for first quarter" but if the other girls in her group are the same or similar level (as a group should be) why do they need to see the reading specialist?

DD does not bring reading books home this year (aside from library books she chooses.) She did bring home leveled reading books last year in first.

People might as well stop saying, "This is about your daughter, not about the other kids in the group," because you're disregarding it every time somebody says.

You're right I am. Because that is not how education works in this country. Children are forever compared with their peers. Selection for gifted programs, honors classes, AP classes, college admissions, etc. How else do you think it works?

The teacher is not going to tell you anything about the other kids in the group. That is none of your business. The teacher will only talk to you about your own daughter. That is how education works in this country.

Now, do you want to find out what (if anything) is going on with your daughter in the classroom? Because it doesn't sound to me like you do. It sounds to me like you believe you already have all the information you need. That attitude won't help your daughter.