Bright but not gifted children essentially being ignored?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

It sounds like the kids are grouped by DRA and F&P levels. They're both individually administered reading ability tests. They test more than just decoding (which is the spelling/word group skills you keep talking about). Simply ask the teacher what her reading level is. She should easily be able to give you a number or a letter (depending on which test they use.) She should also be able to tell you the range of levels in your child's reading groups, and what skills your child is most struggling with.

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone. We emailed the teacher last night with our concerns in detail and have not heard back yet. I'm kind of surprised because she replies quickly about minor things. It seems like this won't be an easy fix or she would have just said so. I feel like either way it's a red flag. If she moves my daughter willingly and my daughter continues to do well, then she should have been there all this time. If she won't move my daughter and/or my daughter has significant trouble, then I think there is a disconnect between her ability and her performance, which would mean what? Learning disability? ADHD? Although she has no classic symptoms and has never been flagged...

I'll update when I hear.

You are catastrophizing. Be calm for your child and yourself. Is something else stressing you out about this child's future? This is a serious amount of stress about a child's reading group. Impossibly, many parents do not know or care what ranking of reading group their child is in.

I don't know what reading group DD is in (as it relates to the other reading groups). I'm mainly concerned that DD continues to progress. OP - is your daughter progressing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

It sounds like the kids are grouped by DRA and F&P levels. They're both individually administered reading ability tests. They test more than just decoding (which is the spelling/word group skills you keep talking about). Simply ask the teacher what her reading level is. She should easily be able to give you a number or a letter (depending on which test they use.) She should also be able to tell you the range of levels in your child's reading groups, and what skills your child is most struggling with.

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

It sounds like the kids are grouped by DRA and F&P levels. They're both individually administered reading ability tests. They test more than just decoding (which is the spelling/word group skills you keep talking about). Simply ask the teacher what her reading level is. She should easily be able to give you a number or a letter (depending on which test they use.) She should also be able to tell you the range of levels in your child's reading groups, and what skills your child is most struggling with.

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

OP here. I will do this (again.) But I asked all of these questions at the fall conference (this year and last year) and was basically given non-answers.

And I'm sorry to the PP who finds it "off-putting" that I don't agree that my daughter, who sails through homework and tests, is put into a learning group with children who are so far below grade level that they need excessive amounts of help and STILL do far worse than my daughter on graded assignments! WTH?

That is frustrating. Maybe you can elevate it if needed to the VP or P. Or as someone suggested - involve the guidance counselor. However, they generally will not tell you how your DD is doing relative to other students or groups. So if that is what you were asking - you may not get an answer. If you asked for her reading level and how they ascertained that level - you should absolutely be given an answer.

[Anonymous]

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

OP again. Also, If there are some skills that she still needs, that are for some reason holding her back, then I think it is their responsibility and duty to TELL ME THIS. Getting any info at all is like pulling teeth! That is what is making this a "fight" as you call it. They aren't telling me anything other than "she's fine" and I don't agree!

[Anonymous]

OP, you are WAY to fixated on the other kids in the class. How tye flying F do you know what their grades are or how they are performing, testing on their DRAs, or their strengtys and weaknesses?

Your only questions shoukd be about your daughter. Those other kids in her group are irrelevant to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are WAY to fixated on the other kids in the class. How tye flying F do you know what their grades are or how they are performing, testing on their DRAs, or their strengtys and weaknesses?

Your only questions shoukd be about your daughter. Those other kids in her group are irrelevant to the discussion.

OP again. What else do I have to go on? The kids who were in my daughter's word study group last year are in a different, more difficult word study group this year. Two of the girls in my daughter's word study group this year go see the reading specialist and have private tutors. Again, I didn't sleuth this information out, its widely known.

So either my daughter is slipping down in her ability (which I should have been made aware of and was not) OR my daughter is in the wrong group (and is possibly being used to bolster up these other kids, which is NOT her job) and this is a problem for a different reason. I simply want to know which of the above is the case. And no one will tell me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

This. I don't feel like you have all the information. Set up a conference.

OP again. Also, If there are some skills that she still needs, that are for some reason holding her back, then I think it is their responsibility and duty to TELL ME THIS. Getting any info at all is like pulling teeth! That is what is making this a "fight" as you call it. They aren't telling me anything other than "she's fine" and I don't agree!

OP, set up a conference. When you're setting it up, tell the teacher that your concern is that your daughter is having learning problems in school that you would like to find more about, and that you would like the teacher to have all of your daughter's reading assessment results available for the two of you to go over at the conference.

Then, at the conference, go over the reading assessment results. For each one, ask the teacher what it means, what skills the child needs for it, what the expected range is for the class, etc.

Without this information, all you have is "My daughter is really smart but she's in a reading group with dumb kids and the teacher won't move her, I don't know why." Do not go into the conference with this attitude, by the way. Also, if a reading assessment result is not what you think it should be, don't automatically assume that the result is wrong. Go in prepared to listen and learn, not attack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are WAY to fixated on the other kids in the class. How tye flying F do you know what their grades are or how they are performing, testing on their DRAs, or their strengtys and weaknesses?

Your only questions shoukd be about your daughter. Those other kids in her group are irrelevant to the discussion.

OP again. What else do I have to go on? The kids who were in my daughter's word study group last year are in a different, more difficult word study group this year. Two of the girls in my daughter's word study group this year go see the reading specialist and have private tutors. Again, I didn't sleuth this information out, its widely known.

So either my daughter is slipping down in her ability (which I should have been made aware of and was not) OR my daughter is in the wrong group (and is possibly being used to bolster up these other kids, which is NOT her job) and this is a problem for a different reason. I simply want to know which of the above is the case. And no one will tell me.

I posted above and they will not discuss the other kids or reading groups with you. What you should be able to find out is your DD's reading level and you can ask if she is in a group with others of that same reading level. I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this. Is your DD progressing in reading? Has her reading level gone up? You shouldn't be so concerned with who is in her reading group as long as SHE is making progress. That is something the school should be able to tell you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are WAY to fixated on the other kids in the class. How tye flying F do you know what their grades are or how they are performing, testing on their DRAs, or their strengtys and weaknesses?

Your only questions shoukd be about your daughter. Those other kids in her group are irrelevant to the discussion.

OP again. What else do I have to go on? The kids who were in my daughter's word study group last year are in a different, more difficult word study group this year. Two of the girls in my daughter's word study group this year go see the reading specialist and have private tutors. Again, I didn't sleuth this information out, its widely known.

So either my daughter is slipping down in her ability (which I should have been made aware of and was not) OR my daughter is in the wrong group (and is possibly being used to bolster up these other kids, which is NOT her job) and this is a problem for a different reason. I simply want to know which of the above is the case. And no one will tell me.

I posted above and they will not discuss the other kids or reading groups with you. What you should be able to find out is your DD's reading level and you can ask if she is in a group with others of that same reading level. I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this. Is your DD progressing in reading? Has her reading level gone up? You shouldn't be so concerned with who is in her reading group as long as SHE is making progress. That is something the school should be able to tell you

OP here. I'm not positive but I don't really think so. Again, she gets 100% on the tests but I don't see any progression of difficulty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are WAY to fixated on the other kids in the class. How tye flying F do you know what their grades are or how they are performing, testing on their DRAs, or their strengtys and weaknesses?

Your only questions shoukd be about your daughter. Those other kids in her group are irrelevant to the discussion.

OP again. What else do I have to go on? The kids who were in my daughter's word study group last year are in a different, more difficult word study group this year. Two of the girls in my daughter's word study group this year go see the reading specialist and have private tutors. Again, I didn't sleuth this information out, its widely known.

So either my daughter is slipping down in her ability (which I should have been made aware of and was not) OR my daughter is in the wrong group (and is possibly being used to bolster up these other kids, which is NOT her job) and this is a problem for a different reason. I simply want to know which of the above is the case. And no one will tell me.

I posted above and they will not discuss the other kids or reading groups with you. What you should be able to find out is your DD's reading level and you can ask if she is in a group with others of that same reading level. I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this. Is your DD progressing in reading? Has her reading level gone up? You shouldn't be so concerned with who is in her reading group as long as SHE is making progress. That is something the school should be able to tell you

OP here. I'm not positive but I don't really think so. Again, she gets 100% on the tests but I don't see any progression of difficulty.

Have they not given you her reading level? We are in MCPS and get a reading level on each report card. Also I can see the reading levels on the books that DD brings home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I posted above and they will not discuss the other kids or reading groups with you. What you should be able to find out is your DD's reading level and you can ask if she is in a group with others of that same reading level. I'm not sure why you are so fixated on this. Is your DD progressing in reading? Has her reading level gone up? You shouldn't be so concerned with who is in her reading group as long as SHE is making progress. That is something the school should be able to tell you

OP here. I'm not positive but I don't really think so. Again, she gets 100% on the tests but I don't see any progression of difficulty.

"Has her reading level gone up?" is a question you need the reading assessment results to answer. You can't answer that question based on your own opinion. The teacher assesses your daughter's reading level regularly. Has your daughter's assessed reading level gone up?

[Anonymous]

They told me her reading level at the fall conference. I forget the number now (20 maybe?) but all the teacher would say was that was "at the benchmark for first quarter" but if the other girls in her group are the same or similar level (as a group should be) why do they need to see the reading specialist?

DD does not bring reading books home this year (aside from library books she chooses.) She did bring home leveled reading books last year in first.

[Anonymous]

OP again. I should point out that this is not really about reading but about word study (which her teacher insists are NOT related to one another.) I feel like her reading ability will naturally improve at her own pace, regardless of whatever random group the teacher decides to put her in.

With word study, I feel she is being artificially held back, by not having access to the more difficult word studies that her peers are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They told me her reading level at the fall conference. I forget the number now (20 maybe?) but all the teacher would say was that was "at the benchmark for first quarter" but if the other girls in her group are the same or similar level (as a group should be) why do they need to see the reading specialist?

DD does not bring reading books home this year (aside from library books she chooses.) She did bring home leveled reading books last year in first.

People might as well stop saying, "This is about your daughter, not about the other kids in the group," because you're disregarding it every time somebody says.