Bright but not gifted children essentially being ignored?

[Anonymous]

Our school uses the DRA test for reading. It's actually a pretty involved assessment. They also do a separate bubble sheet math and language arts test. Just ask to have a conference and go over how your daughter scored on her assessments and what how she's doing in class. If there is a disconnect, you can discuss it with the teacher directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

[Anonymous]

With all the pressure to get kids to perform at a certain level by year-end, the most effort goes to the lowest performing kids in the class to get them either up to speed or keep them progressing. It is true that the top level and upper mid-levels are often left to their own if a teacher is overwhelmed with lower performing or SN kids or is a new teacher still learning the ropes. Unfortunately that's what we've found in public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

[Anonymous]

Op, I think you are smart to keep an eye on things. Second grade the teachers are bracing for parents to push for entry into the gifted program (if this is NoVa, I mean a real push for AAP center) In some cases it feels as if teachers want everyone to be satisfied with the status quo, they don't want you to make waves, they don't want you to question - and here's the important part - they want to have documented history that the child's placement in the non-AAP class is the right one. I think only good will come from having a watchful eye. Don't be an easy push-over. Doesn't sound like you are. Know that at the end of the day, you can make up a great deal of this enrichment at home. At the end of the day, your child's future will not likely be impacted by a disconnect with this teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

OP, your attitude may or may not be justified. But it is certainly not helpful. If you want to help your daughter, you have to work with the teachers. It sounds to me like you're marching in with the attitude that the teachers who are fools who don't know what they're doing, and you know better. This attitude will not work in your favor.

Also, you know far too much about the personal business of other students in the class.

OP here. I agree with the bolded. The mothers have big mouths and volunteer this to me. It's not like I ask.

As for working with the teachers, we've tried asking nicely. They just blow us off. Why am I the only one concerned that her supposed reading and spelling level have gone from advanced to supposedly grade level at best? If this is true (and I don't think it is) my daughter is inexplicably dropping of her own curve, and he teachers haven't noticed or don't care.

It sounds like the kids are grouped by DRA and F&P levels. They're both individually administered reading ability tests. They test more than just decoding (which is the spelling/word group skills you keep talking about). Simply ask the teacher what her reading level is. She should easily be able to give you a number or a letter (depending on which test they use.) She should also be able to tell you the range of levels in your child's reading groups, and what skills your child is most struggling with.

This doesn't need to be a fight. If your daughter was already in the top group and the teacher wasn't offering additional challenge/differentiation, then I'd say yup - the teacher just isn't willing to work with your child.
But there is SOME reason the teacher thinks your daughter is appropriately placed in the lower group. Find out why. Accept that there may be skills she still needs. And understand that reading level isn't just about being able to decode and spell words.

[Anonymous]

I didn't read this whole thread but my DS always gets 100% on his spelling and vocabulary tests. Always. So, he asked the teacher to move him and then I discussed it with her. Turns out, he isn't a terrific speller when he is doing regular writing. He's an advanced writer too, but he lets the spelling lag. So, she wants him to start at the beginning and learn the spelling words list by list so that when he uses the words, he does so correctly. He is apparently just a good kid at memorizing lists. Anyway, she had a reason so we are going with it. Maybe your teacher does too.

[Anonymous]

I was a teacher 10 years ago in a completely different state, but for what it is worth

We had caps on how many students could be in the "gifted" programs. (We also had caps on how many students were allowed to fail each year). We would conference with several other teachers/principals/etc before these decisions were made. And usually, I could go to bat for 1-2 students, maybe 3. I could "fail" 1-2 students total. Regardless of the work that had (or hadn't) been done. This wasn't flexible at all. It was really hard to make those decisions, especially when you had students with fairly comparable skills. And I never knew if I was making the right decision, I just had to go with what I knew at that moment in time.

I don't know if this how it works in this situation, but my guess is that it could be a ratio thing. Only a certain percent of students can be considered "gifted" or even "advanced". If you really want your child to move up in the group, you need to ask for specific, measurable areas to improve. Ask whether you can see the assignments for the next level group so you can do them at home. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read this whole thread but my DS always gets 100% on his spelling and vocabulary tests. Always. So, he asked the teacher to move him and then I discussed it with her. Turns out, he isn't a terrific speller when he is doing regular writing. He's an advanced writer too, but he lets the spelling lag. So, she wants him to start at the beginning and learn the spelling words list by list so that when he uses the words, he does so correctly. He is apparently just a good kid at memorizing lists. Anyway, she had a reason so we are going with it. Maybe your teacher does too.

OP here. Maybe there is a great reason. But this isn't the first time we've brought it up. Why are they so secretive and reluctant to share specifics? The teacher just kept saying "she's fine, she's not behind" like that is all we should care about. I want/expect more from my kids than simply "not behind." We had the preschool Weschler test done (considered private) and therefore we know her full scale IQ is 97th percentile. She is in a word study group with a student who almost needed to repeat a grade. Something is amiss here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read this whole thread but my DS always gets 100% on his spelling and vocabulary tests. Always. So, he asked the teacher to move him and then I discussed it with her. Turns out, he isn't a terrific speller when he is doing regular writing. He's an advanced writer too, but he lets the spelling lag. So, she wants him to start at the beginning and learn the spelling words list by list so that when he uses the words, he does so correctly. He is apparently just a good kid at memorizing lists. Anyway, she had a reason so we are going with it. Maybe your teacher does too.

Red flag, perhaps.

My 10 year old is that way too, and has severe ADHD, which means that he can only focus on so many things: so he spells perfectly during spelling tests, but spells awfully when he has to manage the entire writing process. Luckily his teachers understood that, and put him in the advanced spelling group, which is easy for him (he doesn't even do his spelling homework).

The teacher PP describes is really not seeing that the issue is most likely an executive functioning one, where PP's child is having some difficulty multitasking. Holding the child back is really detrimental to his self-esteem and joy of learning.

To OP, the teachers should really offer you an intelligible explanation. Ask for another meeting about your child's assessments, so they have the time to plan ahead and gather up all her work.

[Anonymous]

16:13 back again...

I wanted to add that your kids (PPs and OPs) might be gifted, but that certain disabilities might be masking that right now. My son is 2e (twice exceptional) in that he is both gifted yet learning disabled and has ADHD. It took his elementary school 5 years to realize the "gifted" part

So keep pushing, politely. Get to the bottom of it. You don't want to be "that" Tiger parent, but you don't want to shortchange your kid either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From your description this sounds like it is more about emotion than facts. You feel that she was dumped, that she is ignored, that the teacher is just relieved she's an easy kid, that she is not recognized as special, and this is making you sad. But the only fact I heard is that you would like her to be in a higher reading group. So, without the sadness and frustration etc., ask the teacher how she was assessed to be in this reading group because you think she should be in it.

I agree.

Also, I have one highly gifted and one advanced but not gifted.

My highly gifted kid spent much of early elementary on his own, until we moved here and was placed in AAP. He is a go with the flow kind of kid, so that combined with already mastering the curriculum made it easy for the teachers to leave him to hisown devices for most of the day.

My very smart kid is more of a firery personality. He gets lots of attention, lots of enrichment, lots of different teaching techniques. I think it is because he is more boisterous and the teachers are trying to keep him occupied and find what catches his interest to make it easier to teach the rest of the class.

Your daughter probably has a good sized group of academic peers in her level placement, and is probably and easy student to teach.

OP here. I actually don't believe her reading and word study groups are her academic peers. There are only 3 other kids in her group and I know for a fact that two of them have private tutors and get pulled out for reading simply to scrape by. The same homework my DD sails through alone, these girls complete with a 1:1 private tutor. One girl was almost held back last year until her parents threw a fit and hired the summer tutor. These are NOT my daughters academic peers.

I did speak to the teacher (and last year's teacher too.) She claims there is some assessment (but not related to previous word study grades) that determines the level. I have yet to be told how the assessment works. Both teachers seem unwilling to deviate from what this all-knowing assessment tells them. (Yet this assessment is brief enough that they solo administer it individually to 25 kids!)

If I remember correctly, early elementary students are placed into reading groups based upon results of the m-class assessment ( can't remember the name of the test). Students are tested individually 3-4 times a year and can result in movement up or down in reading groups. Many good readers are placed in lower groups because their comprehension and analytical skills (oral and written) are not as strong as their ability to read and even spell difficult words. Work with your child on reading books and passages and writing responses to comprehension questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There must be some reason the teacher is keeping her in the middle group and not giving her the more challenging words and assignments. Instead of asking the teacher to give her the harder words, ask the teacher what she still needs to work on in order to move up to the next group.

The teacher isn't intentionally keeping her in the middle group just because she's "easy" - I'm sure most of the kids in the top group are easy kids too. Find out what she really needs to work on.
For my DS, it's writing. He's also in second grade and in the top reading group right now, but the teacher has told us that, while he's one of the very best readers in the class, he's on the verge of being moved to the middle reading group because of his writing skills.

The teacher could be doing it intentionally. It happens. They keep an easy student in a certain group to prevent group movement. Keep insisting OP, contact the principal if need be.

[Anonymous]

I am a second grade teacher. For word study a spelling inventory is given early in the year and the kids are grouped based on results. There are kids who learn the spelling patterns which I then see in their writing. They move to higher groups. There are also kids who memorize the spelling of words for the weekly test but do not transfer that to theor writing. They do not move up to a higher group. could that be your child? How students spell in their daily writing determines whether they move up, not performance on spelling tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a second grade teacher. For word study a spelling inventory is given early in the year and the kids are grouped based on results. There are kids who learn the spelling patterns which I then see in their writing. They move to higher groups. There are also kids who memorize the spelling of words for the weekly test but do not transfer that to theor writing. They do not move up to a higher group. could that be your child? How students spell in their daily writing determines whether they move up, not performance on spelling tests.

OP here. This could be true. But wouldn't you be concerned if a child were essentially dropping a word study level each year? Not moving up with the peers she used to share words with? Her PALS test at the beginning of K was past the end of the year benchmark and her DRA was ahead too. In 2.5 this has changed dramtically! Why do they keep brushing me off like its NBD?