Haters Gonna Hate, but Centers are here to stay (with busing)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

Do you actually think centers are any better? The cliques are only magnified there because of how many AAP kids there are! It's far worse than just having one class of them at a base school.

My older DC moved onto a MS Center (which is also our base), and yes, the atmosphere was much, much better. Academics wee better too. But I realize that you can't directly compare ES & MS experiences. I'm just saying that if you think clique, and "smart" classes and us vs them and name dropping aren't problems in LLIV, you would be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

It is silly to make a bad decision just because some parents are embarrassed, feel left out, and get their feeling hurt easily.

I don't think getting rid of centers in areas with enough kids for local level IV is a bad decision,. It's a decision that makes sense based on budget constraints, and emotions on both sides should be irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

It is silly to make a bad decision just because some parents are embarrassed, feel left out, and get their feeling hurt easily.

I don't think getting rid of centers in areas with enough kids for local level IV is a bad decision,. It's a decision that makes sense based on budget constraints, and emotions on both sides should be irrelevant.

Nailed it. Agree 100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

It is silly to make a bad decision just because some parents are embarrassed, feel left out, and get their feeling hurt easily.

It is silly to continue a bad policy just because a very vocal minority feel entitled to it and are used to getting their way.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure why everyone is so upset about the possibility of centers being on the chopping block. If centers get removed from some parts of FCPS and not others, the same people who brag about centers now will be able to brag about local level IV. People will start to look down on centers because everyone will know that only the lower SES areas have centers. Local level IV will be the new in thing that shows you have money and your kid is a genius. All will be back to the correct order in no time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

Two close friends with kids in established LLIV school like yours said the same as you say in bold above -- much more possibility for friction between kids that lasts across several school years, because there's little opportunity to mix up the core academic classes from year to year and thus separate kids who have issues with each other (or even kids who are best friends and distract each other for that reason, rather than because there's friction). The up side, friends said, was that their families forged really good, close friendships with some families since the kids were together for everything every year. But they found a real down side in terms of kids being with the same group for so long. I can hear responses now saying things like "Kids need to learn to work out their stuff year to year" but that's easily said and not as easily done, if you're an elementary kid who is being distracted from the point of school -- academics -- by having to work on social stuff that is often resolved just by summer break and starting with a new class in the fall. Full disclosure, our own kid went to a center school because our base had zero LLIV option, and benefited from meeting and working with a lot of different kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

Two close friends with kids in established LLIV school like yours said the same as you say in bold above -- much more possibility for friction between kids that lasts across several school years, because there's little opportunity to mix up the core academic classes from year to year and thus separate kids who have issues with each other (or even kids who are best friends and distract each other for that reason, rather than because there's friction). The up side, friends said, was that their families forged really good, close friendships with some families since the kids were together for everything every year. But they found a real down side in terms of kids being with the same group for so long. I can hear responses now saying things like "Kids need to learn to work out their stuff year to year" but that's easily said and not as easily done, if you're an elementary kid who is being distracted from the point of school -- academics -- by having to work on social stuff that is often resolved just by summer break and starting with a new class in the fall. Full disclosure, our own kid went to a center school because our base had zero LLIV option, and benefited from meeting and working with a lot of different kids.

YMMV, we did not experience this at all (clicks based on academic class). It really depends on the cohort of students and not which math class they attend. I have two children - two years apart. Both went to the same ES and had the same teachers through 2nd grade. At least 25% of the class had a sibling in the other grade. The "tone" "flavor" or whatever you want to call it was night and day. The eldest's class had too many BMOC wanna bees and too many queen bee wanna bees. It was horrific. If you were on the bottom of the social ladder you were toast. It was a class that no aide wanted to be assigned as they moved through the school. Teachers dreaded its arrival. OTOH, two years later in my younger DC's class - it had an exceptionally large number of inclusive savvy boys and girls. It was the "nice" class. It was the class that everyone wanted as it moved through the school. Same administration, same % of smart verses bright, large % of same parents and gene pool. Luck of the draw. From what I understand, we experienced the best and worst mixes of personalities you can get. Do not be so quick to blame the academic problem on social issues. Those will be there regardless of how they slice and dice the class. The mean ones will find the scab to pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

Two close friends with kids in established LLIV school like yours said the same as you say in bold above -- much more possibility for friction between kids that lasts across several school years, because there's little opportunity to mix up the core academic classes from year to year and thus separate kids who have issues with each other (or even kids who are best friends and distract each other for that reason, rather than because there's friction). The up side, friends said, was that their families forged really good, close friendships with some families since the kids were together for everything every year. But they found a real down side in terms of kids being with the same group for so long. I can hear responses now saying things like "Kids need to learn to work out their stuff year to year" but that's easily said and not as easily done, if you're an elementary kid who is being distracted from the point of school -- academics -- by having to work on social stuff that is often resolved just by summer break and starting with a new class in the fall. Full disclosure, our own kid went to a center school because our base had zero LLIV option, and benefited from meeting and working with a lot of different kids.

YMMV, we did not experience this at all (clicks based on academic class). It really depends on the cohort of students and not which math class they attend. I have two children - two years apart. Both went to the same ES and had the same teachers through 2nd grade. At least 25% of the class had a sibling in the other grade. The "tone" "flavor" or whatever you want to call it was night and day. The eldest's class had too many BMOC wanna bees and too many queen bee wanna bees. It was horrific. If you were on the bottom of the social ladder you were toast. It was a class that no aide wanted to be assigned as they moved through the school. Teachers dreaded its arrival. OTOH, two years later in my younger DC's class - it had an exceptionally large number of inclusive savvy boys and girls. It was the "nice" class. It was the class that everyone wanted as it moved through the school. Same administration, same % of smart verses bright, large % of same parents and gene pool. Luck of the draw. From what I understand, we experienced the best and worst mixes of personalities you can get. Do not be so quick to blame the academic problem on social issues. Those will be there regardless of how they slice and dice the class. The mean ones will find the scab to pick.

Probably all very true. But when the "mean ones" are all kept together year after year AND are told that they are in the academically superior class AND, let's face it, often have parents with the same attitude, it creates the perfect storm.

[Anonymous]

Probably all very true. But when the "mean ones" are all kept together year after year AND are told that they are in the academically superior class AND, let's face it, often have parents with the same attitude, it creates the perfect storm.

That's a lot of ANDs. It's fair skies at our center. Guess we're lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Probably all very true. But when the "mean ones" are all kept together year after year AND are told that they are in the academically superior class AND, let's face it, often have parents with the same attitude, it creates the perfect storm.

That's a lot of ANDs. It's fair skies at our center. Guess we're lucky.

This. We moved, so I ended up with 4 years of LLIV ES and 2 years of Center ES over two kids. Center atmosphere was so much less toxic. I think it's because the LLIV ES had such a small town feel that the PARENT sniping and back biting over who was and was not in AAP was impossible to escape and bled down to the kids. There were actually a couple of GE parents who essentially told DD (not me, my 3rd grader) that she didn't belong in AAP. The Center school draws from a much larger area, and is not nearly as close-knit, which can be a negative, but the gossip and back biting just aren't there. Lots of DDs Center friends come from the AAP pool, but not all, since she is also involved in school wide activates. FWIW, the academics are much stronger at the Center too.

If I could go back and redo, I would have done Center straight through, based largely on the atmosphere. At the time I thought it was best to keep the kids within their community and with the kids in our neighborhood. But the sad reality was that once they hit the AAP class, they were treated like outsiders anyway. (And DC1 was in the first LLIV class at our ES, so it took a year or two for these problems to become evident-- adding LLIV completely changed the character and atmosphere of the school. There was just so much anger and resentment).

I do get why some of the GE parents at the larger Centers have issues-- it must be tough when it looks to your kid with a 125 IQ like half of the class is "smarter" than they are. This does make me think they should move to Centers with only AAP kids. But I will never understand why GE parents would root for LLIV in all schools. It completely destroys any sense of community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

Two close friends with kids in established LLIV school like yours said the same as you say in bold above -- much more possibility for friction between kids that lasts across several school years, because there's little opportunity to mix up the core academic classes from year to year and thus separate kids who have issues with each other (or even kids who are best friends and distract each other for that reason, rather than because there's friction). The up side, friends said, was that their families forged really good, close friendships with some families since the kids were together for everything every year. But they found a real down side in terms of kids being with the same group for so long. I can hear responses now saying things like "Kids need to learn to work out their stuff year to year" but that's easily said and not as easily done, if you're an elementary kid who is being distracted from the point of school -- academics -- by having to work on social stuff that is often resolved just by summer break and starting with a new class in the fall. Full disclosure, our own kid went to a center school because our base had zero LLIV option, and benefited from meeting and working with a lot of different kids.

YMMV, we did not experience this at all (clicks based on academic class). It really depends on the cohort of students and not which math class they attend. I have two children - two years apart. Both went to the same ES and had the same teachers through 2nd grade. At least 25% of the class had a sibling in the other grade. The "tone" "flavor" or whatever you want to call it was night and day. The eldest's class had too many BMOC wanna bees and too many queen bee wanna bees. It was horrific. If you were on the bottom of the social ladder you were toast. It was a class that no aide wanted to be assigned as they moved through the school. Teachers dreaded its arrival. OTOH, two years later in my younger DC's class - it had an exceptionally large number of inclusive savvy boys and girls. It was the "nice" class. It was the class that everyone wanted as it moved through the school. Same administration, same % of smart verses bright, large % of same parents and gene pool. Luck of the draw. From what I understand, we experienced the best and worst mixes of personalities you can get. Do not be so quick to blame the academic problem on social issues. Those will be there regardless of how they slice and dice the class. The mean ones will find the scab to pick.

Probably all very true. But when the "mean ones" are all kept together year after year AND are told that they are in the academically superior class AND, let's face it, often have parents with the same attitude, it creates the perfect storm.

My point was being in AAP or gen Ed doesn't really matter. there will always be something they can find to "lord it over" someone else. It does not compound the problem as your seem to be implying. It will be there regardless of whether or not AAP is there or wether or not they are told that they are academically superior or not. I assure you if they were in Gen Ed they would be behaving in the same exact way. AAP is not the real issue.

[Anonymous]

AAP is not the real issue.

I think the real issue is the catty, competitive parents, as we have seen in these AAP threads.

[Anonymous]

If you get rid of centers, Fairfax county will turn into Montgomery county. And we all know how much they suck. Leave the bright kids alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you get rid of centers, Fairfax county will turn into Montgomery county. And we all know how much they suck. Leave the bright kids alone.

+1000. Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you get rid of centers, Fairfax county will turn into Montgomery county. And we all know how much they suck. Leave the bright kids alone.

Montgomery Cty. has HGCs - you know, for kids who are actually Highly Gifted. Totally different from the silly model FCPS has.