Haters Gonna Hate, but Centers are here to stay (with busing)

[Anonymous]

Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

Brilliant observation about the name dropping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Karen Garza's budget for next year contains no cuts to AAP Centers or associated transportation (or anything else). It increases teacher compensation and decreases class size.

Condolences to the AAP haters who have been stalking this board for months salivating over the prospect of Centers being dismantled. Not gonna happen. Period. Done. Moving on....

Of course not. Will never happen. It will always go on the table as a possibility because it has to, that's how negotiation works. But it will never happen in Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

Brilliant observation about the name dropping.

As the title says, Haters Gonna Hate. No. Matter. What.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely no reason for centers, and so no need for busing, in many parts of FCPS. I really would prefer to eliminate centers/busing and have smaller class sizes in local level IV where there are enough kids to support local level IV. I'm not sure why saying this gets so many people upset. In a time with no budget constraints, I'm all for keeping all options on the table. Unfortunately, with the significant increase in high needs kids into FCPS and no corresponding increase in the tax base, we aren't in that situation. This is a real question, for those with kids in schools that can support local level IV, why would you prefer to send your kids to centers with larger classes instead of cutting centers and getting a better student/teacher ratio? I doubt we'll get to keep centers and still get smaller class sizes without potentially impacting important things like teacher pay.

While you have a nuanced proposal that I don't disagree with, the bolded parts are why folks tend to get upset. AAP is not implemented the same across the county. Honest question: how would you propose handling schools where there isn't enough to support LLIV? Centers, bussing in some parts of the county and not others? How would FCPS adminster that? Or what?

I'd be thrilled, as it would mean smaller class sizes for those LLIV services.

No it doesn't. It means combination classes. You don't get extra teachers here just because your numbers don't work out perfectly.

This. In our local Center DC's class started at the 34 kids (all of whom LLIV who qualified), and eventually hit 37 kids. It was such a disaster that the next year, the class was 17 and no kids were principal placed (I think one LLIII kid came in for math only)- because the infighting for principal placement was so nasty, the principal essentially gave up. And BTW-- because the AAP class was so small, the GE classes all went over 30 kids, and the GE parents were furious. And almost nobody I know on the AAP side want an AAP /GE combo class-- that's code for watered down. And everyone hates combining grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason is because it's hard to find the perfect amount of kids for an advanced class. If class sizes get smaller, it makes things easier because there are more teachers, but we won't know the budget till May. Also, it's likely that moving kids back to base schools will cause boundary shifts. People might not like where they would be redistricted to.

A lot of us would be just fine with a redistricting.

Good for you. I like our neighborhood schools, and have zero interest in having my kids moved mid ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely no reason for centers, and so no need for busing, in many parts of FCPS. I really would prefer to eliminate centers/busing and have smaller class sizes in local level IV where there are enough kids to support local level IV. I'm not sure why saying this gets so many people upset. In a time with no budget constraints, I'm all for keeping all options on the table. Unfortunately, with the significant increase in high needs kids into FCPS and no corresponding increase in the tax base, we aren't in that situation. This is a real question, for those with kids in schools that can support local level IV, why would you prefer to send your kids to centers with larger classes instead of cutting centers and getting a better student/teacher ratio? I doubt we'll get to keep centers and still get smaller class sizes without potentially impacting important things like teacher pay.

While you have a nuanced proposal that I don't disagree with, the bolded parts are why folks tend to get upset. AAP is not implemented the same across the county. Honest question: how would you propose handling schools where there isn't enough to support LLIV? Centers, bussing in some parts of the county and not others? How would FCPS adminster that? Or what?

I'd be thrilled, as it would mean smaller class sizes for those LLIV services.

No it doesn't. It means combination classes. You don't get extra teachers here just because your numbers don't work out perfectly.

This. In our local Center DC's class started at the 34 kids (all of whom LLIV who qualified), and eventually hit 37 kids. It was such a disaster that the next year, the class was 17 and no kids were principal placed (I think one LLIII kid came in for math only)- because the infighting for principal placement was so nasty, the principal essentially gave up. And BTW-- because the AAP class was so small, the GE classes all went over 30 kids, and the GE parents were furious. And almost nobody I know on the AAP side want an AAP /GE combo class-- that's code for watered down. And everyone hates combining grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

[Anonymous]

^^ weak Center. Glad my last DC is out of the LLIV program this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely no reason for centers, and so no need for busing, in many parts of FCPS. I really would prefer to eliminate centers/busing and have smaller class sizes in local level IV where there are enough kids to support local level IV. I'm not sure why saying this gets so many people upset. In a time with no budget constraints, I'm all for keeping all options on the table. Unfortunately, with the significant increase in high needs kids into FCPS and no corresponding increase in the tax base, we aren't in that situation. This is a real question, for those with kids in schools that can support local level IV, why would you prefer to send your kids to centers with larger classes instead of cutting centers and getting a better student/teacher ratio? I doubt we'll get to keep centers and still get smaller class sizes without potentially impacting important things like teacher pay.

While you have a nuanced proposal that I don't disagree with, the bolded parts are why folks tend to get upset. AAP is not implemented the same across the county. Honest question: how would you propose handling schools where there isn't enough to support LLIV? Centers, bussing in some parts of the county and not others? How would FCPS adminster that? Or what?

I'd be thrilled, as it would mean smaller class sizes for those LLIV services.

No it doesn't. It means combination classes. You don't get extra teachers here just because your numbers don't work out perfectly.

This. In our local Center DC's class started at the 34 kids (all of whom LLIV who qualified), and eventually hit 37 kids. It was such a disaster that the next year, the class was 17 and no kids were principal placed (I think one LLIII kid came in for math only)- because the infighting for principal placement was so nasty, the principal essentially gave up. And BTW-- because the AAP class was so small, the GE classes all went over 30 kids, and the GE parents were furious. And almost nobody I know on the AAP side want an AAP /GE combo class-- that's code for watered down. And everyone hates combining grades.

bs what? dd's grade really has (had-- it split in 6th grade) 37 and was a mess. The grade below is 17, with predictable results to GE class size. And among AAP parents, there is not a lot of love of a combined AAP GE class or combined grades as a solution. I would love to know which part of this you don't believe. Once again-- no vested interest in center schools here-- just a perspective from one "strong" LLIV program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

YES, 1000 times, yes. "Gigantic ego trip" sums it up perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One reason is because it's hard to find the perfect amount of kids for an advanced class. If class sizes get smaller, it makes things easier because there are more teachers, but we won't know the budget till May. Also, it's likely that moving kids back to base schools will cause boundary shifts. People might not like where they would be redistricted to.

A lot of us would be just fine with a redistricting.

Good for you. I like our neighborhood schools, and have zero interest in having my kids moved mid ES.

I like our neighborhood schools too, but if sending all kids back to their base schools would require a rezoning (which I doubt), I'd be perfectly fine with that. Sign me up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

PP in an LLIV school. And instead of name dropping schools, parents just name drop the AAP teacher for the grade. Everyone-- parents and kids alike, knows exactly who is in the "smart" class. And since the AAP kid stay together in all subjects for 4 years, tight, and often mean girl, cliques form-- among the AAP kids and the AAP moms. Why would you want this in your school. It really is an awful environment (and I'm not exactly fighting for Centers because I have a vested interest my kids are going through LLIV (we actually have a strong LLIV and a week Center).

Do you actually think centers are any better? The cliques are only magnified there because of how many AAP kids there are! It's far worse than just having one class of them at a base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely no reason for centers, and so no need for busing, in many parts of FCPS. I really would prefer to eliminate centers/busing and have smaller class sizes in local level IV where there are enough kids to support local level IV. I'm not sure why saying this gets so many people upset. In a time with no budget constraints, I'm all for keeping all options on the table. Unfortunately, with the significant increase in high needs kids into FCPS and no corresponding increase in the tax base, we aren't in that situation. This is a real question, for those with kids in schools that can support local level IV, why would you prefer to send your kids to centers with larger classes instead of cutting centers and getting a better student/teacher ratio? I doubt we'll get to keep centers and still get smaller class sizes without potentially impacting important things like teacher pay.

While you have a nuanced proposal that I don't disagree with, the bolded parts are why folks tend to get upset. AAP is not implemented the same across the county. Honest question: how would you propose handling schools where there isn't enough to support LLIV? Centers, bussing in some parts of the county and not others? How would FCPS adminster that? Or what?

I'd be thrilled, as it would mean smaller class sizes for those LLIV services.

No it doesn't. It means combination classes. You don't get extra teachers here just because your numbers don't work out perfectly.

This. In our local Center DC's class started at the 34 kids (all of whom LLIV who qualified), and eventually hit 37 kids. It was such a disaster that the next year, the class was 17 and no kids were principal placed (I think one LLIII kid came in for math only)- because the infighting for principal placement was so nasty, the principal essentially gave up. And BTW-- because the AAP class was so small, the GE classes all went over 30 kids, and the GE parents were furious. And almost nobody I know on the AAP side want an AAP /GE combo class-- that's code for watered down. And everyone hates combining grades.

bs what? dd's grade really has (had-- it split in 6th grade) 37 and was a mess. The grade below is 17, with predictable results to GE class size. And among AAP parents, there is not a lot of love of a combined AAP GE class or combined grades as a solution. I would love to know which part of this you don't believe. Once again-- no vested interest in center schools here-- just a perspective from one "strong" LLIV program.

By all means, let's make extra sure that AAP parents get their way at all times. We wouldn't want to make them feel uncomfortable by having their kids mingle with the GE kids. Because they're so vastly different and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Know why parents freak out about entry into AAP? Several reasons. One being that the program is so bloated that it's embarrassing for some parents to be excluded.

And secondly, the obvious public nature of "Centers." It's easy to drop it into casual conversation how smart your child is if he/she doesn't go to the neighborhood school.

Get rid of centers, pare the program from the gigantic ego trip it's become to a real G/T program, and move on.

It is silly to make a bad decision just because some parents are embarrassed, feel left out, and get their feeling hurt easily.