James Holmes--The sentencing verdict is really bothering me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, here. I do not feel terrible for his parents.

Why? Do you somehow think it's their fault? God help you if you ever have a family member with a serious mental illness. Getting them the help they need, including keeping other people around them safe, is shockingly difficult. I speak from experience.

+1 Although not in my immediate family, I've certainly seen other family members' painful struggles as they try to make the best decisions for siblings and/or children. It's really hard to understand some people's lack of compassion and understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental health services available to everyone would be great, but this guy was already getting those services.

I have serious issues with the death penalty and think it should be barred from being used for people who mentally ill, mentally retarded and children. I think the Supreme Court has already ruled on the latter two.

He was getting services. And he was telling people for years about how he wanted to kill people. His one psychologist said he'd been obsessed with killing people for over a decade.

But he was allowed to buy guns and other weapons legally from stores. You can't pilot a plane if you are taking anti-depression meds, but you can buy a gun even if you've let everyone know you want to kill people.

I agree with you but also think our mental health resources and professionals have made it too hard to provide institutionalized care for those who truly need it. I haven't seen one picture of him with what I would view as a "normal" facial expression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't followed the trial and I don't know anything about his mental state. If I was juror the only thing that really would have swayed me in a case like this is if he had a documented history of mental illness, did not know the difference between fantasy and reality and clearly should not have been out walking around among others because he was an obvious potential danger to himself and to others.

If I got any sort of sense that he had control over his actions and understood what he was doing - nope. Not swayed.

I too was unsure about the appropriate penalty and still don't really know how I would have decided. Hat said, the fact that he was wearing body armor when he did it makes me think he was aware enough of consequences to know what he was doing, and therefore right from wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We teach our children natural consequences. I think a natural consequence of taking a life is forfeiting yours. However I agree with others here, Holmes is mentally ill. Lock him up for life, treat his illness.

The government is not my mommy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We teach our children natural consequences. I think a natural consequence of taking a life is forfeiting yours. However I agree with others here, Holmes is mentally ill. Lock him up for life, treat his illness.

The government is not my mommy.

Neither of you understands natural consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental health services available to everyone would be great, but this guy was already getting those services.

I have serious issues with the death penalty and think it should be barred from being used for people who mentally ill, mentally retarded and children. I think the Supreme Court has already ruled on the latter two.

He was getting services. And he was telling people for years about how he wanted to kill people. His one psychologist said he'd been obsessed with killing people for over a decade.

But he was allowed to buy guns and other weapons legally from stores. You can't pilot a plane if you are taking anti-depression meds, but you can buy a gun even if you've let everyone know you want to kill people.

I agree with you but also think our mental health resources and professionals have made it too hard to provide institutionalized care for those who truly need it. I haven't seen one picture of him with what I would view as a "normal" facial expression.

We have grossly inadequate mental health resources services. That's the problem. In the 60s, there were 350 psychiatric beds per 100,000 people. Now there are about 15 beds. Most studies show we need a minimum of 50 beds per 100,000. I'm not talking about a return to insane asylums like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But both modern-day community and residential services that actually meet our needs. Psychiatrists can't refer people somewhere if there's nowhere to go. Families can't figure out how to help their loved ones stay on or change medications to best suit needs if there are no providers out there.

Right now our jails are our nation's biggest mental health providers. That doesn't do anyone any good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We teach our children natural consequences. I think a natural consequence of taking a life is forfeiting yours. However I agree with others here, Holmes is mentally ill. Lock him up for life, treat his illness.

The government is not my mommy.

Neither of you understands natural consequences.

What I understand is that I don't want the government killing citizens for any reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We teach our children natural consequences. I think a natural consequence of taking a life is forfeiting yours. However I agree with others here, Holmes is mentally ill. Lock him up for life, treat his illness.

The government is not my mommy.

Neither of you understands natural consequences.

What I understand is that I don't want the government killing citizens for any reason.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental health services available to everyone would be great, but this guy was already getting those services.

I have serious issues with the death penalty and think it should be barred from being used for people who mentally ill, mentally retarded and children. I think the Supreme Court has already ruled on the latter two.

He was getting services. And he was telling people for years about how he wanted to kill people. His one psychologist said he'd been obsessed with killing people for over a decade.

But he was allowed to buy guns and other weapons legally from stores. You can't pilot a plane if you are taking anti-depression meds, but you can buy a gun even if you've let everyone know you want to kill people.

Exactly, mentall illness is not an excuse if you understand what you are doing is wrong. Compare Holmes with the Tuscon shooter who was so ill he didn't even understand he was on trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental health services available to everyone would be great, but this guy was already getting those services.

I have serious issues with the death penalty and think it should be barred from being used for people who mentally ill, mentally retarded and children. I think the Supreme Court has already ruled on the latter two.

He was getting services. And he was telling people for years about how he wanted to kill people. His one psychologist said he'd been obsessed with killing people for over a decade.

But he was allowed to buy guns and other weapons legally from stores. You can't pilot a plane if you are taking anti-depression meds, but you can buy a gun even if you've let everyone know you want to kill people.

I agree with you but also think our mental health resources and professionals have made it too hard to provide institutionalized care for those who truly need it. I haven't seen one picture of him with what I would view as a "normal" facial expression.

We have grossly inadequate mental health resources services. That's the problem. In the 60s, there were 350 psychiatric beds per 100,000 people. Now there are about 15 beds. Most studies show we need a minimum of 50 beds per 100,000. I'm not talking about a return to insane asylums like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But both modern-day community and residential services that actually meet our needs. Psychiatrists can't refer people somewhere if there's nowhere to go. Families can't figure out how to help their loved ones stay on or change medications to best suit needs if there are no providers out there.

Right now our jails are our nation's biggest mental health providers. That doesn't do anyone any good.

PP here. I am fully aware of all that you've said and agree completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was mentally ill but knew what he was doing. Like the Unabomber. If you know right from wrong
,you don't meet the definition of criminally insane.

This is where the law contrdicts itself. His disease is legally recognized in every country.
Yet lawyers know very little about it. As awful as the crime is, I do think a person with full mental capacity doing the same is worse.
Nobody knows what 'knew he was doing wrong' means for a very ill person or someone in a psychosis.

Most likely they will already have lost their grip om reality, and believe they are what in some way has to be done.

The guy wore body armor and rigged his apartment to kill police officers. He clearly was functioning at a high level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The government shouldn't be killing people. That's what the bad guys do.

I'd rather use the money - $$$ that makes criminals and murderers comfortable - for education. Isn't that more proactive?

Why house a nut job or a sick asshole on the taxpayer's dime?

[Anonymous]

It bothers me because he should be sent to a mental institution, not a prison. He will be dead within six months in a prison so you will get your death sentence for which you pant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It bothers me because he should be sent to a mental institution, not a prison. He will be dead within six months in a prison so you will get your death sentence for which you pant.

Not if he's in solitary confinement, unless he manages somehow to off himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't followed the trial and I don't know anything about his mental state. If I was juror the only thing that really would have swayed me in a case like this is if he had a documented history of mental illness, did not know the difference between fantasy and reality and clearly should not have been out walking around among others because he was an obvious potential danger to himself and to others.

If I got any sort of sense that he had control over his actions and understood what he was doing - nope. Not swayed.

I too was unsure about the appropriate penalty and still don't really know how I would have decided. Hat said, the fact that he was wearing body armor when he did it makes me think he was aware enough of consequences to know what he was doing, and therefore right from wrong.

I didn't know that he wore body armor, I agree that that type of planning is pretty chilling. Not too many people have body armor in their closet. He must have been thinking about doing this for a while.