Faith

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

[Anonymous]

Op here. We may be talking past each other so I will just say, with respect to peoples' faith, that I still don't think I have bee given a reason why God would choose to set it up this way. Jesus is the path and the light doesn't explain why God would do it that way and have it be the only way. It assumes the answer.

[Anonymous]

I find it ironic that I am being called insufficiently humble *because* I don't think I have a direct line to God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. We may be talking past each other so I will just say, with respect to peoples' faith, that I still don't think I have bee given a reason why God would choose to set it up this way. Jesus is the path and the light doesn't explain why God would do it that way and have it be the only way. It assumes the answer.

First of all, a correction: Jesus is the way, the truth and the LIFE, not the light! It's an important distinction. And as to your question... I don't get what you're asking. It doesn't explain why God didn't give multiple options to get to Him? No, He didn't... but so what? He gave us what we need. You can take it or leave it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

If you do fall in love after death, then, yes, according to this Christian poster and CS Lewis- you will be accepted.

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened." CS Lewis

However, according to Chrstian doctrine it is very unlikely - most conservatives would say impossible-that you will (fall in love after death).
As CS Lewis also put it:

"Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God "sending us" to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will BE hell unless it is nipped in the bud"
C.S. Lewis

If you want to read more about this issue and how is debated among Christians, read here:
http://thesimplepastor.co.uk/do-rob-bell-tim-keller-and-cs-lewis-agree-on-hell/

No one thinks it's the least bit arrogant that CS Lewis can supposedly speak FOR God?

Yeah, I noticed that -- but maybe those who like what he's saying don't notice that so much

maybe so . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

Exactly. No worries for you atheists, IMO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

One of the things that I find uniquely distasteful among the atheists I know (and that is actually quite a few) is their almost universal inability to recognize and appreciate beauty, analogy and imagery in life, such as in the written word or in art. PP, you must be a ball to visit museums with. Do you look at a Monet painting and think, "why couldn't he keep the lines straight?" Cleansed by the blood of Christ does not mean that you yourself must bathe in blood. Apparently it is necessary to spell that out for you. Just FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

One of the things that I find uniquely distasteful among the atheists I know (and that is actually quite a few) is their almost universal inability to recognize and appreciate beauty, analogy and imagery in life, such as in the written word or in art. PP, you must be a ball to visit museums with. Do you look at a Monet painting and think, "why couldn't he keep the lines straight?" Cleansed by the blood of Christ does not mean that you yourself must bathe in blood. Apparently it is necessary to spell that out for you. Just FYI.

Apparently, honeybun, you're not looking though a Catholic lens.

The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine.

As a Catholic school-educated FORMER Catholic, we were told that

the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood."

So while I won't question the techniques found in French Impressionism but will instead admire the beauty of the brushstrokes, I was "trained" to believe that I was drinking Jesus' blood and eating his body like a cannibal.

Remember that as a GOOD Christian, PP, you should be open-minded about the subtle (or not so subtle) differences among your belief system and others.

As an atheist, I'm don't have to be open-minded at all.

Happy eating!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

One of the things that I find uniquely distasteful among the atheists I know (and that is actually quite a few) is their almost universal inability to recognize and appreciate beauty, analogy and imagery in life, such as in the written word or in art. PP, you must be a ball to visit museums with. Do you look at a Monet painting and think, "why couldn't he keep the lines straight?" Cleansed by the blood of Christ does not mean that you yourself must bathe in blood. Apparently it is necessary to spell that out for you. Just FYI.

Apparently, honeybun, you're not looking though a Catholic lens.

The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine.

As a Catholic school-educated FORMER Catholic, we were told that

the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood."

So while I won't question the techniques found in French Impressionism but will instead admire the beauty of the brushstrokes, I was "trained" to believe that I was drinking Jesus' blood and eating his body like a cannibal.

Remember that as a GOOD Christian, PP, you should be open-minded about the subtle (or not so subtle) differences among your belief system and others.

As an atheist, I'm don't have to be open-minded at all.

Happy eating!

This Catholic teaching cannot be found in Scripture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

One of the things that I find uniquely distasteful among the atheists I know (and that is actually quite a few) is their almost universal inability to recognize and appreciate beauty, analogy and imagery in life, such as in the written word or in art. PP, you must be a ball to visit museums with. Do you look at a Monet painting and think, "why couldn't he keep the lines straight?" Cleansed by the blood of Christ does not mean that you yourself must bathe in blood. Apparently it is necessary to spell that out for you. Just FYI.

Apparently, honeybun, you're not looking though a Catholic lens.

The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine.

As a Catholic school-educated FORMER Catholic, we were told that

the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood."

So while I won't question the techniques found in French Impressionism but will instead admire the beauty of the brushstrokes, I was "trained" to believe that I was drinking Jesus' blood and eating his body like a cannibal.

Remember that as a GOOD Christian, PP, you should be open-minded about the subtle (or not so subtle) differences among your belief system and others.

As an atheist, I'm don't have to be open-minded at all.

Happy eating!

not pp. Taking in the body and blood does not mean literally bathing in a vat of Christ's blood. That is what the pp was getting at, and you know it. We are cleansed by the shedding of His blood. So save your Sunday school condescension.

And you give other atheists a bad name if you say you don't have to be open-minded at all. There are open- and fair-minded atheists on these boards, and you could learn something from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. We may be talking past each other so I will just say, with respect to peoples' faith, that I still don't think I have bee given a reason why God would choose to set it up this way. Jesus is the path and the light doesn't explain why God would do it that way and have it be the only way. It assumes the answer.

Let's see -- God doesn't need to explain anything beyond His word? He told us all we needed to do, but some people are too prideful or whatever to pay heed. God's ways are not our ways.

People have been making excuses for God for Centuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

And you can finally exist in that utopia where people aren't trying to convert you. Bonus!

If being cleansed means bathing in blood, then my godless utopia is looking pretty good.

One of the things that I find uniquely distasteful among the atheists I know (and that is actually quite a few) is their almost universal inability to recognize and appreciate beauty, analogy and imagery in life, such as in the written word or in art. PP, you must be a ball to visit museums with. Do you look at a Monet painting and think, "why couldn't he keep the lines straight?" Cleansed by the blood of Christ does not mean that you yourself must bathe in blood. Apparently it is necessary to spell that out for you. Just FYI.

Apparently, honeybun, you're not looking though a Catholic lens.

The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine.

As a Catholic school-educated FORMER Catholic, we were told that

the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood."

So while I won't question the techniques found in French Impressionism but will instead admire the beauty of the brushstrokes, I was "trained" to believe that I was drinking Jesus' blood and eating his body like a cannibal.

Remember that as a GOOD Christian, PP, you should be open-minded about the subtle (or not so subtle) differences among your belief system and others.

As an atheist, I'm don't have to be open-minded at all.

Happy eating!

not pp. Taking in the body and blood does not mean literally bathing in a vat of Christ's blood. That is what the pp was getting at, and you know it. We are cleansed by the shedding of His blood. So save your Sunday school condescension.

And you give other atheists a bad name if you say you don't have to be open-minded at all. There are open- and fair-minded atheists on these boards, and you could learn something from them.

There are also atheists - like all the ones I know, who are great aficionados of the finest art and music and enthusiastic lovers of life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
One of the things that I find uniquely distasteful among the atheists I know (and that is actually quite a few) is their almost universal inability to recognize and appreciate beauty, analogy and imagery in life, such as in the written word or in art. PP, you must be a ball to visit museums with. Do you look at a Monet painting and think, "why couldn't he keep the lines straight?" Cleansed by the blood of Christ does not mean that you yourself must bathe in blood. Apparently it is necessary to spell that out for you. Just FYI.

Anything else distasteful about atheists that you'd like to share?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. We may be talking past each other so I will just say, with respect to peoples' faith, that I still don't think I have bee given a reason why God would choose to set it up this way. Jesus is the path and the light doesn't explain why God would do it that way and have it be the only way. It assumes the answer.

First of all, a correction: Jesus is the way, the truth and the LIFE, not the light! It's an important distinction. And as to your question... I don't get what you're asking. It doesn't explain why God didn't give multiple options to get to Him? No, He didn't... but so what? He gave us what we need. You can take it or leave it.

I realize this may not be your goal but you are th least persuasive prosthelytizer I have ever come across.
"Don't ask your silly questions, He is just the answer."