Faith

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

But I take it you think it is offered and must be accepted before death.

Different Christian poster here, but I would also like to answer.
I don't think it *has* to be accepted before death, but I also find strange the idea that one who never thought he/she needed "a cleansing" would change his/her mind after death. Christians would say that after death you just become more of you alrready are.

[Anonymous]

* who you already are

[Anonymous]

OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

Yes, He is. You're just not listening!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

Yes, He is. You're just not listening!

Ha! And on the grounds of this deafness he will keep me forever from him even if I come to love him in death? What's the point in that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

Yes, He is. You're just not listening!

Ha! And on the grounds of this deafness he will keep me forever from him even if I come to love him in death? What's the point in that?

Why not just love Him now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

He's been revealed to all of us, in the person of Jesus Christ. But you've rejected Him, and now you claim that He hasn't revealed Himself to you. This is what the Christians on this site are telling you: He WILL reward your faith. Why be so stubborn and reject this? You are rejecting a relationship with GOD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:12, do you believe he would punish in the afterlife those who don't achieve fellowship with him on earth?

Muslima, if I could know there was a god and that his purpose in creating us was to have someone to worship him, I couldnt worship such a god.

What about if you also knew that eternal punishment awaited you if you refused to worship him? Would you still refuse, or would you try to worship him and hope that his magical powers didn't extend to being able to read your mind and know you weren't sincere and were just trying to get into heaven?

I can't believe you can fake your way in, if belief is in fact required. Pascal's wager is ridiculous.

But what if you're really, really trying to believe -- you're sincere about wanting to believe, you just can't, if you're being honest about it, say that you for sure believe. If there is a God, this is how me made you - skeptical -- and then he'd punish you for it, for eternity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is unfortunate that 'fire and brimstone' Christianity has developed such a strong hold on people's imagination. "Salvation" in early Christianity was not primarily intended as 'a ticket out of hell'.

Anyhow, I prefer to translate what's usually translated as faith in English with the word Trust (in my native language the word "faith" is the same as what spouses promise to each other, to trust and be trusteorthy).

So basically to trust in God is to love him and wanting to be with him. Heaven is to be with him, hell away from him. But hell only looks like hell from heaven's point of view. It is freely chosen, and no one on hell really wants to go to heaven. Why would they!? Be there with a God you never knew is not that appealing.

From here:http://www.redeemer.com/redeemer-report/article/the_importance_of_hell

"What is hell, then? It is God actively giving us up to what we have freely chosen-to go our own way, be our own "the master of our fate, the captain of our soul," to get away from him and his control. It is God banishing us to regions we have desperately tried to get into all our lives. J.I.Packer writes: "Scripture sees hell as self-chosen . . . [H]ell appears as God's gesture of respect for human choice. All receive what they actually chose, either to be with God forever, worshipping him, or without God forever, worshipping themselves." (J.I.Packer, Concise Theology p.262-263.) If the thing you most want is to worship God in the beauty of his holiness, then that is what you will get (Ps 96:9-13.) If the thing you most want is to be your own master, then the holiness of God will become an agony, and the presence of God a terror you will flee forever (Rev 6:16; cf. Is 6:1-6.)"

This is what I've been saying for days, but not as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:12, do you believe he would punish in the afterlife those who don't achieve fellowship with him on earth?

Muslima, if I could know there was a god and that his purpose in creating us was to have someone to worship him, I couldnt worship such a god.

What about if you also knew that eternal punishment awaited you if you refused to worship him? Would you still refuse, or would you try to worship him and hope that his magical powers didn't extend to being able to read your mind and know you weren't sincere and were just trying to get into heaven?

I can't believe you can fake your way in, if belief is in fact required. Pascal's wager is ridiculous.

But what if you're really, really trying to believe -- you're sincere about wanting to believe, you just can't, if you're being honest about it, say that you for sure believe. If there is a God, this is how me made you - skeptical -- and then he'd punish you for it, for eternity?

God doesn't make us skeptical. No baby is born skeptical. Life may form us that way so we have a greater challenge to overcome it, with His help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:12, do you believe he would punish in the afterlife those who don't achieve fellowship with him on earth?

Muslima, if I could know there was a god and that his purpose in creating us was to have someone to worship him, I couldnt worship such a god.

What about if you also knew that eternal punishment awaited you if you refused to worship him? Would you still refuse, or would you try to worship him and hope that his magical powers didn't extend to being able to read your mind and know you weren't sincere and were just trying to get into heaven?

I can't believe you can fake your way in, if belief is in fact required. Pascal's wager is ridiculous.

But what if you're really, really trying to believe -- you're sincere about wanting to believe, you just can't, if you're being honest about it, say that you for sure believe. If there is a God, this is how me made you - skeptical -- and then he'd punish you for it, for eternity?

You need to go over and read the discussion on the thread about "my views about religion." This has been discussed and discussed. As stated there, "believing" is not something that you really, really try to do. You either open yourself up to a relationship with God through Christ, or you don't. You don't "try" to become a believer, like you "try" to become a Nationals fan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

If you do fall in love after death, then, yes, according to this Christian poster and CS Lewis- you will be accepted.

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened." CS Lewis

However, according to Chrstian doctrine it is very unlikely - most conservatives would say impossible-that you will (fall in love after death).
As CS Lewis also put it:

"Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God "sending us" to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will BE hell unless it is nipped in the bud"
C.S. Lewis

If you want to read more about this issue and how is debated among Christians, read here:
http://thesimplepastor.co.uk/do-rob-bell-tim-keller-and-cs-lewis-agree-on-hell/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we all sin, and thus on this logic no one would enter Heaven. But I'm sure that's not what the person means by God and co-existing with sin.

My view would be that whatever it is you think has to happen after death to cleanse the person of sin would be offered to all people. I suppose you could reject it.

Ah, but we as Christians do. Because we are cleansed, renewed and washed by the blood of Christ. He has paid for our sin for us, in a way that we simply cannot. Of course this is offered to all people. It is a shame that so many do choose to reject it, by not choosing Him.

On the up side, it makes more room in heaven for those who are properly cleansed, renewed and washed in His blood. No more proselytizing or pitying the unpersuaded. Instead, this very elite group can spend eternity mixing with each other and congratulating themselves on exerting their free will in just the right way to secure their special spot in heaven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

If you do fall in love after death, then, yes, according to this Christian poster and CS Lewis- you will be accepted.

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened." CS Lewis

However, according to Chrstian doctrine it is very unlikely - most conservatives would say impossible-that you will (fall in love after death).
As CS Lewis also put it:

"Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God "sending us" to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will BE hell unless it is nipped in the bud"
C.S. Lewis

If you want to read more about this issue and how is debated among Christians, read here:
http://thesimplepastor.co.uk/do-rob-bell-tim-keller-and-cs-lewis-agree-on-hell/

No one thinks it's the least bit arrogant that CS Lewis can supposedly speak FOR God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The difference is that upon death he would be revealed to me and I would know him and love him. He is not currently revealed to me.

If you do fall in love after death, then, yes, according to this Christian poster and CS Lewis- you will be accepted.

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened." CS Lewis

However, according to Chrstian doctrine it is very unlikely - most conservatives would say impossible-that you will (fall in love after death).
As CS Lewis also put it:

"Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others... but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God "sending us" to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will BE hell unless it is nipped in the bud"
C.S. Lewis

If you want to read more about this issue and how is debated among Christians, read here:
http://thesimplepastor.co.uk/do-rob-bell-tim-keller-and-cs-lewis-agree-on-hell/

No one thinks it's the least bit arrogant that CS Lewis can supposedly speak FOR God?

Yeah, I noticed that -- but maybe those who like what he's saying don't notice that so much