Was Paul Ryan's remark inarticulate or racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bill Cosby pretty much says the same thing.

And Chris Rock.

Chris Rock saying it makes it true?
And when did Chris Rock say this?

Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, and many other members of this country's minority communities have the courage to challenge the narratives crafted by politicians to try to start meaningful, honest dialog on the issue of race.

They should be commended, not attacked.

Well Bill Cosby said the Republican Congress was as bad as the segregationists of the 60's. That was 2013. So guess what, inner cities have a problem and the GOP does too.

Who said anything about Congress? This sort of partisan name calling is not constructive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bill Cosby pretty much says the same thing.

And Chris Rock.

Chris Rock saying it makes it true?
And when did Chris Rock say this?

Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, and many other members of this country's minority communities have the courage to challenge the narratives crafted by politicians to try to start meaningful, honest dialog on the issue of race.

They should be commended, not attacked.

Well Bill Cosby said the Republican Congress was as bad as the segregationists of the 60's. That was 2013. So guess what, inner cities have a problem and the GOP does too.

Who said anything about Congress? This sort of partisan name calling is not constructive.

Paul Ryan is the subject of this thread. Bill Cosby is being used to defend Ryan. Since Ryan is a member of Congress, Bill Cosby's opinions about GOP Congress and racism are relevant.

[Anonymous]

.brcayse he would have paid in for several more decades.

Ryan's dad was 55 when he died. I think he probably had already worked for several decades. Ryan collected for two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bill Cosby pretty much says the same thing.

And Chris Rock.

Chris Rock saying it makes it true?
And when did Chris Rock say this?

Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, and many other members of this country's minority communities have the courage to challenge the narratives crafted by politicians to try to start meaningful, honest dialog on the issue of race.

They should be commended, not attacked.

Well Bill Cosby said the Republican Congress was as bad as the segregationists of the 60's. That was 2013. So guess what, inner cities have a problem and the GOP does too.

Looks like we will have to wait until November to find out. We'll see what Americans think come Nov. 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:aren't white people kicking blacks out of inner cities?

the reason it was racist by paul ryan is because he later followed up with saying rural america has a problem too and then said it was due to a lack of jobs.

if he said inner cities and rural america faced the same challenges, then it would've been race neutral.

but he made city mouse out to be lazy and country mouse just out of luck.

Exactly!!! The inner city black kids are lazy and don't want to or value work while the the Mississippi trailer welfare dad that likes to drink beer all day and molest his step daughter (white) is out of luck because XYZ manufacturing went away 20 years ago to China. Yes I know there are non blacks in the inner city just like there are blacks in trailers, but let's be real here, we all speak that language and if your don't you're in denial.

They're both out of luck but the issue is of what you do about that bad luck. In those old broken down manufacturing communities anyone with a clue moved on to other towns with better prospects. We have people sitting around whining that there's no jobs and no opportunities even as millions of illegal immigrants come all the way here from places like Honduras and El Salvador with nothing but the shirt on their back, who ARE able to find jobs in construction, in restaurants, et cetera. And they are jobs that not only pay for food and a roof over their heads but also provide enough money for them to be able to send a big chunk of it home to their families in central America. That's millions of jobs that were there for the taking for Americans - but Americans turned their noses up at them. I had my share of hard times too, had to work 2 and 3 jobs at a time, went for stretches where I barely had $7 a week to put food on the table, had to move several times because I couldn't afford to live where I was or had to move because work was drying up, so the whining and excuse-making that I constantly hear is really just a bunch of pure crap to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both.

First of all, he's wrong in assuming that the issue is confined to the inner city when, in fact, the majority of people below the poverty level are NOT in inner cities.

So in that sense it is racist, and quite ignorant in being selective in an uninformed way.

Not "inarticulate" because I think he said what he meant. But what he meant was informed by ignorance, and the code word / subtext is clear even though/if there is a nugget of truth in it. It's half-truth at best, and even so, selectively misleading in a way that panders to his constituency.

He really is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like.

DINGDINGDINGDING!

I know, I know. This may be one of the best lines I've read in this forum.

[Anonymous]

They're both out of luck but the issue is of what you do about that bad luck. In those old broken down manufacturing communities anyone with a clue moved on to other towns with better prospects. We have people sitting around whining that there's no jobs and no opportunities even as millions of illegal immigrants come all the way here from places like Honduras and El Salvador with nothing but the shirt on their back, who ARE able to find jobs in construction, in restaurants, et cetera. And they are jobs that not only pay for food and a roof over their heads but also provide enough money for them to be able to send a big chunk of it home to their families in central America. That's millions of jobs that were there for the taking for Americans - but Americans turned their noses up at them. I had my share of hard times too, had to work 2 and 3 jobs at a time, went for stretches where I barely had $7 a week to put food on the table, had to move several times because I couldn't afford to live where I was or had to move because work was drying up, so the whining and excuse-making that I constantly hear is really just a bunch of pure crap to me.

People forget why Detroit grew so large to start with--for the jobs. North Dakota has jobs now, but people would rather stay put and collect welfare or food stamps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, as someone who grew up amid the poor, uneducated white people of Appalachia, I'd like to see some attention to the "culture problem" there. Multi-generational poverty, domestic abuse, rampant drug abuse, terrible schools, high teenage birth rate, hopelessness--everything Paul Ryan and his type decry in urban black populations

This has been a problem for lots longer than the inner city problem--I think. I don't have an answer to this. Jobs would help.

Republicans blame job loss when white communities are besieged by the pathologies above. When black communities suffer from the same problems, Republicans blame the "culture." In other words, bad things might *happen* to white people, but black people cause their own problems. Same old story.[/quote

Yes, I always argue the "tailspin of culture" one sees in rural, largely white communities is what African-Americans began to experience in the late '60s (remember folks, last to hire -> first to fire). The deindustrialization of the NE and Midwest began first and rippled outwards. The "tailspin" of African-Americans in the early waves was most notable as they had fewer assets, less intergenerational wealth, and smaller established networks to tap. The fall out of good paying working class jobs has been going on four decades - it just took a lot longer for more whites to get caught up in the bust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:aren't white people kicking blacks out of inner cities?

the reason it was racist by paul ryan is because he later followed up with saying rural america has a problem too and then said it was due to a lack of jobs.

if he said inner cities and rural america faced the same challenges, then it would've been race neutral.

but he made city mouse out to be lazy and country mouse just out of luck.

Exactly!!! The inner city black kids are lazy and don't want to or value work while the the Mississippi trailer welfare dad that likes to drink beer all day and molest his step daughter (white) is out of luck because XYZ manufacturing went away 20 years ago to China. Yes I know there are non blacks in the inner city just like there are blacks in trailers, but let's be real here, we all speak that language and if your don't you're in denial.

They're both out of luck but the issue is of what you do about that bad luck. In those old broken down manufacturing communities anyone with a clue moved on to other towns with better prospects. We have people sitting around whining that there's no jobs and no opportunities even as millions of illegal immigrants come all the way here from places like Honduras and El Salvador with nothing but the shirt on their back, who ARE able to find jobs in construction, in restaurants, et cetera. And they are jobs that not only pay for food and a roof over their heads but also provide enough money for them to be able to send a big chunk of it home to their families in central America. That's millions of jobs that were there for the taking for Americans - but Americans turned their noses up at them. I had my share of hard times too, had to work 2 and 3 jobs at a time, went for stretches where I barely had $7 a week to put food on the table, had to move several times because I couldn't afford to live where I was or had to move because work was drying up, so the whining and excuse-making that I constantly hear is really just a bunch of pure crap to me.

Poor people take jobs in construction and restaurants. I don't know what you are talking about, "turned their noses up". I doubt that city people would move across the country and become migrant farm workers, but that's about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They're both out of luck but the issue is of what you do about that bad luck. In those old broken down manufacturing communities anyone with a clue moved on to other towns with better prospects. We have people sitting around whining that there's no jobs and no opportunities even as millions of illegal immigrants come all the way here from places like Honduras and El Salvador with nothing but the shirt on their back, who ARE able to find jobs in construction, in restaurants, et cetera. And they are jobs that not only pay for food and a roof over their heads but also provide enough money for them to be able to send a big chunk of it home to their families in central America. That's millions of jobs that were there for the taking for Americans - but Americans turned their noses up at them. I had my share of hard times too, had to work 2 and 3 jobs at a time, went for stretches where I barely had $7 a week to put food on the table, had to move several times because I couldn't afford to live where I was or had to move because work was drying up, so the whining and excuse-making that I constantly hear is really just a bunch of pure crap to me.

People forget why Detroit grew so large to start with--for the jobs. North Dakota has jobs now, but people would rather stay put and collect welfare or food stamps.

yeah, cause it is so easy to sell's one underwater house and extricate yourself and kids from your social networks. That's why no family is ever sad when they move.

[Anonymous]

yeah, cause it is so easy to sell's one underwater house and extricate yourself and kids from your social networks. That's why no family is ever sad when they move.

Do you really think all the people who came to America came for adventure? They came because of work--except for the ones who came for freedom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jamelle Bouie is excellent on this (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/12/what-paul-ryan-gets-wrong-about-inner-city-poverty.html):

"Our realities are shaped by a mutually reinforcing matrix of culture, civil society, law, and individual choice (among other things). If America has a “car culture,” it has as much to do with our rugged sense of individualism as it does with our sprawling geography, and a government that made highways an essential part of our transportation infrastructure. To look at our attachment to cars and proclaim “culture” is to miss most of the story....

The same goes for Ryan and poverty. Inner-city poverty didn’t just happen, it was built. It’s the job of a policymaker to understand the full scope of what that means, from the blueprints of past policies, to their implementation, to the forces that drove the issues to begin with. And in the case of urban poverty, the issue was racism."

Also, as someone who grew up amid the poor, uneducated white people of Appalachia, I'd like to see some attention to the "culture problem" there. Multi-generational poverty, domestic abuse, rampant drug abuse, terrible schools, high teenage birth rate, hopelessness--everything Paul Ryan and his type decry in urban black populations. So is that a "culture problem," Paul Ryan? Somehow I suspect he'd be quick to blame the loss of manufacturing jobs instead.

Thanks for the link--Jamelle Bouie is usually worth a read. And I think it's on the nose. "Urban" and "inner city" have been racist dogwhistles for a long time now, and I don't doubt that Ryan meant "black people" when he said "inner city." But even if it wasn't explicit racism, it's an oversimplification of a complex problem. What jobs are available for these black men to get? Does their education prepare them for these jobs? Does he think the problem with the rural white poor is that they just don't want to work?

If you listen to the interview, he was not discounting ANY of the poor in our country. He highlighted inner city, but discussed the "culture" of unemployment in our COMMUNITIES.

But he doesn't represent a city, he represents Janesville, WI where the face of the poor is white. Why didn't he talk about that? Look, I could dig it if a big swath of his district included an urban area, but it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They're both out of luck but the issue is of what you do about that bad luck. In those old broken down manufacturing communities anyone with a clue moved on to other towns with better prospects. We have people sitting around whining that there's no jobs and no opportunities even as millions of illegal immigrants come all the way here from places like Honduras and El Salvador with nothing but the shirt on their back, who ARE able to find jobs in construction, in restaurants, et cetera. And they are jobs that not only pay for food and a roof over their heads but also provide enough money for them to be able to send a big chunk of it home to their families in central America. That's millions of jobs that were there for the taking for Americans - but Americans turned their noses up at them. I had my share of hard times too, had to work 2 and 3 jobs at a time, went for stretches where I barely had $7 a week to put food on the table, had to move several times because I couldn't afford to live where I was or had to move because work was drying up, so the whining and excuse-making that I constantly hear is really just a bunch of pure crap to me.

People forget why Detroit grew so large to start with--for the jobs. North Dakota has jobs now, but people would rather stay put and collect welfare or food stamps.

The entire population of North Dakota is the same size as the District. They have had a recent boom due to tracking, so people with mining skills are in demand. There are 20,000 job openings in North Dakota right now, and they will all get filled. And some of those people will have moved to get them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

yeah, cause it is so easy to sell's one underwater house and extricate yourself and kids from your social networks. That's why no family is ever sad when they move.

Do you really think all the people who came to America came for adventure? They came because of work--except for the ones who came for freedom.

This may be the best non sequitur of the thread....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bill Cosby pretty much says the same thing.

And Chris Rock.

Chris Rock saying it makes it true?
And when did Chris Rock say this?

Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, and many other members of this country's minority communities have the courage to challenge the narratives crafted by politicians to try to start meaningful, honest dialog on the issue of race.

They should be commendeds , not attacked.

You have no idea what u are talking about. And guess what not all black folk think alike and lady I looked neither of these dudes were elected spokesperson for any group of people.
P. S. Dare u to ask Chris Rock if he thinks Paul Ryan is racist!