Something I don't understand about criticism of big families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between changing the occasional diaper and being in charge, full time, of your sibling. If you watch the "19 Kids and Counting" show, you will see the older siblings are given "buddies". They are fully responsible for the care of their buddy. That is a far cry from helping every once in a while.

Not all large families are like this. However, the one that has been heavily discussed on this board is.

I went to school with a girl whose mother had six other children and my schoolmate essentially raised them. She changed their diapers, washed their clothes, ironed them, bathed them, and was cooking for them at age six. Her father worked two jobs. There is everything wrong with this. "Would you please bring mommy a diaper for your little sister?" is one thing, doing a mother's job is quite another. You want a large fily, fine, but the mother takes care of them and hires someone to help. Otherwise, they end up like my friend who said she wanted no children because she had already raised six. Does this answer you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the bitter old hags who criticize big families. We have a great many of them in our area. And increasingly, I feel like having a big family in this day and age is a political act. They are the homeschooling, right-wing types who practice Natural Family Planning but can't seem to get it right. And more annoying that that, they are in my way. When we are at swimming lessons or dance, the moms are the ones sitting on their asses letting their kids throw the free newspapers on the ground or stick pencils in their eyes. They are the kids drowning in the swimming pool. One of them is always MIA. Hey wanna-be Mrs Duggars of the world, watch your children. I often wonder, I only have two kids why do I seem busier or more harried than Mrs. Duggar who is over there lounging b/c she's tired. She's pregnant again, of course. So her kids are out playing in traffic or the older ones have the little ones (maybe). The other day I saw one mom really berating her 7 (?) old for not watching the little ones. That just isn't right.

+1

News Flash: Everyone does not agree that your brood of 10 or however many you have, is charming, especially when you take them all everywhere you go.

I also agree that it is the super-breeder moms who are, in many cases, the laziest ones. They think all they have to do is give birth and breast feed and the rest of the family will wait on them hand and foot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the bitter old hags who criticize big families. We have a great many of them in our area. And increasingly, I feel like having a big family in this day and age is a political act. They are the homeschooling, right-wing types who practice Natural Family Planning but can't seem to get it right. And more annoying that that, they are in my way. When we are at swimming lessons or dance, the moms are the ones sitting on their asses letting their kids throw the free newspapers on the ground or stick pencils in their eyes. They are the kids drowning in the swimming pool. One of them is always MIA. Hey wanna-be Mrs Duggars of the world, watch your children. I often wonder, I only have two kids why do I seem busier or more harried than Mrs. Duggar who is over there lounging b/c she's tired. She's pregnant again, of course. So her kids are out playing in traffic or the older ones have the little ones (maybe). The other day I saw one mom really berating her 7 (?) old for not watching the little ones. That just isn't right.

+1

News Flash: Everyone does not agree that your brood of 10 or however many you have, is charming, especially when you take them all everywhere you go.

I also agree that it is the super-breeder moms who are, in many cases, the laziest ones. They think all they have to do is give birth and breast feed and the rest of the family will wait on them hand and foot.

This. At some point you aren't a mother to all these kids. You have given birth to them but they are raised by siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the bitter old hags who criticize big families. We have a great many of them in our area. And increasingly, I feel like having a big family in this day and age is a political act. They are the homeschooling, right-wing types who practice Natural Family Planning but can't seem to get it right. And more annoying that that, they are in my way. When we are at swimming lessons or dance, the moms are the ones sitting on their asses letting their kids throw the free newspapers on the ground or stick pencils in their eyes. They are the kids drowning in the swimming pool. One of them is always MIA. Hey wanna-be Mrs Duggars of the world, watch your children. I often wonder, I only have two kids why do I seem busier or more harried than Mrs. Duggar who is over there lounging b/c she's tired. She's pregnant again, of course. So her kids are out playing in traffic or the older ones have the little ones (maybe). The other day I saw one mom really berating her 7 (?) old for not watching the little ones. That just isn't right.

+1

News Flash: Everyone does not agree that your brood of 10 or however many you have, is charming, especially when you take them all everywhere you go.

I also agree that it is the super-breeder moms who are, in many cases, the laziest ones. They think all they have to do is give birth and breast feed and the rest of the family will wait on them hand and foot.

This. At some point you aren't a mother to all these kids. You have given birth to them but they are raised by siblings.

I didn't intend to post again, but I hate to have the thread end on such a negative note.

As a mother of many in a community and extended family of many large families, I implore onlookers to approach us with charity, instead of preconceived notions. Saying mothers of many are often "lazy" flies in the face of common sense. It is an enormous amount of manual labor just to keep everyone healthy and getting where they need to be--labor that goes unseen and unappreciated, usually.

Look, I'll be completely honest: some moms get overwhelmed, some have issues with depression, some just can't figure things out. And when you have six or eight little souls depending on you, your shortcomings impact more people. So even though these struggles are common to mothers of any size family, the effect is more significant. To whom much has been given, much is expected.

But something that makes an already enormous task even harder? Dealing with social disapproval, constant nitpicking, a general sense that "you brought this on yourself," or "see? You are not good enough"--these things drain the soul. They leave you feeling isolated, under attack, and hopeless.

So try kindness. Remember that you only see a snapshot. That just as a screaming tantrum might be autism spectrum, or those tired eyes might be because her husband is deployed, that little girl might actually like carrying her baby brother around.

Being open to children was the norm for most of human history, and the reasons for continuing family life that way now simply don't register for many people. But we are doing our best, just like 2.1 children families, and we will have to answer for our actions. It's so much more productive to raise each other up than beat each other down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the bitter old hags who criticize big families. We have a great many of them in our area. And increasingly, I feel like having a big family in this day and age is a political act. They are the homeschooling, right-wing types who practice Natural Family Planning but can't seem to get it right. And more annoying that that, they are in my way. When we are at swimming lessons or dance, the moms are the ones sitting on their asses letting their kids throw the free newspapers on the ground or stick pencils in their eyes. They are the kids drowning in the swimming pool. One of them is always MIA. Hey wanna-be Mrs Duggars of the world, watch your children. I often wonder, I only have two kids why do I seem busier or more harried than Mrs. Duggar who is over there lounging b/c she's tired. She's pregnant again, of course. So her kids are out playing in traffic or the older ones have the little ones (maybe). The other day I saw one mom really berating her 7 (?) old for not watching the little ones. That just isn't right.

+1

News Flash: Everyone does not agree that your brood of 10 or however many you have, is charming, especially when you take them all everywhere you go.

I also agree that it is the super-breeder moms who are, in many cases, the laziest ones. They think all they have to do is give birth and breast feed and the rest of the family will wait on them hand and foot.

This. At some point you aren't a mother to all these kids. You have given birth to them but they are raised by siblings.

I didn't intend to post again, but I hate to have the thread end on such a negative note.

As a mother of many in a community and extended family of many large families, I implore onlookers to approach us with charity, instead of preconceived notions. Saying mothers of many are often "lazy" flies in the face of common sense. It is an enormous amount of manual labor just to keep everyone healthy and getting where they need to be--labor that goes unseen and unappreciated, usually.

Look, I'll be completely honest: some moms get overwhelmed, some have issues with depression, some just can't figure things out. And when you have six or eight little souls depending on you, your shortcomings impact more people. So even though these struggles are common to mothers of any size family, the effect is more significant. To whom much has been given, much is expected.

But something that makes an already enormous task even harder? Dealing with social disapproval, constant nitpicking, a general sense that "you brought this on yourself," or "see? You are not good enough"--these things drain the soul. They leave you feeling isolated, under attack, and hopeless.

So try kindness. Remember that you only see a snapshot. That just as a screaming tantrum might be autism spectrum, or those tired eyes might be because her husband is deployed, that little girl might actually like carrying her baby brother around.

Being open to children was the norm for most of human history, and the reasons for continuing family life that way now simply don't register for many people. But we are doing our best, just like 2.1 children families, and we will have to answer for our actions. It's so much more productive to raise each other up than beat each other down.

You DID bring it on yourself!!! I really don't have any sympathy for anyone who has 4+ kids and can't seem to get a handle on them or their life. And all this bullshit about "being open to children" is getting on my last nerve. For most of human history, most children did not survive childhood. But now that we are all living into our 70's and 80's having that many children is just plain selfish.

I will give you the evil eye if you and your brood are in my way or your children are ill behaved and you are not doing a thing about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: You DID bring it on yourself!!! I really don't have any sympathy for anyone who has 4+ kids and can't seem to get a handle on them or their life. And all this bullshit about "being open to children" is getting on my last nerve. For most of human history, most children did not survive childhood. But now that we are all living into our 70's and 80's having that many children is just plain selfish.

I will give you the evil eye if you and your brood are in my way or your children are ill behaved and you are not doing a thing about it.

Something tells me when you are old and broke and wanting to draw social security and can't because the baby boomer generation sucked it dry by not saving and refusing to die and refusing to let their parents die at natural ages and staying alive way too long at tax payer expense...THEN I suspect you'll suddenly (much too late) see the wisdom behind having many children. You see, unlike the person you quoted, and the OP, you will have no one to care for you in your old age. Your children, should you maintain any type of relationship with them, will put you in the cheapest raisin ranch medicaid will pay for so as not to eat up their inheritance. OP will have 10 kids to rotate between, and in all likelihood will live a longer healthier life since there have been studies indicating people with more children tend to do so. Fewer children being born into the next generation also means fewer workers for the next generation...fewer doctors, nurses, CNA's, housekeepers, cooks....fewer of the kind of people you will depend on as you age. Think about it.

[Anonymous]

The "General Parenting" forum is filled with Moms saying they're overwhelmed, don't know how others do it, are exhausted, etc. And this is with 1 or 2 children. So, don't say Moms with more children are more tired. It's BS. All Moms get tired. All Moms get lazy at times. Don't make this a thing where Moms with more children are just sitting back letting the kids take care of their siblings. I have 4 children and wouldn't dream of letting my oldest (16) care for my youngest (2.5). As I mentioned earlier in this thread, she's not maternal in the least and I don't want anyone parenting my child but me and my husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As a mother of many in a community and extended family of many large families, I implore onlookers to approach us with charity, instead of preconceived notions. Saying mothers of many are often "lazy" flies in the face of common sense. It is an enormous amount of manual labor just to keep everyone healthy and getting where they need to be--labor that goes unseen and unappreciated, usually.

Look, I'll be completely honest: some moms get overwhelmed, some have issues with depression, some just can't figure things out. And when you have six or eight little souls depending on you, your shortcomings impact more people. So even though these struggles are common to mothers of any size family, the effect is more significant. To whom much has been given, much is expected.

But something that makes an already enormous task even harder? Dealing with social disapproval, constant nitpicking, a general sense that "you brought this on yourself," or "see? You are not good enough"--these things drain the soul. They leave you feeling isolated, under attack, and hopeless.

So try kindness. Remember that you only see a snapshot. That just as a screaming tantrum might be autism spectrum, or those tired eyes might be because her husband is deployed, that little girl might actually like carrying her baby brother around.

Being open to children was the norm for most of human history, and the reasons for continuing family life that way now simply don't register for many people. But we are doing our best, just like 2.1 children families, and we will have to answer for our actions. It's so much more productive to raise each other up than beat each other down.

pre-birth control
religion being perceived as "science"
children used as workers

Are you seriously comparing then to now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: You DID bring it on yourself!!! I really don't have any sympathy for anyone who has 4+ kids and can't seem to get a handle on them or their life. And all this bullshit about "being open to children" is getting on my last nerve. For most of human history, most children did not survive childhood. But now that we are all living into our 70's and 80's having that many children is just plain selfish.

I will give you the evil eye if you and your brood are in my way or your children are ill behaved and you are not doing a thing about it.

Something tells me when you are old and broke and wanting to draw social security and can't because the baby boomer generation sucked it dry by not saving and refusing to die and refusing to let their parents die at natural ages and staying alive way too long at tax payer expense...THEN I suspect you'll suddenly (much too late) see the wisdom behind having many children. You see, unlike the person you quoted, and the OP, you will have no one to care for you in your old age. Your children, should you maintain any type of relationship with them, will put you in the cheapest raisin ranch medicaid will pay for so as not to eat up their inheritance. OP will have 10 kids to rotate between, and in all likelihood will live a longer healthier life since there have been studies indicating people with more children tend to do so. Fewer children being born into the next generation also means fewer workers for the next generation...fewer doctors, nurses, CNA's, housekeepers, cooks....fewer of the kind of people you will depend on as you age. Think about it.

Wow - I've posted a few times that most have kids for selfish reasons. Thanks for backing me up.

FWIW, I'm an only who helped Mom when she insisted on keeping my father home when he fell ill. 7 years later, when he finally died in his in-home hospital bed, neither one of us regretted the sacrifice.

And in regard to your comment about creating future workers . . . You do realize that with the way the economy is tanking, what "Duggar-type" family can afford college? What Kate Plus Eight brood can be guaranteed a job? Have you seen other posters - educated, experienced and holding many degrees - complain about being out of a job for MONTHS?

SIMPLETON

It must be nice living in your head - lots of free space to roam about.

You are quite the simpleton, PP. I find that most breeders have the intellect of a fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the bitter old hags who criticize big families. We have a great many of them in our area. And increasingly, I feel like having a big family in this day and age is a political act. They are the homeschooling, right-wing types who practice Natural Family Planning but can't seem to get it right. And more annoying that that, they are in my way. When we are at swimming lessons or dance, the moms are the ones sitting on their asses letting their kids throw the free newspapers on the ground or stick pencils in their eyes. They are the kids drowning in the swimming pool. One of them is always MIA. Hey wanna-be Mrs Duggars of the world, watch your children. I often wonder, I only have two kids why do I seem busier or more harried than Mrs. Duggar who is over there lounging b/c she's tired. She's pregnant again, of course. So her kids are out playing in traffic or the older ones have the little ones (maybe). The other day I saw one mom really berating her 7 (?) old for not watching the little ones. That just isn't right.

+1

News Flash: Everyone does not agree that your brood of 10 or however many you have, is charming, especially when you take them all everywhere you go.

I also agree that it is the super-breeder moms who are, in many cases, the laziest ones. They think all they have to do is give birth and breast feed and the rest of the family will wait on them hand and foot.

This. At some point you aren't a mother to all these kids. You have given birth to them but they are raised by siblings.

I didn't intend to post again, but I hate to have the thread end on such a negative note.

As a mother of many in a community and extended family of many large families, I implore onlookers to approach us with charity, instead of preconceived notions. Saying mothers of many are often "lazy" flies in the face of common sense. It is an enormous amount of manual labor just to keep everyone healthy and getting where they need to be--labor that goes unseen and unappreciated, usually.

Look, I'll be completely honest: some moms get overwhelmed, some have issues with depression, some just can't figure things out. And when you have six or eight little souls depending on you, your shortcomings impact more people. So even though these struggles are common to mothers of any size family, the effect is more significant. To whom much has been given, much is expected.

But something that makes an already enormous task even harder? Dealing with social disapproval, constant nitpicking, a general sense that "you brought this on yourself," or "see? You are not good enough"--these things drain the soul. They leave you feeling isolated, under attack, and hopeless.

So try kindness. Remember that you only see a snapshot. That just as a screaming tantrum might be autism spectrum, or those tired eyes might be because her husband is deployed, that little girl might actually like carrying her baby brother around.

Being open to children was the norm for most of human history, and the reasons for continuing family life that way now simply don't register for many people. But we are doing our best, just like 2.1 children families, and we will have to answer for our actions. It's so much more productive to raise each other up than beat each other down.

It's nice of you to try, but anybody who's fixating on your family size isn't worth worrying about, let alone attempting to engage with reasonable discussion. Personally, although I grew up in a horrible big family, I'm neutral on family size because it's none of my business what size family someone else chooses to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: You DID bring it on yourself!!! I really don't have any sympathy for anyone who has 4+ kids and can't seem to get a handle on them or their life. And all this bullshit about "being open to children" is getting on my last nerve. For most of human history, most children did not survive childhood. But now that we are all living into our 70's and 80's having that many children is just plain selfish.

I will give you the evil eye if you and your brood are in my way or your children are ill behaved and you are not doing a thing about it.

Something tells me when you are old and broke and wanting to draw social security and can't because the baby boomer generation sucked it dry by not saving and refusing to die and refusing to let their parents die at natural ages and staying alive way too long at tax payer expense...THEN I suspect you'll suddenly (much too late) see the wisdom behind having many children. You see, unlike the person you quoted, and the OP, you will have no one to care for you in your old age. Your children, should you maintain any type of relationship with them, will put you in the cheapest raisin ranch medicaid will pay for so as not to eat up their inheritance. OP will have 10 kids to rotate between, and in all likelihood will live a longer healthier life since there have been studies indicating people with more children tend to do so. Fewer children being born into the next generation also means fewer workers for the next generation...fewer doctors, nurses, CNA's, housekeepers, cooks....fewer of the kind of people you will depend on as you age. Think about it.

This may be true in your fantasy world, but it may not really work out this way. I come from a large family. Our family dynamic was horrible growing up because of the family size. Now, in their old age, my parents often don't have any of us with them on holidays. If someone has to care for them, it will likely be my sister or I. Certainly, the rest will not be taking their turn in the rotation. I am not nearly as code to my parents as my DH (who is one of two) or friends with smaller families.

[Anonymous]

I grew up at a time when large families were much more common. I grew up in a family of four. I knew many many families with 7 (7 seemed to be the magic number back then. Even the most dedicated mom started practicing some form of birth control after 7 at that time.) In families with more than 2 or 3 (depending on the fortitude of the mother), you would see the older kids who were polished, mature kids with high grades and younger children who were the wildest, most out-of-control kid in the school. The mom just wore out. She just couldn't maintain the discipline and give the attention. Now, some of these wilder-than-sin kids went on to have interesting lives. And certainly they provided amusement to the community with their antics. But, if you are thinking of having a large family, remember you are not only putting a burden on the oldest (who will grow up at an early age) but on the youngest, who may barely graduate high school. That said: all lives have pain, so if this is what you are led to do, go for it. Just go for it with open eyes and don't be surprised by the result. (although, now, I know several large families whose children are all amazing students. I have no idea how the family does it, but suspect strong paternal involvement, to aid the poor mom. that didn't happen in my youth.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "General Parenting" forum is filled with Moms saying they're overwhelmed, don't know how others do it, are exhausted, etc. And this is with 1 or 2 children. So, don't say Moms with more children are more tired. It's BS. All Moms get tired. All Moms get lazy at times. Don't make this a thing where Moms with more children are just sitting back letting the kids take care of their siblings. I have 4 children and wouldn't dream of letting my oldest (16) care for my youngest (2.5). As I mentioned earlier in this thread, she's not maternal in the least and I don't want anyone parenting my child but me and my husband.

This is sometimes due to modern developments
* moms who work outside the home
* moms who live far away from their parents, in-laws, brothers, sisters
* more fun available (in the old days, by far the vast majority of people lived on a farm, and the choice of cleaning up kids or milking cows doesn't bring tears like the choice between light work at an office in nice clothes and going out to lunch versus cleaning up after kids)

(although, obviously, not entirely due to this. being a mom is very very hard work)

[Anonymous]

"Open to children" is Catholic Speak. Why anyone today would cede over their uterus to the Catholic Church is beyond me. I think that bunch squandered their moral authority a long time ago by protecting pedophiles and allowing them to abuse more and more innocent children, not to mention their fundamental disprect of women. Encouraging women to bear children until their innards fall out is madness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Open to children" is Catholic Speak. Why anyone today would cede over their uterus to the Catholic Church is beyond me. I think that bunch squandered their moral authority a long time ago by protecting pedophiles and allowing them to abuse more and more innocent children, not to mention their fundamental disprect of women. Encouraging women to bear children until their innards fall out is madness.

It's not just Catholic. There are several other religions that encourage "openness" to children.