Who Scams You More for Money - Dentists or Veterinarians?
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Anonymous
I don't see how this was the vet's fault. They basically told you that most likely, there's going to be no problem, but also let you know that there was a chance it could be fatal. If they hadn't told you about that chance of it being fatal, and your dog died... wouldn't you think that vet to be horrible? Instead, they gave you the odds that your dog would be fine, but also offered a treatment for the off chance that it was going to cause a problem. The vet in no way forced you to have the procedure done... that was your choice and your choice alone. All the vet did was provide you with the options available. |
Anonymous
why in the world is making money considered unethical? don't all of you make money in your professions? |
Anonymous
since when was going to the vet ever free? you used to go to vets that didn't charge you an office visit? also... i don't know if you've ever been to any medical professional, but typically you need to run tests to find a diagnosis...they aren't psychics. |
Anonymous
| Have any of you ever compared your veterinary bill to your physician bill? I have. My dog needed a c-section when her puppies got stuck in the birth canal. I, too, needed a c-section for my baby to be delivered. The vet bill was about $1100. The bill for my c-section delivery? 10K+. The care was pretty similar, yet the dog c-section cost nearly 10 times less than mine. The thing is, we don't see our medical bills because insurance pays most of those bills (I paid $250 out of pocket for my c-section) for us. So, let's not complain about our veterinary bills without looking at the larger picture: vets provide our animals with very similar, if not better (I get a faster response with results from my veterinarian when my dog needs labwork done than I do from my physician), care to what our physicians provide for us at a MUCH lower cost. |
Anonymous
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Hi. I am a veterinarian. Thanks to those who support us. To the others, some of the comments are beyond off base.
To clarify: (1) Generally, it's harder to get into vet school. There are only about 27 of them. I've never once met a vet who couldn't get into medical school, but I'm constantly scared by doctors and dentists I meet who reveal to me that they couldn't get into vet school like they wanted. Last year, I helped my mother with her medical problems, and I was constantly disappointed and underwhelmed by the care (and caring) provided. My own mother would be dead from one of the 12 medications prescribed to her at the same time. She had low blood pressure and was on a medication to lower it even further and couldn't figure out why she kept passing out all the time. She thought her cancer had returned, when really, she was being killed by carelessness. When I went to the doctor to ask, she only needed 4 of them anyway. Because my patients usually don't have health care and because most owners have financial constraints, this doesn't usually happen in vet med. That's because I AGONIZE over cost issues and over the optimization of diagnostics and treatment so that I can provide great care for an affordable cost. 12 medications? I spend countless hours agonizing over estimates and looking for ways for my clients to cut costs so they can afford the best care because I want their pet to do well. I spend time at night researching all the alternative medicines owners seem to want to spend tons of money on so that I can also let them know whether they are being ripped off or not and whether it makes good financial sense. Why do I do this? Because I actually care. (2) We use the same medicines, machines, techniques and equipment as dentists and doctors. We charge much less for their use. To avoid malpractice and provide quality care, we can't cut corners either. It's not like you can just re-use dirty syringes in animals and expect them to remain healthy or not sterilize surgical packs or magically look at an animal's blood in a tube and know that a patient has kidney failure. You actually need a machine that costs money to run the blood and find out values, and in a better practice, you also need a trained technician to also look at the blood smear and make sure that machine cell counts are correct. Shocking as it may be to some of you, those CT scans, MRIs, ultrasound and X-ray machines - they're not free or donated to veterinarians. We have to buy them. And yet, to practice good care, we have to do the same things as other medical professionals. We just make less doing it. (3) Yes, we make less. Nationwide, the average annual salary for a veterinarian is MUCH less than $100,000 (closer to $50,000), and yet we have the same or more training than chiropractors, dentists, and doctors. We have the same or more debts, though we probably drive fewer BMWs and Mercedes Benz's. We work the same or more hours, and we often work in worse conditions. (4) Whoever complained about our student loans - you're right. We have bills to pay. You do too. You work to pay yours off and probably feel that you should be able to earn a wage that covers your debts. We do too. If we cannot make a living wage that covers our debts by being veterinarians, then it only makes sense that we (1) charge what we need to charge so that we can make a living wage OR (2) go into other professions. Perhaps, from the sound of it, we all should become something more noble, like hairdressers, accountants, or stock brokers. Think about it though. If we all left the profession because we couldn't afford to make a living wage, then the next time your dog is hit by a car or your cat eats your tylenol or your puppy has parvo, then you can take your "beloved" pet in the back yard and shoot it instead. Bullets are really, really cheap in comparison to quality vet care, and it sounds like many of you would prefer paying those costs instead of paying for services from your vet. Cheap "veterinary" care results in suboptimal outcomes, but it sounds as though it would make many of you happier people. (4) Vets DON'T go into the profession for money. Personally, I COURTESY services more or less on a weekly basis for clients who are struggling financially. This comes out of MY paycheck. I have paid personally for euthanasia and private cremation costs. I have accepted no exam fees or reduced ones on countless occasions. If we have free drug for whatever reason (donations, etc.), I give it for free to clients who can least afford it. In addition to financial sacrifice, I spend my free time trying to help clients find sources of medications elsewhere that are cheaper if those clients are motivated to make the extra effort and cannot afford them at my practice. I have also looked for and found online sources of aid for clients who have a hard time with their vet bills, ie, the Riedel Cody fund. I have also spent hours upon hours of unpaid time writing a website with FREE veterinary information and advice for clients because I want ALL of you to make the best decisions for your pets and be well educated so that you can make them. And since I am a specialist (12 years post-graduate education tacked on), I also spend countless hours of my own free time counseling referring veterinarians on how they can help clients in their practices so that those clients can save money instead of coming to mine. And I am not alone. But please. The caring of veterinarians doesn't stop there. I've personally awakened at 2 in the morning to drive 50 minutes into work to be with and comfort an owner whose pet is doing poorly simply because I knew the owner's mother had just died and was doubly upset. We actually care. In fact, I am MORE upset if the emergency room doesn't call me at 10 pm on a Friday night than if they do to ask a question. And yes, I have cried WITH you over the loss of your pet. I have donated in honor and memory of your pet. I do it every time. I have written you all cards of sympathy. And yet, in my life, I have never once had an accountant, banker, broker, hairdresser, doctor, lawyer, pilates instructor, or dentist do anything more for me than send me a thank you for spending money or a stock birthday card offering a 10% discount on services. And I am NOT alone. I bow down to the goodness of some of my colleagues and classmates. I know many do the same kinds of things. And to the ones who donate services and go on trips to remote, impoverished places to spay and neuter and vaccinate for free, to the ones who work in rescue organizations, to the people at OSU who give out free drug to greyhounds diagnosed with cancer, to all of those out there, I bow down to you and respect you all. Not a one of them are trying to hoodwink you out of a dime. It's just that at the end of the day, we all have to be able to put food on our family's plates, and we all have to go home knowing that the care we provided was quality and good. Veterinary medicine has real costs. We are not millionaires and cannot pay those costs for you gratis. Veterinary medicine is not in and of itself a charity, though my work and training relative to my pay often makes it feel like one. Bottom line - if you don't want to pay these costs for yourself, don't own a pet. It's not cheap, just like a child. If you want to be a responsible pet owner, put away a few thousand in a mutual fund each year for potential pet health care costs OR purchase health insurance for your pet so that you can afford to give your pet the care it deserves. I assume you plan for you kid's college education, ballet and tennis lessons, braces, and so on. Why don't you give some consideration to the pet who loves you as well? Because "being strict" or having to "check(ed)" or "putting a limit on what you're going to pay" your veterinarian hurts only one creature on this earth - your own pet. |
Anonymous
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Another veterinarian here. 9:51, I love you. Thank you so much for writing such a well-put, well-thought out response. I've been trying to formulate one all night, but I was a bit too upset and taken aback by all the vet-hating on this thread to come up with something coherent and thoughtful. So, thank you.
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Anonymous
Excellent post, 9:51. I am not a vet or a dentist, but I'm also in a profession where many people don't realize that we have bills to pay and that when you pay use $3,000, we're not banking all of that- way, way less.
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Anonymous
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my wife is a dentist and made about $130K last year. She is on her feet all day, patients complain and employees are difficult to manage. Very VERY stressful job.
And very little profit, especially if the dentist participates with dental insurance (fee for service dentists make MUCH more). i..e, if your crown cost you $1,200 through your insurance, the lab bill might be $400 alone, and the equipment another few hundred. Not much profit for the dentist for hours of work. The big practices make money just through volume - having a zillion hygeinists (sp???) churning out teeth cleanings all day. My wife prefers a small family practice so she does her own teeth cleanings and thus the profits are much lower. and forget about maternity leave! |
Anonymous
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9:51, as a past (and I hope future) pet owner, thank you for your work and your post.
The title of this thread makes me nuts. Asking to be paid for one's work is not a scam. |
Anonymous
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9:51 - Thank you for saying something that I could not have said as well. I am also a veterinarian and was so hurt and offended by some of the comments I wasn't sure how to respond. The most I found was this article to express some of the very same thoughts you expressed very well.
http://www.yumasun.com/opinion/yuma-69331-care-ford.html |
Anonymous
| About 8 years ago I went to a dentist in Arlington (Gentry and Coutin for those that are interested) and they told me I had something like 7 cavities and it was going to be really expensive for me to fill them...I can't remember the charge, but it was too much for me in my early to mid 20s. My uncle is a dentist in Fl. so I decided to wait until I went down there for a visit so he could fix me up for free. He did the xrays, and low and behold he told me I had no cavities. He said sometimes, and it's unfortunate, dentists will do these types of things. I was horrified. |
Anonymous
| PP here. I want to state for the record that I do not think of dentists as scammers...I just had one bad experience. |
Anonymous
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I do think PP's post about this area charging more is accurate though. When I had to get my newly adopted cat neutered and declawed (I know...) I was blown away by the fees local vets charged. I ended up going to a vet in a small town 3 counties away where the fees were at least 50% less for 150% more care and caretaking. His overnight stay wasn't "extra", it was just assumed he would stay overnight due to the surgery.
As a result, anytime my pets need a vet visit, we make the drive (1 hr+) to go to the small town vet who has a big heart and low overhead. |
Anonymous
| I don't have trouble with vets, because i just get what is required. If Fifi gets cancer, I will not know because the diagnostic tests will not even be done. |
Anonymous
| I worked for a dentist who was always filling cavities that weren't there. Also, she would say that someone had a loose filling when it seemed fine to me. She said that at the end of evey day she had to make $1000. |