Has anyone ever had successful marriage counseling?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

No one on the receiving end of this will take kind of backing into a corner seriously. Yes, you can just say you are going to go out of town and leave your kids with your husband, a unilateral decision. But don't play around with words and make it sound like it is his choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

I tried that. Invited to a hike to a national park... during which he took off as he wanted to go to a restricted area (guarded off) and I refused. I ended up hiking alone. In a bear country. Of course it was not completely unexpected, as he had left me with little kids on trails on numerous occasions earlier in our marriage, when a 3-4-5 yo couldn't keep up with his pace. Just like OP husband, he hasn't planned a single meal, holiday, vacation, sports event, even his own family visits or anything one can think of. It's as if he's just waiting on the sidelines for life to happen.

I completely get you, OP. I don't think counseling will help as in the end, he doesn't want to change. He's happy he doesn't have to do anything and doesn't even have to think of anything. He's happy in his "marriage" with a wonderful wife and wonderful kids, who managed to grow up all by themselves in his opinion. This one poster here who thinks that in addition to our mental load, we should be WRITING LISTS of the mental load gives you an idea of how these men think.

DP

You planned a hike with children in bear country knowing your husband would likely leave you behind, because he did before?

You both sound unfit for children and marriage.

These 2 are separate: leaving me alone and leaving me with kids alone on separate occasions. These were not the same trails. I obviously didn't plan on him leaving me/kids behind. That trip was the last one I took with him. Yes, I've raised the kids on my own (they're now young adults) as he turned out to be unreliable. Meaning, it's not SO EASY to invite a man along and hope that this will make him get involved or perhaps reciprocate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah! It helped us a ton. I don't think either of us felt super close to divorcing, though. But it did help us get better at conflict. It didn't change anyone, really, it just helped us maybe understand each other a little more.

+1. Getting trained in Imago therapy helped us immensely- coming up on 25 year and strong

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/imago-relationship-therapy/amp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are equating knowing when soccer pickup is with loving and respecting you, and they have zero connection. It’s annoying he doesn’t know but it’s not likely a personal thing. I think you should pursue counseling.

It’s the mental load. Why is it always the wife’s job and why are people always trying to pretend it doesn’t matter or men don’t need to worry about it?

Because none of this is the wife’s job. In my house, my dad did all of this, while my mom earned the money. Even if she hadn’t been the breadwinner though, she wouldn’t have done any of it because she was never interested in raising kids. She just wanted to have them.

The point is, if you don’t want to do everything, don’t. Ask your husband to do it. If he won’t do it, either accept that it won’t be done, or divorce and look for a man who is interested in getting these things done. They are out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think keeping track of the kids’ activity schedules and when they need to be picked up is non-essential. The vacations might be, but the kids’ schedules are not.

Why are you doing this in the first place? We have a shared calendar— all activities go on that calendar, and we discuss who is responsible for what at the start of each season/camp/activity. What is there to keep track of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar boat. I am having a hard time understanding how men seem ok to go through life without true emotional intimacy, a mutually supportive partnership, or any interest in the deep and complex person the mother of their children is.

You may need to divorce .. Ehh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think keeping track of the kids’ activity schedules and when they need to be picked up is non-essential. The vacations might be, but the kids’ schedules are not.

Why are you doing this in the first place? We have a shared calendar— all activities go on that calendar, and we discuss who is responsible for what at the start of each season/camp/activity. What is there to keep track of?

+1

We use voice assistant calendar. Calendar management is a near-zero effort task.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

I tried that. Invited to a hike to a national park... during which he took off as he wanted to go to a restricted area (guarded off) and I refused. I ended up hiking alone. In a bear country. Of course it was not completely unexpected, as he had left me with little kids on trails on numerous occasions earlier in our marriage, when a 3-4-5 yo couldn't keep up with his pace. Just like OP husband, he hasn't planned a single meal, holiday, vacation, sports event, even his own family visits or anything one can think of. It's as if he's just waiting on the sidelines for life to happen.

I completely get you, OP. I don't think counseling will help as in the end, he doesn't want to change. He's happy he doesn't have to do anything and doesn't even have to think of anything. He's happy in his "marriage" with a wonderful wife and wonderful kids, who managed to grow up all by themselves in his opinion. This one poster here who thinks that in addition to our mental load, we should be WRITING LISTS of the mental load gives you an idea of how these men think.

DP

You planned a hike with children in bear country knowing your husband would likely leave you behind, because he did before?

You both sound unfit for children and marriage.

These 2 are separate: leaving me alone and leaving me with kids alone on separate occasions. These were not the same trails. I obviously didn't plan on him leaving me/kids behind. That trip was the last one I took with him. Yes, I've raised the kids on my own (they're now young adults) as he turned out to be unreliable. Meaning, it's not SO EASY to invite a man along and hope that this will make him get involved or perhaps reciprocate.

The first time he abandoned you on the bear trail was on him; the second time he abandoned you on the bear trail was on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

I tried that. Invited to a hike to a national park... during which he took off as he wanted to go to a restricted area (guarded off) and I refused. I ended up hiking alone. In a bear country. Of course it was not completely unexpected, as he had left me with little kids on trails on numerous occasions earlier in our marriage, when a 3-4-5 yo couldn't keep up with his pace. Just like OP husband, he hasn't planned a single meal, holiday, vacation, sports event, even his own family visits or anything one can think of. It's as if he's just waiting on the sidelines for life to happen.

I completely get you, OP. I don't think counseling will help as in the end, he doesn't want to change. He's happy he doesn't have to do anything and doesn't even have to think of anything. He's happy in his "marriage" with a wonderful wife and wonderful kids, who managed to grow up all by themselves in his opinion. This one poster here who thinks that in addition to our mental load, we should be WRITING LISTS of the mental load gives you an idea of how these men think.

DP

You planned a hike with children in bear country knowing your husband would likely leave you behind, because he did before?

You both sound unfit for children and marriage.

These 2 are separate: leaving me alone and leaving me with kids alone on separate occasions. These were not the same trails. I obviously didn't plan on him leaving me/kids behind. That trip was the last one I took with him. Yes, I've raised the kids on my own (they're now young adults) as he turned out to be unreliable. Meaning, it's not SO EASY to invite a man along and hope that this will make him get involved or perhaps reciprocate.

The first time he abandoned you on the bear trail was on him; the second time he abandoned you on the bear trail was on you.

Try to keep track. The bear trail was once, when I was with him alone. That happened when kids were already launched. When kids were little, we didn't go on bear trails. That hike on bear trail was the last one I ever went with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are equating knowing when soccer pickup is with loving and respecting you, and they have zero connection. It’s annoying he doesn’t know but it’s not likely a personal thing. I think you should pursue counseling.

It’s the mental load. Why is it always the wife’s job and why are people always trying to pretend it doesn’t matter or men don’t need to worry about it?

Because none of this is the wife’s job. In my house, my dad did all of this, while my mom earned the money. Even if she hadn’t been the breadwinner though, she wouldn’t have done any of it because she was never interested in raising kids. She just wanted to have them.

The point is, if you don’t want to do everything, don’t. Ask your husband to do it. If he won’t do it, either accept that it won’t be done, or divorce and look for a man who is interested in getting these things done. They are out there.

I agree that the person who doesn't do mental load is the one who's actually not interested in raising kids, just in having them. So what do you do when neither parent wants to carry the mental load? The kids are already there.

[Anonymous]

Your mistake is thinking he is the source of your unhappiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think keeping track of the kids’ activity schedules and when they need to be picked up is non-essential. The vacations might be, but the kids’ schedules are not.

Why are you doing this in the first place? We have a shared calendar— all activities go on that calendar, and we discuss who is responsible for what at the start of each season/camp/activity. What is there to keep track of?

Ok, so I have a printed calendar on the fridge with schedules, as the spouse is not willing to sign up to TeamSnap nor other apps that have the schedules. He would never look at a shared calendar. He's not responsible for any season/camp/activity just like the OP's spouse. I have about 10 apps on my phone that I have only because of the kids. Nevertheless, he then calls with "when is this and this kid doing that" when he suddenly remembers that he has kids or maybe someone in the office mentioned they're taking their kid. You'd be surprised how impossible it is to involve someone who's just NOT INTERESTED, but then wants to pretend to be involved, which usually just resorts to drama. Like we're just about to leave when he calls and then demands why he was not told that a certain event was that day (even though it's in the calendar), resulting in him arguing how he's left out, me trying to keep my cool, and us being late, because he's going on and on on the phone. This is what OP and I am talking about. Not about a man who's able and willing to manage a shared calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah! It helped us a ton. I don't think either of us felt super close to divorcing, though. But it did help us get better at conflict. It didn't change anyone, really, it just helped us maybe understand each other a little more.

+1. Getting trained in Imago therapy helped us immensely- coming up on 25 year and strong

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/imago-relationship-therapy/amp

I looked at your link and don't really understand this. It says Imago therapy is focusing on how childhood formed our imago, and the person picks their spouse based on that level of comfort they felt in their childhood (familiar love), but then it results in a lot of conflict and frequent disputes. It's obvious that our childhood influences our behavior, but the rest, how does that make sense? Why would familiar love lead to conflict?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

I tried that. Invited to a hike to a national park... during which he took off as he wanted to go to a restricted area (guarded off) and I refused. I ended up hiking alone. In a bear country. Of course it was not completely unexpected, as he had left me with little kids on trails on numerous occasions earlier in our marriage, when a 3-4-5 yo couldn't keep up with his pace. Just like OP husband, he hasn't planned a single meal, holiday, vacation, sports event, even his own family visits or anything one can think of. It's as if he's just waiting on the sidelines for life to happen.

I completely get you, OP. I don't think counseling will help as in the end, he doesn't want to change. He's happy he doesn't have to do anything and doesn't even have to think of anything. He's happy in his "marriage" with a wonderful wife and wonderful kids, who managed to grow up all by themselves in his opinion. This one poster here who thinks that in addition to our mental load, we should be WRITING LISTS of the mental load gives you an idea of how these men think.

DP

You planned a hike with children in bear country knowing your husband would likely leave you behind, because he did before?

You both sound unfit for children and marriage.

These 2 are separate: leaving me alone and leaving me with kids alone on separate occasions. These were not the same trails. I obviously didn't plan on him leaving me/kids behind. That trip was the last one I took with him. Yes, I've raised the kids on my own (they're now young adults) as he turned out to be unreliable. Meaning, it's not SO EASY to invite a man along and hope that this will make him get involved or perhaps reciprocate.

The first time he abandoned you on the bear trail was on him; the second time he abandoned you on the bear trail was on you.

Try to keep track. The bear trail was once, when I was with him alone. That happened when kids were already launched. When kids were little, we didn't go on bear trails. That hike on bear trail was the last one I ever went with him.

I stand corrected: you were left alone on the bear trail once, hiking with the guy who has a well-established history of leaving you alone on hikes. Every other occasion you brought the children to be left alone on hiking trails, you did not encounter any bears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are equating knowing when soccer pickup is with loving and respecting you, and they have zero connection. It’s annoying he doesn’t know but it’s not likely a personal thing. I think you should pursue counseling.

It’s the mental load. Why is it always the wife’s job and why are people always trying to pretend it doesn’t matter or men don’t need to worry about it?

Because none of this is the wife’s job. In my house, my dad did all of this, while my mom earned the money. Even if she hadn’t been the breadwinner though, she wouldn’t have done any of it because she was never interested in raising kids. She just wanted to have them.

The point is, if you don’t want to do everything, don’t. Ask your husband to do it. If he won’t do it, either accept that it won’t be done, or divorce and look for a man who is interested in getting these things done. They are out there.

I agree that the person who doesn't do mental load is the one who's actually not interested in raising kids, just in having them. So what do you do when neither parent wants to carry the mental load? The kids are already there.

DP If neither parent is raising the children then you call CPS.