UVA deferral but UNC and Mich and UGA accepted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Oy it isn't yield protection. UVA does not yield protect.

But it does take a lot of out-of-state students (a much higher percentage than comparable state schools). And it does feel a responsibility to limit how many students from Northern Virginia so that it can take some from the Rest of Virginia.

And it, of course, limits how many it takes from a particular high school in NOVA. These are not quotas or hard limits but they are a reality and it hurts TJ more than any other school, then probably the most high performing HS in Virginia (the McLeans and Langleys) and then of course the private high schools.

All of those schools have far more applicants who would likely be accepted if they were from Roanoke than those who actually get in.

In other words, it is not yield protection, it is that your peers are very strong. It feels unfair but that is the reality in a lot of schools.

Spot on. OP, why not just accept this common sense explanation? Why do you insist on making it into a conspiracy? Is your very accomplished kid so fragile that he or she can't handle one deferral?

DP. Don’t live in Virginia, didn’t apply to UVA, but kids getting in to HYP but not UVA seems like obvious yield protection to me.

In my opinion the burden is on the people saying that UVA doesn’t yield protect to show that UVA in-state has a lower admissions rate and a higher SAT range than HYP.

If you can’t show that, all this chatter about how UVA is actually, secretly, far more selective than any other school on earth is just nonsense.

You're mentioning completely outlier situations. Very few people get into HYP and are rejected from UVA. It is possible that someone with a very specific hook gets into a particular Ivy but does not get into UVA.

Look... how do we know that UVA does not yield protect? First of all, it wouldn't make sense. There are incredibly strong students who are accepted to Ivies but choose UVA because of the money. Second, my kids go to one of the strongest NOVA high schools. I have seen the scattergrams and the top right corner is a sea of green with an occasional red X. Schools that yield protect do not look like this. Period. They don't.

Absolutely no one has said that UVA has a lower admissions rate or a higher SAT range than HYP. That would be patently false.

The kid I know who got into Yale but not UVA was OOS and had no Yale-specific hooks. Super-strong, well-rounded student.

My sense is that UVA yield protects for OOS admissions, not in-state. They know that they have a good chance of yielding in-state students because of tuition. But OOS is much more challenging with costs not much lower than those of private schools.

I see the opposite from UVA at the 2 top DMV privates my kids attended and my 3rd kid (a senior) attends. UVA has a GPA line. If you're over it, you're in. If you're under it, you're not. OOS vs in-state does not really matter. The line is very high at both schools and is Ivy-level (even HYP level).

Except weighted GPA is not consistent across systems, so this makes no sense.

The line is not the same at each school. each private school has their own line. Both college counselors referenced this.

[Anonymous]

State schools really get very little funding from their states (but are expected/required to keep tuition low for residents). It's hard to blame them for taking as many higher paying OOS students as they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yield protection is the things of places like American and Elon. They will outright tell you that you have to show interest or they'll assume you're not serious about them.

Top schools don't need to yield protect.

The existence of ED says you’re wrong.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It was never supposed to be about attainable education. It was always supposed to be a place for the state’s top scholars.

NP here. I don't have a problem with this. I do wish they'd take more state students and fewer OOS to come into line with their peer public institutions.

Michigan is 50% OOS.

Well, shame on Michigan too!

The state of Michigan has 3,255 seniors scoring 1400+ on the SAT. The University of Michigan has 7,278 seats in the first year class. 50% in-state means there’s room for every Michigan resident who scores 1400+.

The state of Virginia has 5,061 seniors scoring 1400+ on the SAT. UVA has 3,961 seats in the first year class. Even if UVA was 100% in-state, there would not be room for every resident who scores 1400+.

But sure, shame on Michigan for providing enough seats to educate all qualified in-state students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't talk about UVA relative to state schools like Michigan and Georgia and ignore size.

Michigan has ~35k undergrads, with a state population of 10.14 million.

UGA has ~33k undergrads, with a population of 11.2 million.

UVA has ~17k undergrads, with a population of 8.8 million.

UVA is necessarily serving a smaller share of its population. Which is why there are so many high achieving Virginia students at W&M and Tech.

Half of Michigan undergraduates are from OOS. UNC has 21K undergraduates for 11.2M people. They are roughly comparable to UVA in terms of seats per person in state. If you compare to a school like UT Austin, even with 44K undergraduates, it has fewer seats per person because the state has over 31M people.

[Anonymous]

Hope your DC likes snow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was never supposed to be about attainable education. It was always supposed to be a place for the state’s top scholars.

NP here. I don't have a problem with this. I do wish they'd take more state students and fewer OOS to come into line with their peer public institutions.

Michigan is 50% OOS.

Well, shame on Michigan too!

The state of Michigan has 3,255 seniors scoring 1400+ on the SAT. The University of Michigan has 7,278 seats in the first year class. 50% in-state means there’s room for every Michigan resident who scores 1400+.

The state of Virginia has 5,061 seniors scoring 1400+ on the SAT. UVA has 3,961 seats in the first year class. Even if UVA was 100% in-state, there would not be room for every resident who scores 1400+.

But sure, shame on Michigan for providing enough seats to educate all qualified in-state students.

What I reject is your premise that in-state students must score 1400+ to be considered "qualified." Why shouldn't Michigan accept in-state students with less than a 1400?

I agree about UVA- way fewer students than seats available and understand it's not the University of Northern Virginia so students from NOVA are impacted. Why can't they admit more students from NOVA and take fewer OOS students?

[Anonymous]

All these states are test optional so the "qualified" pool is going to be larger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA holds an extremely high bar at DMV privates. At the private my kid graduated from last year every kid admitted to UVA EA or RD was also admitted to an Ivy and most of these were HYP.

Multiple kids were admitted to an Ivy and deferred/waitlisted by UVA.

That's crystal clear yield protection.

My kid is at a private and was accepted EA- so was older sib who is at an Ivy (accepted RD to Ivy and T10s).

The school scattergram is pretty clear. 4.4gpa at time of acceptance (end of jr year for ED/EA) for VA residents (most also have high scores, submitted test scores).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yield protection is the things of places like American and Elon. They will outright tell you that you have to show interest or they'll assume you're not serious about them.

Top schools don't need to yield protect.

The existence of ED says you’re wrong.

Not really. ED is different from EA and RD.

DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yield protection is the things of places like American and Elon. They will outright tell you that you have to show interest or they'll assume you're not serious about them.

Top schools don't need to yield protect.

The existence of ED says you’re wrong.

Not really. ED is different from EA and RD.

DP

Yeah, ED is different from EA and RD in the sense that the yield from ED is much higher. Ergo, ED is a form of yield protection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was never supposed to be about attainable education. It was always supposed to be a place for the state’s top scholars.

NP here. I don't have a problem with this. I do wish they'd take more state students and fewer OOS to come into line with their peer public institutions.

Michigan is 50% OOS.

Well, shame on Michigan too!

The state of Michigan has 3,255 seniors scoring 1400+ on the SAT. The University of Michigan has 7,278 seats in the first year class. 50% in-state means there’s room for every Michigan resident who scores 1400+.

The state of Virginia has 5,061 seniors scoring 1400+ on the SAT. UVA has 3,961 seats in the first year class. Even if UVA was 100% in-state, there would not be room for every resident who scores 1400+.

But sure, shame on Michigan for providing enough seats to educate all qualified in-state students.

What I reject is your premise that in-state students must score 1400+ to be considered "qualified." Why shouldn't Michigan accept in-state students with less than a 1400?

I agree about UVA- way fewer students than seats available and understand it's not the University of Northern Virginia so students from NOVA are impacted. Why can't they admit more students from NOVA and take fewer OOS students?

There's VT and W&M. They would want more applicants.

[Anonymous]

I think "top 20%" may be the problem. Chances are somewhat iffy below about top 5 - 7%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oy it isn't yield protection. UVA does not yield protect.

But it does take a lot of out-of-state students (a much higher percentage than comparable state schools). And it does feel a responsibility to limit how many students from Northern Virginia so that it can take some from the Rest of Virginia.

And it, of course, limits how many it takes from a particular high school in NOVA. These are not quotas or hard limits but they are a reality and it hurts TJ more than any other school, then probably the most high performing HS in Virginia (the McLeans and Langleys) and then of course the private high schools.

All of those schools have far more applicants who would likely be accepted if they were from Roanoke than those who actually get in.

In other words, it is not yield protection, it is that your peers are very strong. It feels unfair but that is the reality in a lot of schools.

Spot on. OP, why not just accept this common sense explanation? Why do you insist on making it into a conspiracy? Is your very accomplished kid so fragile that he or she can't handle one deferral?

DP. Don’t live in Virginia, didn’t apply to UVA, but kids getting in to HYP but not UVA seems like obvious yield protection to me.

In my opinion the burden is on the people saying that UVA doesn’t yield protect to show that UVA in-state has a lower admissions rate and a higher SAT range than HYP.

If you can’t show that, all this chatter about how UVA is actually, secretly, far more selective than any other school on earth is just nonsense.

DC’s classmate in at Yale but rejected UVA (from NoVA) is URM and didn’t have the highest stats especially for their HS. URM may be a bigger priority for Yale than UVA. That classmate got rejected from all other schools considered “peers” of Yale. This happens at all top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yield protection is the things of places like American and Elon. They will outright tell you that you have to show interest or they'll assume you're not serious about them.

Top schools don't need to yield protect.

The existence of ED says you’re wrong.

Not really. ED is different from EA and RD.

DP

Yeah, ED is different from EA and RD in the sense that the yield from ED is much higher. Ergo, ED is a form of yield protection.

You don't understand the definition of yield protection. ED is not yield protection.