11 year old vegan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty easy to find the recommended protein amounts online. And it's easy to track that. It's hard to get it through non-animal sources, but if she's committed to trying, then that will work. One issue is finding a tracking app that won't also track calories (which might tip into an ED at that age).

Iron is easy to supplement.

But I would worry about fats -- the brain is still growing at that age and needs a lot of fat. Avocado and olive oil only gets you so far. It would really help if you could get her to ask fish once or twice a week if she won't do eggs and yogurt.

It’s everywhere - nuts, soybeans, tofu, tempeh, quinoa, other whole grains, plenty of healthy fats and protein.

Yes, those things all have protein, but most of them don't have healthy fats. Nuts do (walnuts are high in omegas, which is good). This is why I said I would worry about fats, and would be very deliberate about making sure she's getting enough of those. Like saute stuff in olive oil instead of just eating it raw or baking it. Add walnuts and certain seeds to food regularly.
I would also be a little conscious about overdoing soy. Soy is an estrogen imitator. If you're eating it in normal whole food quantities, like edamame, it's not going to be a problem. But if you're eating a lot of soy-based products to hit your protein targets, like soy milk and supplements or protein bars or whatever, it might be an issue -- particularly for a girl.

I would also revisit the idea about eggs from ethical farms or neighbors. I bet you can find someone that doesn't cull the male chicks. My niece has a "farm" like that, but she's not local. Some vegans will also make an exception for bi-vavles like oysters -- they are really really beneficial to the environment, and they don't have a central nervous system. To me, they don't seem that different than eating a carrot, really.

Can you not see the harm in an 11 YO going down a rabbit hole with all of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"veganism has been associated with adverse health outcomes, namely, nervous, skeletal, and immune system impairments, hematological disorders, as well as mental health problems due to the potential for micro and macronutrient deficits. The goal of this review article is to discuss the current literature on the impact and long-term consequences of veganism on vulnerable populations, including children, adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women, and fetal outcomes in strict vegan mothers. It also focuses on the many deficiencies of the vegan diet, especially vitamin B12, and the related increased risk of malignancies."

"Additionally, vegans have a greater prevalence of mental health problems"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10027313/

You can absolutely cherry pick anything.

Twin research indicates that a vegan diet improves cardiovascular health
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-vegan-cardiovascular.html

There were 758 articles identified in the databases’ search and 21 SRs met inclusion criteria. SRs targeting the general population had primarily observational evidence. Vegetarian, including vegan, dietary patterns were associated with reduced risk for CVD incidence.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666667724002368?via%3Dihub

Diets Without Meat Outperform Omnivorous Diet on Multiple Mental Health Scores
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/diets-without-meat-outperform-omnivorous-diet-multiple-mental-health-scores#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20study%2C%20people%20who%20eat,and%20uncontrolled%20eating%20*%20Disordered%20eating%20behaviors

Predominantly plant-based or vegetarian diet linked to 39% lower odds of covid-19
https://bmjgroup.com/predominantly-plant-based-or-vegetarian-diet-linked-to-39-lower-odds-of-covid-19/#:~:text=After%20accounting%20for%20potentially%20influential,which%20are%20prone%20to%20error.

There is evidence indicating that a vegan diet could be beneficial in the prevention of neurodegenerative disorders, including Alzheimer’s disease.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9738978/

--Mostly vegan but occasionally eat meat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d do a lot of grain bowls that the family could customize to add extra protein of their choice. We do a great one with peanut sauce and tempeh or salmon that is always a crowd pleaser.

Moosewood cookbook lentil walnut burgers are really good and freeze well so you can reheat individual servings. You could do those with other burger or grilled meat sandwiches for the rest of the family.

Do you have a recipe for the grain bowl?

DP. Very easy.
--Base is quinoa, wild rice, brown rice, etc.
--Add cooked vegetable. (Easy to do this 1-2/week and refrigerate.) You can also add fresh vegetables/fruits like cucumbers in a bit of dressing, shaved carrots, tomatoes, olives.
--Add in greens and microgreens.
--Add in beans, nuts, and seeds.
--Add in any dressings, hummus, pesto.
--Add in an avocado for a healthy fat.
--If eating meat, add in shredded chicken, egg, or cheese.

Think CAVA bowl.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d do a lot of grain bowls that the family could customize to add extra protein of their choice. We do a great one with peanut sauce and tempeh or salmon that is always a crowd pleaser.

Moosewood cookbook lentil walnut burgers are really good and freeze well so you can reheat individual servings. You could do those with other burger or grilled meat sandwiches for the rest of the family.

Do you have a recipe for the grain bowl?

DP. Very easy.
--Base is quinoa, wild rice, brown rice, etc.
--Add cooked vegetable. (Easy to do this 1-2/week and refrigerate.) You can also add fresh vegetables/fruits like cucumbers in a bit of dressing, shaved carrots, tomatoes, olives.
--Add in greens and microgreens.
--Add in beans, nuts, and seeds.
--Add in any dressings, hummus, pesto.
--Add in an avocado for a healthy fat.
--If eating meat, add in shredded chicken, egg, or cheese.

Think CAVA bowl.

I was hoping for the specific recipe with the peanut sauce and tempeh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"veganism has been associated with adverse health outcomes, namely, nervous, skeletal, and immune system impairments, hematological disorders, as well as mental health problems due to the potential for micro and macronutrient deficits. The goal of this review article is to discuss the current literature on the impact and long-term consequences of veganism on vulnerable populations, including children, adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women, and fetal outcomes in strict vegan mothers. It also focuses on the many deficiencies of the vegan diet, especially vitamin B12, and the related increased risk of malignancies."

"Additionally, vegans have a greater prevalence of mental health problems"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10027313/

You can absolutely cherry pick anything.

Twin research indicates that a vegan diet improves cardiovascular health
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-vegan-cardiovascular.html

There were 758 articles identified in the databases’ search and 21 SRs met inclusion criteria. SRs targeting the general population had primarily observational evidence. Vegetarian, including vegan, dietary patterns were associated with reduced risk for CVD incidence.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666667724002368?via%3Dihub

Diets Without Meat Outperform Omnivorous Diet on Multiple Mental Health Scores
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/diets-without-meat-outperform-omnivorous-diet-multiple-mental-health-scores#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20study%2C%20people%20who%20eat,and%20uncontrolled%20eating%20*%20Disordered%20eating%20behaviors

Predominantly plant-based or vegetarian diet linked to 39% lower odds of covid-19
https://bmjgroup.com/predominantly-plant-based-or-vegetarian-diet-linked-to-39-lower-odds-of-covid-19/#:~:text=After%20accounting%20for%20potentially%20influential,which%20are%20prone%20to%20error.

There is evidence indicating that a vegan diet could be beneficial in the prevention of neurodegenerative disorders, including Alzheimer’s disease.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9738978/

--Mostly vegan but occasionally eat meat

Vegetarian is not unhealthy.

Vegan is very unhealthy for children and young teens entering into puberty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

[Anonymous]

Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

I’m going to call out OP for pushing this on her 11 YO daughter. Shane on you OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

OP here,

I thought that had been debunked a long time ago, but I reviewed the literature again. It has been debunked. Looking at sources online that I consider reputable, what I see is that phytoestrogens are different from the kind of estrogen in humans, and don't pose a risk.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28838083/ (Soy does not have short term negative impact on adolescents, and long term can be linked to reduction in breast cancer rates)

https://nutrition.org/eating-more-soy-foods-could-improve-thinking-and-attention-in-kids/ (Eating more soy could improve thinking and attention in kids)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/nutrition-for-kids/art-20049335 (Includes soy foods in it's recommendation for children's diets)

What I see says that foods that contain the whole soybean (edamame, tofu, soymilk) are safe healthy choices that may have some protective factors, particularly against breast cancer later. Fermented soy (miso, tempeh) has particular benefits.

Soy sauce, soy oil, and soy protein isolate have issues, but those issues seem to be consistent with other similar foods, and come from the salt, fat and ultraprocessing.

Infant soy formula is a different issue, and not relevant to my 11 year old.

Given that I continue to feel safe with a few servings a day of edamame, tofu, tempeh, or soy curls, and using miso regularly.

We don't do protein powders, or protein bars, or shakes.

We've also chosen other plant milks than soy just to vary the protein in her diet.

We do like soy sauce, but that's not something we added to our diets due to veganism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

I’m going to call out OP for pushing this on her 11 YO daughter. Shane on you OP.

Where do you see that I am pushing it. I'm explaining what she told me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

Someone should alert Asia!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d do a lot of grain bowls that the family could customize to add extra protein of their choice. We do a great one with peanut sauce and tempeh or salmon that is always a crowd pleaser.

Moosewood cookbook lentil walnut burgers are really good and freeze well so you can reheat individual servings. You could do those with other burger or grilled meat sandwiches for the rest of the family.

Do you have a recipe for the grain bowl?

DP. Very easy.
--Base is quinoa, wild rice, brown rice, etc.
--Add cooked vegetable. (Easy to do this 1-2/week and refrigerate.) You can also add fresh vegetables/fruits like cucumbers in a bit of dressing, shaved carrots, tomatoes, olives.
--Add in greens and microgreens.
--Add in beans, nuts, and seeds.
--Add in any dressings, hummus, pesto.
--Add in an avocado for a healthy fat.
--If eating meat, add in shredded chicken, egg, or cheese.

Think CAVA bowl.

I was hoping for the specific recipe with the peanut sauce and tempeh.

Do some work yourself, OP, geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

Someone should alert Asia!!!

And 2015.