where would Williams and Amherst rank in the ivy league..

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sure, I guess. But with such extraordinarily selective schools, who really cares?

Williams and Amherst, and many other SLACS, are fantastic schools but they would rank lower than any of the Ivies in a head to head competition due to the lack of comparable science and engineering resources. They aren't really comparable which is why they are separately ranked.

Yes, and they would beat the Ivies for quality of UG education. Agree they are apples and oranges.

You sound unhinged.

I don’t even agree with the previous comment but nothing about it was unhinged. So weird how people just throw this term around for anything.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

I did my undergrad at a public and went to an Ivy for grad school. It's not a guess at all.

My kid goes to Penn and doesn’t get taught by tas almost ever. When were you last at Penn? This has not been his experience and seems purposefully distorted.

So we know your kid is in the humanities, okay.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:if you are an athlete at Williams, there is no stronger alumni group on the planet

+100 Same goes for pretty much any top NESCAC and that drives the Ivy strivers insane. Poor Larlo bends themselves unnaturally to please parents and get into an Ivy and is confronted with the reality that NESCACs (and a few others) and especially NESCAC athletics is where the real advantages exist.

this is discussed with parents at our DCUM private - that athletics can open huge doors at the SLACs, with a much more balanced approach than the ivies. I was shocked by rhe outcomes and job placements the top SLAC coaches referenced during my DCs recruiting cycle.

Shocked how? Are they all Econ majors…

They are mostly econ majors yes.

So what was shocking.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

I did my undergrad at a public and went to an Ivy for grad school. It's not a guess at all.

My kid goes to Penn and doesn’t get taught by tas almost ever. When were you last at Penn? This has not been his experience and seems purposefully distorted.

So we know your kid is in the humanities, okay.

He does mathematics…? What is going on with the parents here?

[Anonymous]

A lot of misinformation being thrown around about the ivies by presumably butthurt lac parents.

[Anonymous]

Is this before or after Ivies started slashing staff positions, doctoral admissions, and lab research?

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/10/10/seas-staff-25-percent-layoffs/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

I did my undergrad at a public and went to an Ivy for grad school. It's not a guess at all.

My kid goes to Penn and doesn’t get taught by tas almost ever. When were you last at Penn? This has not been his experience and seems purposefully distorted.

I didn't go to Penn, I went to an different Ivy for grad school. If your kid was a STEM major or at Wharton they were mostly taught by TAs for their first two years even if a professor delivered the lecture. For upper division classes they would be taught by mostly Assistant Professors and ABD PHD students teaching seminars but they will have opportunities to take classes from Tenured Faculty as well. It's not a bad education at a top Private but it isn't the exclusively taught by Professors environment experienced by those at top SLACs. If I knew at 16 what I know know I would have tried to go to a good SLAC if I could have found a way to afford it. My own experience is proof that you can get it done from any undergraduate path but I do think that some are better than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of misinformation being thrown around about the ivies by presumably butthurt lac parents.

Like what?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

I have a kid at Yale (freshman) and Wiliams (junior) so maybe I can speak about this a little. They're both terrific.

Yale has more of a wow factor when you talk to your friends. No doubt. And they have big name speakers on campus every week. I like what a bigger school provides ie more dining options etc, but that's not a Yale thing. Would have been more food options are Syracuse etc. The kids are happy, lots of connections if you want them, lots to do on weekends (although more frat life than I realized)

The downside is the very competitive club culture. If you get into the top finance (theater, law, political, improv black) etc club, then you're on easy street. But the top finance club takes 12 kids (per year) and 2000 applied this year. So you try to get into the top 3 clubs and that can be hard too. My kid was applying to clubs nonstop and got into a good one and a couple okay ones. It's competitive. You have to be good at xyz if you want to get into the xyz club.

Williams can be an unknown to your friends, but not employers. Fewer resources on campus, fewer big names, fewer dining halls, fewer parties on weekends (but there are some, every weekend) and you're tucked away for a long winter. Those are the downsides. Upsides: more of a personal connection to teacher (ie they make calls for you). There are a ton of nepo kids there which has been an upside -- roomies dad can get you a summer gig at Blackstone. And the alumni network is very receptive. Reaching out to a rando on LinkedIn who went to yale would be weird. at Williams, totally normal. Also, you can do ANYTHING. Never done improv, who cares. Never looked at a P&L statement, you can do the January term at a hedge fund and get an internship from that.

They're very different with different ways of accessing opportunities. But both great.

So, in many words, Yale is a lot better experience than Williams. Kids can’t definitely reach out to Yale alum, particularly for referrals. That’s a normal thing at any school. Winter study seems to just be a “laughable” experience, according to Williams faculty, https://williamsrecord.com/465133/news/college-to-reevaluate-winter-study-in-the-face-of-faculty-discontent/

It honestly sounds like there aren’t resources at Williams if you have to rely on your roommate to get a job. I think it’s great and all to do improv club, but that can be done at a community college.

I'm sorry I've painted that picture if that's what you got out of it. But I'm not going to invest more time though so I'll leave you with your thoughts.. Both my kids are happy! Kid at Williams already has a summer internship at Jane Street (via on campus recruiting). Kid at Yale super happy too. Neither of my kids did improv - but looks fun.

There are 5 Williams college alum at Jane Street according to LinkedIn. This seems…doubtful at best.

NP not sure if you know how campus recurring works (or how LinkedIn works), but you dont have to be a college alumni to recruit on campus.

Williams has very strong placement in finance, IB, etc.

Here's a williams kid who did a Jane street internship (oct 25)
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQSjhddjZMw/

Williams is sometimes called "The west point of Wall Street". you can google this.

Or look up outcomes on Wall Street Oasis (founded by a williams alum)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

HYP grad here. You?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

I did my undergrad at a public and went to an Ivy for grad school. It's not a guess at all.

My kid goes to Penn and doesn’t get taught by tas almost ever. When were you last at Penn? This has not been his experience and seems purposefully distorted.

So we know your kid is in the humanities, okay.

He does mathematics…? What is going on with the parents here?

The whole “your kid is only taught by TAs” is just a lazy but common trope from LAC boosters here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of misinformation being thrown around about the ivies by presumably butthurt lac parents.

butt hurt is such a DCUM phrase. same people mad about "the woke" and "snowflakes" while at the same time go batshit crazy when they hear the name Lina Khan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

I did my undergrad at a public and went to an Ivy for grad school. It's not a guess at all.

My kid goes to Penn and doesn’t get taught by tas almost ever. When were you last at Penn? This has not been his experience and seems purposefully distorted.

I didn't go to Penn, I went to a different Ivy for grad school. If your kid was a STEM major or at Wharton they were mostly taught by TAs for their first two years even if a professor delivered the lecture. For upper division classes they would be taught by mostly Assistant Professors and ABD PHD students teaching seminars but they will have opportunities to take classes from Tenured Faculty as well. It's not a bad education at a top Private but it isn't the exclusively taught by Professors environment experienced by those at top SLACs. If I knew at 16 what I know know I would have tried to go to a good SLAC if I could have found a way to afford it. My own experience is proof that you can get it done from any undergraduate path but I do think that some are better than others.

A few things.

Lecture being taught by professor means you are being taught by a professor.

Many LACs hire adjunct faculty who are ABD to teach, particularly outside of their “leading” programs in Math, Economics, or Government.

Going through Penn’s physics course catalog for upper division courses, most classes are taught by tenure track faculty- a majority already tenured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

You have to be out of your mind if you think that top SLAC students don't get summer opportunities equal to those at ivies. Often they do research at Ivies, taking seats that I am sure some Ivy parent felt belonged to their child. My kid did a research summer at Penn. She got it because a Penn reached out to her inquiring about interest. They reached out because their SLAC professor got their PHD at Penn and they sent an unsolicited email suggesting my kid. That is what you get at a top SLAC.

Or you could go to Penn and get these offers all the time.

Probably not because you were taught by a TA who really didn't care and the professor doesn't know you or really care to. But that same professor will do a solid for a former star from their lab.

Oh, so you’re just jealous and couldn’t get into an Ivy. It’s really embarrassing seeing people guess the experiences at these colleges and be so far off.

I did my undergrad at a public and went to an Ivy for grad school. It's not a guess at all.

My kid goes to Penn and doesn’t get taught by tas almost ever. When were you last at Penn? This has not been his experience and seems purposefully distorted.

So we know your kid is in the humanities, okay.

He does mathematics…? What is going on with the parents here?

The whole “your kid is only taught by TAs” is just a lazy but common trope from LAC boosters here.

From a poster who attended neither an Ivy nor a LAC, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of misinformation being thrown around about the ivies by presumably butthurt lac parents.

butt hurt is such a DCUM phrase. same people mad about "the woke" and "snowflakes" while at the same time go batshit crazy when they hear the name Lina Khan.

For every Lina khan there are at least 300 Harvard/yale alum in high positions in government