where would Williams and Amherst rank in the ivy league..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every other post in this forum is now about college rankings/tiers. It is tiresome.

Yeah, but see, my school is better than your school.

[Anonymous]

You can keep them all. They pandered for years to the wrong groups of people and it is all coming to roost, while they turned most of their backs to those who gave them so much over many generations. Education and higher learning is to accomplish one thing to teach students, conduct research for the greater good of society, not take a name off a building because of new social norms and perceived pains, or most importantly that intuitions do not fall victim to Marx’s revolutionary consciousness. If you don’t see the paradox you have put your children in chasing these names the opium has worked.

[Anonymous]

Williams and Amherst are true dedicated liberal arts colleges.

They are great preparation for grad schools in many areas, including law, but probably not advanced sciences. Williams, for example, is known for sending swaths of graduates into being custodians of the greater art and history museums.

Amherst was my son’s first choice but towards September they didn’t recruit him, and he ended up going to Williams instead.

They’re not lesser than the Ivies, except in size and disciplines, they are just different.

To this day when I say he went to Williams college a whole lot of people still pause and have no idea what college that is. There’s a pause and something like, “well, you know, at least he went somewhere” … they just don’t know what it is.

They usually have heard of Amherst because it’s … a town in Massachusetts

[Anonymous]

The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Williams and Amherst are true dedicated liberal arts colleges.

They are great preparation for grad schools in many areas, including law, but probably not advanced sciences. Williams, for example, is known for sending swaths of graduates into being custodians of the greater art and history museums.

Amherst was my son’s first choice but towards September they didn’t recruit him, and he ended up going to Williams instead.

They’re not lesser than the Ivies, except in size and disciplines, they are just different.

To this day when I say he went to Williams college a whole lot of people still pause and have no idea what college that is. There’s a pause and something like, “well, you know, at least he went somewhere” … they just don’t know what it is.

They usually have heard of Amherst because it’s … a town in Massachusetts

The Williams art history mafia bs is tiring. A bunch of old alum succeeded, but it really isn’t indicative of the new crop of grads.

[Anonymous]

Someone please create the definitive rankings of fruits and vegetables. Don’t worry about the fact that individuals have different taste buds and nutritional needs and lifestyles and health goals. Just create a definitive ordinal ranking.

Then rank churches in the DMV.
Then makes of cars.
Then works of literature.

Do not ask “best for whom? Under what circumstance? To accomplish what?” No such questions allowed. Nuance shall not be tolerated. Raw numbers only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure, I guess. But with such extraordinarily selective schools, who really cares?

This.

WHO

CARES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

+1, go to an lac if all you care about is class and a small extracurricular. If you’re generally looking for the next opportunity and want to lead, look towards the ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can keep them all. They pandered for years to the wrong groups of people and it is all coming to roost, while they turned most of their backs to those who gave them so much over many generations. Education and higher learning is to accomplish one thing to teach students, conduct research for the greater good of society, not take a name off a building because of new social norms and perceived pains, or most importantly that intuitions do not fall victim to Marx’s revolutionary consciousness. If you don’t see the paradox you have put your children in chasing these names the opium has worked.

what's "coming to roost"? their apps are sky high, their admission rate it super low. williams has an endowment that is more per student than most of the ivy league and their enrollment is under the 3k cap so their finances are unchanged even in the trump era

[Anonymous]

Seems like a pretty meh experience at these top lacs: https://hcspectator.com/2934/news/does-hamilton-prepare-all-of-its-majors-for-success-no-or-at-least-not-always/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how would you rank overall based on the following - overall prestige, quality of undergraduate instruction, outcomes, quality of life, social. I’d wedge them in as follows:
Harvard, Yale, Princeton > Williams > Columbia, Dartmouth > Amherst > Brown, Cornell

Low class immigrant striver question. Get a life. Your kid belongs at a tier 3 state school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can keep them all. They pandered for years to the wrong groups of people and it is all coming to roost, while they turned most of their backs to those who gave them so much over many generations. Education and higher learning is to accomplish one thing to teach students, conduct research for the greater good of society, not take a name off a building because of new social norms and perceived pains, or most importantly that intuitions do not fall victim to Marx’s revolutionary consciousness. If you don’t see the paradox you have put your children in chasing these names the opium has worked.

what's "coming to roost"? their apps are sky high, their admission rate it super low. williams has an endowment that is more per student than most of the ivy league and their enrollment is under the 3k cap so their finances are unchanged even in the trump era

If Williams accepted as many people as Harvard; it’d have a 13-14% acceptance rate. Williams has a terrible yield rate and 1/5 the applications. I don’t find having a small acceptance rate when your school is tiny impressive. The only thing true about your post is it has money- a lot of it, but that doesn’t equal opportunities. Harvard students, hell Dartmouth students, have access to a lot more opportunities from the institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The opportunities are nowhere near competitive enough. DD was able to work at Yale law during the summer and get funding to examine legal theory across 5 different countries with an experienced, decorated law faculty member. During the school year, she has a grant to do bioethics policy work with a New York think tank that reached out to Yale for students, leads a club where she’s able to invite major speakers in ethics and other philosophy faculty, and was able to take a course in the SOM to fulfill her interest in bioethics. At Williams, she could’ve gone to class and taken a wide range of philosophy courses unrelated to her interest and maybe joined/started a club.

Her friends at LACs are academically impressive but that’s about it. They don’t have the experiences that signal impact. At best, they can get into an REU hosted at an institution like my daughters.

I have a kid at Yale (freshman) and Wiliams (junior) so maybe I can speak about this a little. They're both terrific.

Yale has more of a wow factor when you talk to your friends. No doubt. And they have big name speakers on campus every week. I like what a bigger school provides ie more dining options etc, but that's not a Yale thing. Would have been more food options are Syracuse etc. The kids are happy, lots of connections if you want them, lots to do on weekends (although more frat life than I realized)

The downside is the very competitive club culture. If you get into the top finance (theater, law, political, improv black) etc club, then you're on easy street. But the top finance club takes 12 kids (per year) and 2000 applied this year. So you try to get into the top 3 clubs and that can be hard too. My kid was applying to clubs nonstop and got into a good one and a couple okay ones. It's competitive. You have to be good at xyz if you want to get into the xyz club.

Williams can be an unknown to your friends, but not employers. Fewer resources on campus, fewer big names, fewer dining halls, fewer parties on weekends (but there are some, every weekend) and you're tucked away for a long winter. Those are the downsides. Upsides: more of a personal connection to teacher (ie they make calls for you). There are a ton of nepo kids there which has been an upside -- roomies dad can get you a summer gig at Blackstone. And the alumni network is very receptive. Reaching out to a rando on LinkedIn who went to yale would be weird. at Williams, totally normal. Also, you can do ANYTHING. Never done improv, who cares. Never looked at a P&L statement, you can do the January term at a hedge fund and get an internship from that.

They're very different with different ways of accessing opportunities. But both great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can keep them all. They pandered for years to the wrong groups of people and it is all coming to roost, while they turned most of their backs to those who gave them so much over many generations. Education and higher learning is to accomplish one thing to teach students, conduct research for the greater good of society, not take a name off a building because of new social norms and perceived pains, or most importantly that intuitions do not fall victim to Marx’s revolutionary consciousness. If you don’t see the paradox you have put your children in chasing these names the opium has worked.

what's "coming to roost"? their apps are sky high, their admission rate it super low. williams has an endowment that is more per student than most of the ivy league and their enrollment is under the 3k cap so their finances are unchanged even in the trump era

If Williams accepted as many people as Harvard; it’d have a 13-14% acceptance rate. Williams has a terrible yield rate and 1/5 the applications. I don’t find having a small acceptance rate when your school is tiny impressive. The only thing true about your post is it has money- a lot of it, but that doesn’t equal opportunities. Harvard students, hell Dartmouth students, have access to a lot more opportunities from the institution.

this is like saying, if Harvard had as many applicants at UCLA, it would have well over a 20% acceptance rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, I guess. But with such extraordinarily selective schools, who really cares?

Williams and Amherst, and many other SLACS, are fantastic schools but they would rank lower than any of the Ivies in a head to head competition due to the lack of comparable science and engineering resources. They aren't really comparable which is why they are separately ranked.

Ranked like for like and the top SLACS give no ground to any Ivy. However, it is a subset of what is available at a R1.