where would Williams and Amherst rank in the ivy league..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a real difference btw Williams and Amherst these days. Am I the only one? Put Pomona with Williams and I'd have no argument.

You might not have an argument but if you believe that either of those schools are better than the others you are delusional

better than what others? certainly as selective as Dartmouth. for humanities, better than Cornell.

better than the other SLACS? Swat is a great school, I just think the school experience is tough. It's a grind. I think Amherst has several issues. Bowdoin is very strong and it's hot now. Middlbury is good at some things, but their outcomes if you want finance are excellent (better than Dartmouth)

not better in outcomes or opportunities than HYP, but nobody is saying that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the top 10-15 SLACs (remove military academies), the kids are Ivy-smart but more interesting, more academic, and less performative than the Ivy kids. Together, that puts all these colleges above the Ivies for an undergraduate experience.

Ivies excel at graduate and professional school. Did you know that most of Harvard’s endowment contributions come from HBS and HLS, not the plain undergraduates?

This is an optimistic take. I don't think students at Vassar and Hamilton are the same as those that choose Princeton and Yale.

For bright non-STEM students, Williams and Pomona definitely compete with top 20 schools for students. And Bowdoin sometimes too. Harvey Mudd will get good STEM kids that want the SLAC experience. But otherwise? These are different student populations.

And no one knows what Amherst is doing these days. Seems to be FGLI and rich prep schools today. So hard divides with no attempt to make a coherent whole. I wouldn't put Amherst in any kind of category today.

Pomona is nothing special relative to any of 9 or 10 other SLACs. Neither is Bow, Williams, or Amherst.

Applicants the last several cycles apparently disagree. Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin are largely alike. Swat has its own niche. Pomona has the luxury of not having to compete with anyone.

[Anonymous]

+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

I agree that Amherst seems to be a bit out of favor. We toured and my kid didn't like it at all. She is at on of the schools discussed in this thread and was admitted at a couple of the others. But I don't think that they have dropped out of the top bucket of 8-10 schools which are the equal to any schools including the Ivies. Columbia is a bit out of favor as well but only the nonsense crew speaks like they have dropped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goldwater Scholars count over last 5 years:

Amherst 11
Williams 5
Harvard 21
Hopkins 20
MIT 19
Columbia 23

A school can only nominate 4 applicants per year so again size does not matter.


Past 5 Years:

William and Mary 10
UVA 9
VT 9
Berkeley 8

The only logical conclusion is Berkeley sucks at STEM. . .

Been watching this for days......

NewsFlash!

Nobody gives a rats ass about Goldwater scholars. They have nothing to do with school quality or any of this ranking nonsense.

And, nobody cares about USMAO either

It also tells us nothing about the quality of the school but says much about yourself, but not anything good.

Same goes for Apkers They're cool but say nothing about a school. A kid from Houghton won a few years ago in 2021 it was Kutztown and UMass-Boston. None of those awards resulted in a new deluge of applications to the new 'it' school for Physics.

So Please, just calm down and go back to arguing about whether or not top SLACs are the equals of the Ivies.

I imagine the students who went through the Goldwater process probably thought it was worthwhile. Money + a leg up on graduate school admissions.

I imagine that they do, it is a great prize. But to somehow equate any of these individual awards to school rankings and equality is beyond stupid. There have been Goldwater winners with B average GPAs.

There have been Goldwater winners with B average GPAs.

Cite some. You won't because you are full of shit.

That is easy, last line on the eligibility page. You might want to do a better job at hiding your stupidity.

"In recent Goldwater competitions, GPAs have ranged from 3.15 to 4.95 on a 4.00 scale."

https://goldwaterscholarship.gov/eligibility/

Also, the award is great recognition for the winners but has zero reflection on the school itself. Whoever added "The Goldwater" to this thread obviously had no clue as to what they were actually talking about. They truly had their heads stuck up their ass because they were so desperate to "prove" that the Ivies are better than the top SLACs (NewsFlash, they aren't) by pulling out an award won by a kid at Pasadena City College, Louisiana Ag & Tech, CUNY Borough of Manhattan Community College, and Grand Valley State University as a point of Ivy superiority.

If I, someone from a non-selective public can whack you (and this subject) around so easily I shudder to think about what a kid from Williams would do to you. They would most definitely eat.

Don't wrench your shoulder trying to pat yourself on the back. The text you referred citing a minimum of 3.0 GPA was in the eligibility section as in the minimum to be eligible for a Goldwater nomination. It did not say anything about winners. Winners typically have much higher GPAs between 3.7 and 4.0.

The quote I provided is the meaningful part, but you skipped that because it doesn't fit your narrative. The bottom line of the page is the quote which is actual information. You realize the problem with your use of "typical" or do you need some help? And you ignored the schools cited as examples because they do not fit your narrative. You've got yourself in a tough spot right now. I would suggest that you just bow out.

It isn't the meaningful part. It is the minimum GPA to be able to apply. Successful applicants have much higher GPA. For instance successful Yale applicants have a 3.9+ GPA and successful Cornell applicants have had a 3.8+ GPA.

https://experience.cornell.edu/opportunities/goldwater-scholarship/requirements

https://yale.communityforce.com/Funds/FundDetails.aspx?766C425A624C4C6E304249493146796170505248392B6A6E464B4B2B49595272335A36706342376C324F7538356B786B3742456D3950714C4941642F70544235#:~:text=Special%20Eligibility%20Requirements:,Yale%20Goldwater%20Scholars%20is%203.9+.&text=In%20selecting%20the%20award%20recipients,not%20a%20criterion%20for%20selection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

The other problem with Amherst — albeit a great school — is it takes a a back seat to Williams generally, and takes a back seat to Swat for the intellectual types. At this point, it is really between Williams and Pomona (kind of like Harvard and Stanford) and Amherst is, well, Yale. (OP is dated on this.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goldwater Scholars count over last 5 years:

Amherst 11
Williams 5
Harvard 21
Hopkins 20
MIT 19
Columbia 23

A school can only nominate 4 applicants per year so again size does not matter.


Past 5 Years:

William and Mary 10
UVA 9
VT 9
Berkeley 8

The only logical conclusion is Berkeley sucks at STEM. . .

Been watching this for days......

NewsFlash!

Nobody gives a rats ass about Goldwater scholars. They have nothing to do with school quality or any of this ranking nonsense.

And, nobody cares about USMAO either

It also tells us nothing about the quality of the school but says much about yourself, but not anything good.

Same goes for Apkers They're cool but say nothing about a school. A kid from Houghton won a few years ago in 2021 it was Kutztown and UMass-Boston. None of those awards resulted in a new deluge of applications to the new 'it' school for Physics.

So Please, just calm down and go back to arguing about whether or not top SLACs are the equals of the Ivies.

I imagine the students who went through the Goldwater process probably thought it was worthwhile. Money + a leg up on graduate school admissions.

I imagine that they do, it is a great prize. But to somehow equate any of these individual awards to school rankings and equality is beyond stupid. There have been Goldwater winners with B average GPAs.

There have been Goldwater winners with B average GPAs.

Cite some. You won't because you are full of shit.

That is easy, last line on the eligibility page. You might want to do a better job at hiding your stupidity.

"In recent Goldwater competitions, GPAs have ranged from 3.15 to 4.95 on a 4.00 scale."

https://goldwaterscholarship.gov/eligibility/

Also, the award is great recognition for the winners but has zero reflection on the school itself. Whoever added "The Goldwater" to this thread obviously had no clue as to what they were actually talking about. They truly had their heads stuck up their ass because they were so desperate to "prove" that the Ivies are better than the top SLACs (NewsFlash, they aren't) by pulling out an award won by a kid at Pasadena City College, Louisiana Ag & Tech, CUNY Borough of Manhattan Community College, and Grand Valley State University as a point of Ivy superiority.

If I, someone from a non-selective public can whack you (and this subject) around so easily I shudder to think about what a kid from Williams would do to you. They would most definitely eat.

Don't wrench your shoulder trying to pat yourself on the back. The text you referred citing a minimum of 3.0 GPA was in the eligibility section as in the minimum to be eligible for a Goldwater nomination. It did not say anything about winners. Winners typically have much higher GPAs between 3.7 and 4.0.

The quote I provided is the meaningful part, but you skipped that because it doesn't fit your narrative. The bottom line of the page is the quote which is actual information. You realize the problem with your use of "typical" or do you need some help? And you ignored the schools cited as examples because they do not fit your narrative. You've got yourself in a tough spot right now. I would suggest that you just bow out.

It isn't the meaningful part. It is the minimum GPA to be able to apply. Successful applicants have much higher GPA. For instance successful Yale applicants have a 3.9+ GPA and successful Cornell applicants have had a 3.8+ GPA.

https://experience.cornell.edu/opportunities/goldwater-scholarship/requirements

https://yale.communityforce.com/Funds/FundDetails.aspx?766C425A624C4C6E304249493146796170505248392B6A6E464B4B2B49595272335A36706342376C324F7538356B786B3742456D3950714C4941642F70544235#:~:text=Special%20Eligibility%20Requirements:,Yale%20Goldwater%20Scholars%20is%203.9+.&text=In%20selecting%20the%20award%20recipients,not%20a%20criterion%20for%20selection.

It is the meaningful part, you are uncomfortable that reality doesn't align with your perception. You are also struggling with basic English words like "average". You would understand the meaning of this word if you attended a SLAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

I’m trying to follow where anyone said this. It sounds like you just wanted to post this random accomplishment to boost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

The other problem with Amherst — albeit a great school — is it takes a a back seat to Williams generally, and takes a back seat to Swat for the intellectual types. At this point, it is really between Williams and Pomona (kind of like Harvard and Stanford) and Amherst is, well, Yale. (OP is dated on this.)

Knock it off with the Pomona boosting. Pomona isn't better than Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wellesley, Swat, or even it's next door neighbor CMC. The only thing that Pomona has going for it is location. If it wasn't for their location they would be another Grinnell (also a great school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

The other problem with Amherst — albeit a great school — is it takes a a back seat to Williams generally, and takes a back seat to Swat for the intellectual types. At this point, it is really between Williams and Pomona (kind of like Harvard and Stanford) and Amherst is, well, Yale. (OP is dated on this.)

Knock it off with the Pomona boosting. Pomona isn't better than Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wellesley, Swat, or even its next door neighbor CMC. The only thing that Pomona has going for it is location. If it wasn't for their location they would be another Grinnell (also a great school).

Yeah, Pomona does not care what you think — any more than Stanford would. Just pointing out the reality of SLAC admissions these days. Have fun applying ED to Midd!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

My kid is a student there and, yes, the demographics are a little skewed. But 45% are NARPs and she is perfectly happy. Her roommate is Questbridge and they are good friends. Not sure why that would be an issue. She entered with perfect stats and is hard core STEM, has little overlap with the athletes in coursework. But socially she feels it's a nice, chill vibe and kids seem to get along fine. It was her favorite visit by a mile, with Pomona and Carleton a close second. She didn't didn't like the vibe at Williams or Swarthmore, so didn't apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

My kid is a student there and, yes, the demographics are a little skewed. But 45% are NARPs and she is perfectly happy. Her roommate is Questbridge and they are good friends. Not sure why that would be an issue. She entered with perfect stats and is hard core STEM, has little overlap with the athletes in coursework. But socially she feels it's a nice, chill vibe and kids seem to get along fine. It was her favorite visit by a mile, with Pomona and Carleton a close second. She didn't didn't like the vibe at Williams or Swarthmore, so didn't apply.

I assume she did not get in to Pomona?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 on Amherst being out of favor with kids now. My kids, who toured Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Midd, Williams - and Pomona actually -- didn't even tour Amherst. I know some kids who matched via Questbridge from their HS, but otherwise not popular

Yeah, 7% acceptance rate (lower than Williams) definitely suggests a school that is out of favor. Oh, and for sure the students can't get into strong doctoral programs.

"Recently, two Amherst astronomers, a professor and recent graduate, helped to unveil a cold, chaotic exoplanet using NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Webb Telescope.

Daniella C Bardalez Gagliuffi, PhD, assistant professor of astronomy, and William Balmer ’21, a graduate student at The Johns Hopkins University, joined an international team that captured an image of 14 Herculis c, a massive, cold exoplanet with a unique orbit and unexpected atmospheric behavior. https://bit.ly/3LczTXp"

The problem w Amherst imo is it's got more athletes (40%) and more Questbridge (at just over 10% now) than any other in this group. Plus 2.5% are posse, plus international, plus vets. They've done this to themselves. Very barbell. Not rich and poor but jock and poor.

My kid is a student there and, yes, the demographics are a little skewed. But 45% are NARPs and she is perfectly happy. Her roommate is Questbridge and they are good friends. Not sure why that would be an issue. She entered with perfect stats and is hard core STEM, has little overlap with the athletes in coursework. But socially she feels it's a nice, chill vibe and kids seem to get along fine. It was her favorite visit by a mile, with Pomona and Carleton a close second. She didn't didn't like the vibe at Williams or Swarthmore, so didn't apply.

I assume she did not get in to Pomona?

What part of Amherst was her first choice did you not grasp? She applied ED.